Columbia Class of 2020 Forum

[MrJD2020]

I came to the conclusion that working in big law, paying rent in the city, and paying more than 3k a month for student debt might just result in depression during my late 20's and early 30's. Imaging working those horrible, grueling hours and paying everything off to loans

]I rather pay off more in the long run but enjoy my younger years.

Does everyone here want NYC? I know big law starting salaries are the same in many other (and maybe even all?) cities where the COL is much cheaper.

Maybe all the V10/V20 does, maybe even V50, but I'm pretty sure it's not true for the whole NLJ 250 or whatever the hell grouping of largest 200 or 250 or 300 law firms in the U.S. people call "big law", some of which is not so "big". But, yeah, COL is the worst in NY and SF(/LA). Too bad I plan to stay in NY!

[MrJD2020]

One of these days I'm going to make a spreadsheet with projected income, expenses, and actual tax tables so I can sleep at little better knowing that I'm not crazy for doing this.

Here's a screenshot of my draft.

http://imgur.com/a/krtQk

Assumptions:
- I max out my 401k contribution at $20k a year (which is where the max annual contribution will probably be by then) and I get an employer match of my 401k contributions up to 5% of my gross salary.
- I put a few grand a year to a Roth IRA or other savings vehicle that I fund with pre-tax dollars as well as few grand in pre-tax dollars to my flexible spending account for health expenses.
- A 35% tax rate.
- Additional savings of $1K a month from my after-tax income in year 1, increasing steadily each year.
- Not factoring in bonuses, because it just makes people plan horribly. I learned that the hard way. Plus, the first year bonus is a stub year bonus, not the full amount. And if you lateral to another firm at some point but you get the timing wrong, you might lose out on a bonus from your old firm but not get the full-year bonus from the new firm.
-Assumes I take advantage of the full six-month grace period on loan repayment so I can aggressively save a bit in the summer and fall of 2020 before starting repayment basically at the start of 2021 (or in Nov/Dec 2020). That's why the spreadsheet starts with "2021".

Result:
In year 1, I'm left with $4,300 a month for my actual life (rent, discretionary spending, charitable giving, travel) and $3,100 per month for student loans.


If anyone's curious, this is based on financing my education with:
- My scholarship/tuition grant from CLS (basically a Butler)
-$12.5K saved each of my two summers (the most you can expect to save toward school expenses if you make $3.5K pre-tax per week, work 8 weeks, get taxed, and pay rent/living expenses over the summers using your summer income)
-Student loans for the rest

Can send you the spreadsheet if you want, though I'm sure yours would be better.

[smilingorch]

I came to the conclusion that working in big law, paying rent in the city, and paying more than 3k a month for student debt might just result in depression during my late 20's and early 30's. Imaging working those horrible, grueling hours and paying everything off to loans

]I rather pay off more in the long run but enjoy my younger years.

Does everyone here want NYC? I know big law starting salaries are the same in many other (and maybe even all?) cities where the COL is much cheaper.

Maybe all the V10/V20 does, maybe even V50, but I'm pretty sure it's not true for the whole NLJ 250 or whatever the hell grouping of largest 200 or 250 or 300 law firms in the U.S. people call "big law", some of which is not so "big". But, yeah, COL is the worst in NY and SF(/LA). Too bad I plan to stay in NY!

I'm really gunning for Texas after graduation. All my family is there and after having lived up north for the past 6 years, I'm ready to head back to the sunshine and inexpensive COL. Seriously, what I pay in rent for a one bedroom up north would get me a 4 bedroom house with a backyard and pool in Texas. Not even kidding.

[texcellence]

.

[Thelaw23]

One of these days I'm going to make a spreadsheet with projected income, expenses, and actual tax tables so I can sleep at little better knowing that I'm not crazy for doing this.

