What are my chances for T20? 159/3.97 Forum

[bouquetofcringe]

Interested in health law, went to UCLA for my undergrad, and just started writing my diversity statement I was low income growing up and immigrated to the US with my family, became a US citizen after 16 years, but I am non-URM.
159 LSAT waiting on Nov LSAT score but ideally want to apply at a T20 soon and possibly ED at BU. I was considering BU, WashU, UCLA, USC along with some other schools but I don't believe I can get into a T14. What are my chances or best course of action? Thanks in advance!

[crazywafflez]

I know it is tough to hear, but you'll need to retake to get any of these schools most likely. You have a stellar GPA. If you retake and get a 167+ you are getting into these schools and scholarships at some of them.
What are your goals? Biglaw? Public interest? This could determine a good range/score for you. Are you geographically flexible or you looking to go to Cali? A 159 bars you from most of these schools, and even if you got in you'd be going hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.
You really need to retake and reapply. Sit out the cycle and see how things go if your LSAT does not improve; retake it in Feb and reapply next September/October.

[bouquetofcringe]

I know it is tough to hear, but you'll need to retake to get any of these schools most likely. You have a stellar GPA. If you retake and get a 167+ you are getting into these schools and scholarships at some of them.
What are your goals? Biglaw? Public interest? This could determine a good range/score for you. Are you geographically flexible or you looking to go to Cali? A 159 bars you from most of these schools, and even if you got in you'd be going hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.
You really need to retake and reapply. Sit out the cycle and see how things go if your LSAT does not improve; retake it in Feb and reapply next September/October.

I sat out a cycle and reapplied this year, at this point I took the test 5 times though the two LSAT flexes over the summer didn't count to my limit. I was getting into the 164-165s during my timed PTs and 174 after blind review, however I experienced so many proctor connection issues from the July LSAT flex-November LSAT flex and during my November LSAT in 2019 my proctor was almost kicked out by campus security and uploaded the wrong test onto half of the takers tablets. This really aggravated my test taking anxiety so unfortunately I feel like I have to go with the 159 and maybe ED BU? I am in Cali currently, but not looking to stay here. I am interested in Health Law.

[goldenflash19]

Retake State should be your target school.

In all seriousness, I had near-identical numbers to yours after my first take. I wanted to go to law school on that score, but this site convinced me to retake. I eventually took it 4 times (back when you had to wait 2 years between 3 successive takes) and finally got my score on the 4th try. I went to YHS after that, all because people here convinced me to retake.

[crazywafflez]

I know it is tough to hear, but you'll need to retake to get any of these schools most likely. You have a stellar GPA. If you retake and get a 167+ you are getting into these schools and scholarships at some of them.
What are your goals? Biglaw? Public interest? This could determine a good range/score for you. Are you geographically flexible or you looking to go to Cali? A 159 bars you from most of these schools, and even if you got in you'd be going hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.
You really need to retake and reapply. Sit out the cycle and see how things go if your LSAT does not improve; retake it in Feb and reapply next September/October.

I sat out a cycle and reapplied this year, at this point I took the test 5 times though the two LSAT flexes over the summer didn't count to my limit. I was getting into the 164-165s during my timed PTs and 174 after blind review, however I experienced so many proctor connection issues from the July LSAT flex-November LSAT flex and during my November LSAT in 2019 my proctor was almost kicked out by campus security and uploaded the wrong test onto half of the takers tablets. This really aggravated my test taking anxiety so unfortunately I feel like I have to go with the 159 and maybe ED BU? I am in Cali currently, but not looking to stay here. I am interested in Health Law.

If you must go to law school, and I really sincerely encourage you not to go unless you retake and reapply, you need to apply to a state flagship school in the state/region you want to be in. I would be comfortable graduating with 45-75k debtish from Indiana, Iowa, OSU, ASU, UNC, etc. If Cali is where you want to be try for UCI, UCD, or maybe even UCH (although, I've heard not so great things about this school), and see what you can get. If you are targeting NE, maybe U of Conn or Northeastern for a really good package or something.
You really can't go to BU and take out 200+k- the only way to pay that off is biglaw, and it'll be really hard to clench from a school like BU/BC. BU/BC are great schools, for the right price. I'd maybe even seriously consider them even for slightly more than 75k total COA if I were set on Boston.
I go to a T1 myself and will graduate with about 60k in debt. I'm not a T14 ride or die. That said, my outcome has been better than most of my peers, I won't be making six figures, but I've got a good offer post grad. Even some of my LR friends struck out at biglaw and my school's stats are comparable to BC/BU (albeit, slightly worse). I'd say half my friends have no option at all and are hoping once they pass the bar they'll get something.
I'd seriously consider retaking/reapplying. If you must go, go to a decent state school or something on the cheap that keeps your debt load below 70k or something.
https://www.lstreports.com/schools/bu/
BU has great stats for a T1- but still 10-20% of the class don't get jobs at all. About 40% get biglaw and presumably, they are all near the top of their class or have connections.
If BU's ED gives a full scholarship, or if you have folks to live with in Boston, maybe you can reconsider, but 200k or more, cost of living, tuition, etc., it is just absurd, and you've got more than a coin flips chance of striking out.
I'm sure you know all of this. I know it feels shitty to wait, I personally ignored the advice on this forum and didn't retake; I really wish I had. I partially listened and didn't go for sticker price to a T20, and instead took the near fullride at the T1 in my region. I got lucky. Most of my friends however did not. Many will be graduating over 120k+ in debt and be working at the local small shops making 50-70k. Some will strike out entirely.
I hope you make the decision that is best for you.