Here's a screenshot of my draft.

http://imgur.com/a/krtQk

Assumptions:
- I max out my 401k contribution at $20k a year (which is where the max annual contribution will probably be by then) and I get an employer match of my 401k contributions up to 5% of my gross salary.
- I put a few grand a year to a Roth IRA or other savings vehicle that I fund with pre-tax dollars as well as few grand in pre-tax dollars to my flexible spending account for health expenses.
- A 35% tax rate.
- Additional savings of $1K a month from my after-tax income in year 1, increasing steadily each year.
- Not factoring in bonuses, because it just makes people plan horribly. I learned that the hard way. Plus, the first year bonus is a stub year bonus, not the full amount. And if you lateral to another firm at some point but you get the timing wrong, you might lose out on a bonus from your old firm but not get the full-year bonus from the new firm.
-Assumes I take advantage of the full six-month grace period on loan repayment so I can aggressively save a bit in the summer and fall of 2020 before starting repayment basically at the start of 2021 (or in Nov/Dec 2020). That's why the spreadsheet starts with "2021".

Result:
In year 1, I'm left with $4,300 a month for my actual life (rent, discretionary spending, charitable giving, travel) and $3,100 per month for student loans.


If anyone's curious, this is based on financing my education with:
- My scholarship/tuition grant from CLS (basically a Butler)
-$12.5K saved each of my two summers (the most you can expect to save toward school expenses if you make $3.5K pre-tax per week, work 8 weeks, get taxed, and pay rent/living expenses over the summers using your summer income)
-Student loans for the rest

Can send you the spreadsheet if you want, though I'm sure yours would be better.

Now lesbe honest is 500 discretionary income per month enough.
That's 125 a week.
Does this include clothes, restaurants/eating out, going out drinking, cover charges at clubs/concerts?

[Npret]

Just FYI most biglaw firms don't match 401(k) I didn't read the thread to see where you're getting that number so sorry if I missed something.

Why are you counting on 1L income? (Honest question when I was in school it was uncommon for 1Ls work in NYC biglaw summer programs so I don't know the answer.)

Did you include healthcare and other insurance premiums?

What is your takehome pay estimate?

[WordsworthIsBae]

Just submitted my housing app. I need a drink.

[MrJD2020]

Now lesbe honest is 500 discretionary income per month enough.
That's 125 a week.
Does this include clothes, restaurants/eating out, going out drinking, cover charges at clubs/concerts?

maybe, kind of =|

The $4,200 figure should probably be a few hundred higher for clothes/eating out, but at the same time, I've done a LOT of that over the past 5 years in the city and have gotten a lot of it out of my system. I don't do $50 or $100 covers, prefer a few drinks at the bar, etc. But point taken, it's still a conservative monthly spending figure, though perhaps that is offset somewhat by the fact that I didn't include bonuses in the salary line.

Revised: http://imgur.com/a/dmEn0

[MrJD2020]

Just FYI most biglaw firms don't match 401(k) I didn't read the thread to see where you're getting that number so sorry if I missed something.

Why are you counting on 1L income? (Honest question when I was in school it was uncommon for 1Ls work in NYC biglaw summer programs so I don't know the answer.)

Did you include healthcare and other insurance premiums?

What is your takehome pay estimate?

1. HOLY SHIT. According to Above The Law (and ATL comments) ,you're right. Not being snarky, it is sad that ATL is a resource, but you are right. http://abovethelaw.com/2013/02/biglaw-p ... -rankings/. Sadly, the right approach on ATL is to read the comments. I get a 401(k) match now, but won't in biglaw. Why the f*** am I going to law school....? ANYWAY

2. I'll 100% seek 1L biglaw summers. It's not common but it's not ultra-uncommon, and my motivation would be just how much I know I need the $. I know a number of people who have done it, like half a dozen, personally. I happen to know dozens of junior/mid-level biglaw associates. But, you're right -- it may not happen! Which is why my spreadsheet is scary -- the outlook could be even more dreary.

3. I suppose if insurance premiums are significant, they might replace part of the amount I had dedicated to Roth IRA contributions.

4. My take-home pay estimate, from a 180K gross base salary, is 100K.
180 - 25k (401k, plus roth IRA or health insurance premiums) = 155K.
155K * .65 (35 percent effective tax rate, thx nyc taxes) = 100K.

Here's my revised napkin math that does not include a 401k match and that increases my monthly expenses in year one from $4,200 to about $4,600.

http://imgur.com/a/dmEn0

[Npret]

There is a thread here on firm benefits somewhere here. Biglaw benefits are notoriously bad.

[trevian39]

Just deposited!!! So so so excited

[lellie]

.

[smilingorch]

For those of you who don't live in the tri-state area,how are you getting all your stuff to NYC? Any recommended shipping services?

Shipping was way too expensive for me. I made a trip out of driving a huge truckload of stuff and dropping the uhaul off at my destination. It took 2 days with a few rest breaks.

[Thelaw23]

I want to know the best way to get notified of all events/speeches/groups because I want the free food

[Bearlyalive]

I want to know the best way to get notified of all events/speeches/groups because I want the free food

Columbia sends an email each morning with a list of all events in the law school. 90+% of lunch events will have food. If you click on the event, you can get a description and they will tell you whether or not there will be food (and sometimes they will say what the food is).

In addition to the school-wide email, individual student organizations will also send out emails for their lunch events. Those will give you more detail about the speaker/event, and will usually say what the food is (or, at least, will tell you if it's a non-pizza lunch). During your first week or so at Columbia, you will be absolutely flooded with emails from student groups until someone shows you the page where you can remove yourself from mailing lists.

Fewer students groups regularly host dinner events, but you'll find them occasionally. But they will always be listed in the school-wide email.

SJI, OCS, and other administration lunches will also send out emails for their lunch events. The smaller events they host are generally good because they usually have good sandwiches, chips, and cookies. The larger events you will get greasy cheese pizza.

All this to say, don't worry, you'll have more information about free food than you ever wanted or bargained for.

[CPA-->JD]

If anyone is interested in a spreadsheet that calculates your take home income in NYC for a bunch of years after graduation let me know.

It's using married filing tax tables but you can change them if you want. Also, I don't think there is any AMT tax but was too lazy to make sure.

You can plug in your spouse income/pretax deductions/loans/monthly expenses to get your personal take home amount.

[Thelaw23]

I want to know the best way to get notified of all events/speeches/groups because I want the free food

Columbia sends an email each morning with a list of all events in the law school. 90+% of lunch events will have food. If you click on the event, you can get a description and they will tell you whether or not there will be food (and sometimes they will say what the food is).

In addition to the school-wide email, individual student organizations will also send out emails for their lunch events. Those will give you more detail about the speaker/event, and will usually say what the food is (or, at least, will tell you if it's a non-pizza lunch). During your first week or so at Columbia, you will be absolutely flooded with emails from student groups until someone shows you the page where you can remove yourself from mailing lists.

Fewer students groups regularly host dinner events, but you'll find them occasionally. But they will always be listed in the school-wide email.

SJI, OCS, and other administration lunches will also send out emails for their lunch events. The smaller events they host are generally good because they usually have good sandwiches, chips, and cookies. The larger events you will get greasy cheese pizza.

All this to say, don't worry, you'll have more information about free food than you ever wanted or bargained for.

This was just the info I was looking for! Is enrollment into the student groups/organizations fairly easy?

[jpark86]

+100000

But seriously, there's NYSC nearby so if Dodge sucks as much as people say it does I might sign up for that. One of my pet peeves are gyms that suck/too crowded. I want to be able to workout at whatever time I want without having to wait for 3 people to finish benching before I can start.

Agreed. How much does NYSC go for?

Not sure but I think between 50 and 100 a month, definitely less than 100, and maybe (hopefully!) they have a student discount.

In NYC? No way.

NYSC can't be more than 60 a month. Back in the day I had like a $30 a month student membership from them.

There's also a BLINK fitness like 15 minutes away from CLS and that's literally the cheapest gym membership you could get, prices start at like $20 a month.

Doesn't one of the on campus housing options have a gym? Any word on if it's any good? Apartment gyms are very hit-or-miss

Lenfest has a gym, BUT its only cardio... no freeweights!

I am currently a member of NYSC. Students get a $10 discount from the monthly ~$70 for the standard pass to all other nyscs

And yes, Dodge does get pretty crowded... its gonna suck especially for those who do circuits or supersets....

Anyone here an avid weight lifter? Id be willing to partner up to maintain those gains!!

[Thelaw23]

+100000

But seriously, there's NYSC nearby so if Dodge sucks as much as people say it does I might sign up for that. One of my pet peeves are gyms that suck/too crowded. I want to be able to workout at whatever time I want without having to wait for 3 people to finish benching before I can start.