[bouquetofcringe]

I know it is tough to hear, but you'll need to retake to get any of these schools most likely. You have a stellar GPA. If you retake and get a 167+ you are getting into these schools and scholarships at some of them.
What are your goals? Biglaw? Public interest? This could determine a good range/score for you. Are you geographically flexible or you looking to go to Cali? A 159 bars you from most of these schools, and even if you got in you'd be going hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.
You really need to retake and reapply. Sit out the cycle and see how things go if your LSAT does not improve; retake it in Feb and reapply next September/October.

I sat out a cycle and reapplied this year, at this point I took the test 5 times though the two LSAT flexes over the summer didn't count to my limit. I was getting into the 164-165s during my timed PTs and 174 after blind review, however I experienced so many proctor connection issues from the July LSAT flex-November LSAT flex and during my November LSAT in 2019 my proctor was almost kicked out by campus security and uploaded the wrong test onto half of the takers tablets. This really aggravated my test taking anxiety so unfortunately I feel like I have to go with the 159 and maybe ED BU? I am in Cali currently, but not looking to stay here. I am interested in Health Law.

If you must go to law school, and I really sincerely encourage you not to go unless you retake and reapply, you need to apply to a state flagship school in the state/region you want to be in. I would be comfortable graduating with 45-75k debtish from Indiana, Iowa, OSU, ASU, UNC, etc. If Cali is where you want to be try for UCI, UCD, or maybe even UCH (although, I've heard not so great things about this school), and see what you can get. If you are targeting NE, maybe U of Conn or Northeastern for a really good package or something.
You really can't go to BU and take out 200+k- the only way to pay that off is biglaw, and it'll be really hard to clench from a school like BU/BC. BU/BC are great schools, for the right price. I'd maybe even seriously consider them even for slightly more than 75k total COA if I were set on Boston.
I go to a T1 myself and will graduate with about 60k in debt. I'm not a T14 ride or die. That said, my outcome has been better than most of my peers, I won't be making six figures, but I've got a good offer post grad. Even some of my LR friends struck out at biglaw and my school's stats are comparable to BC/BU (albeit, slightly worse). I'd say half my friends have no option at all and are hoping once they pass the bar they'll get something.
I'd seriously consider retaking/reapplying. If you must go, go to a decent state school or something on the cheap that keeps your debt load below 70k or something.
https://www.lstreports.com/schools/bu/
BU has great stats for a T1- but still 10-20% of the class don't get jobs at all. About 40% get biglaw and presumably, they are all near the top of their class or have connections.
If BU's ED gives a full scholarship, or if you have folks to live with in Boston, maybe you can reconsider, but 200k or more, cost of living, tuition, etc., it is just absurd, and you've got more than a coin flips chance of striking out.
I'm sure you know all of this. I know it feels shitty to wait, I personally ignored the advice on this forum and didn't retake; I really wish I had. I partially listened and didn't go for sticker price to a T20, and instead took the near fullride at the T1 in my region. I got lucky. Most of my friends however did not. Many will be graduating over 120k+ in debt and be working at the local small shops making 50-70k. Some will strike out entirely.
I hope you make the decision that is best for you.

I ended up getting a 166 back from my last test so hopefully that has improved my chances! I also contacted BU and was released from ED thankfully.

[crazywafflez]

Fantastic job! A 166 opens up the T20 (mostly at sticker though) and great packages at T1 schools. This is basically the range I was looking at. I'm a minority as well (although, not a URM). Here was my cycle:
UVA- Dinged
Duke- Dinged
Cornell- WL
UT/Vandy/WashU - WL - In
Emory/GW/BC- In with $
W&M/Wake/Bama/UGA/Tulane/W&L/UNC- In with $$$
Home state U- stipend.
I ended up choosing that step above homestate U- where I basically got a full ride but had to pay living expenses and some tuition cost (plus tuition increases...). I'm pretty happy overall with my decision, although, I do think perhaps homestate U would've served me better as I'm headed back to the state.
My recommendation though would be to not pay sticker at a T20. I would say your cycle should be slightly stronger than mine (as you have slightly better numbers compared to me); however, I've heard this cycle is more competitive. If your goals are biglaw, retake for 2 more points. You can get biglaw from WashU etc., but if you strike out, it'll be a world of hurt. There's very little difference between that tier of Emory and that tier of UGA tbh. I would always pick UGA over Emory unless all things were equal price wise. Don't plan on going somewhere and being top of your class either, I thought I'd be top and I'm median. Pick the school that is cheap in the region/state you want to practice in. If you want Boston, BC and BU are peers, and if BC gives you more money, go there. Don't take BU over UCD if you want Cali though just cause it is higher ranked. Even the T20, to some extent, is regionally barred. You've really gotta get into the T14 to have national mobility and secure biglaw placement. Sorry for the rant, but cannot stress enough, do not take 200K out for some school like Emory.