Agreed. How much does NYSC go for?

Not sure but I think between 50 and 100 a month, definitely less than 100, and maybe (hopefully!) they have a student discount.

In NYC? No way.

NYSC can't be more than 60 a month. Back in the day I had like a $30 a month student membership from them.

There's also a BLINK fitness like 15 minutes away from CLS and that's literally the cheapest gym membership you could get, prices start at like $20 a month.

Doesn't one of the on campus housing options have a gym? Any word on if it's any good? Apartment gyms are very hit-or-miss

[/quote]

Lenfest has a gym, BUT its only cardio... no freeweights!

I am currently a member of NYSC. Students get a $10 discount from the monthly ~$70 for the standard pass to all other nyscs

And yes, Dodge does get pretty crowded... its gonna suck especially for those who do circuits or supersets....

Anyone here an avid weight lifter? Id be willing to partner up to maintain those gains!![/quote]

Right here bruh, can't let law school take our gains away

[Leliana]

Anyone here an avid weight lifter? Id be willing to partner up to maintain those gains!!

Me!! I'm a tiny lady though so if you're a dude lifting significant weight I can't promise I'll be much help with spotting, haha.

[jjcorvino]

+100000

But seriously, there's NYSC nearby so if Dodge sucks as much as people say it does I might sign up for that. One of my pet peeves are gyms that suck/too crowded. I want to be able to workout at whatever time I want without having to wait for 3 people to finish benching before I can start.

Agreed. How much does NYSC go for?

Not sure but I think between 50 and 100 a month, definitely less than 100, and maybe (hopefully!) they have a student discount.

In NYC? No way.

NYSC can't be more than 60 a month. Back in the day I had like a $30 a month student membership from them.

There's also a BLINK fitness like 15 minutes away from CLS and that's literally the cheapest gym membership you could get, prices start at like $20 a month.

Doesn't one of the on campus housing options have a gym? Any word on if it's any good? Apartment gyms are very hit-or-miss

Lenfest has a gym, BUT its only cardio... no freeweights!

I am currently a member of NYSC. Students get a $10 discount from the monthly ~$70 for the standard pass to all other nyscs

And yes, Dodge does get pretty crowded... its gonna suck especially for those who do circuits or supersets....

Anyone here an avid weight lifter? Id be willing to partner up to maintain those gains!![/quote]

Right here bruh, can't let law school take our gains away[/quote]

I am in for the gains club.

[Thelaw23]

+100000

But seriously, there's NYSC nearby so if Dodge sucks as much as people say it does I might sign up for that. One of my pet peeves are gyms that suck/too crowded. I want to be able to workout at whatever time I want without having to wait for 3 people to finish benching before I can start.

Agreed. How much does NYSC go for?

Not sure but I think between 50 and 100 a month, definitely less than 100, and maybe (hopefully!) they have a student discount.

In NYC? No way.

NYSC can't be more than 60 a month. Back in the day I had like a $30 a month student membership from them.

There's also a BLINK fitness like 15 minutes away from CLS and that's literally the cheapest gym membership you could get, prices start at like $20 a month.

Doesn't one of the on campus housing options have a gym? Any word on if it's any good? Apartment gyms are very hit-or-miss

[/quote]

Lenfest has a gym, BUT its only cardio... no freeweights!

I am currently a member of NYSC. Students get a $10 discount from the monthly ~$70 for the standard pass to all other nyscs

And yes, Dodge does get pretty crowded... its gonna suck especially for those who do circuits or supersets....

Anyone here an avid weight lifter? Id be willing to partner up to maintain those gains!![/quote]

Right here bruh, can't let law school take our gains away[/quote]

I am in for the gains club.[/quote]

I'm actually down to make a fb group

[Studybuddy17]

If anyone is interested in a spreadsheet that calculates your take home income in NYC for a bunch of years after graduation let me know.

It's using married filing tax tables but you can change them if you want. Also, I don't think there is any AMT tax but was too lazy to make sure.

You can plug in your spouse income/pretax deductions/loans/monthly expenses to get your personal take home amount.

Yes, interested in checking this out if you can please post. Thanks!

[CPA-->JD]

If anyone is interested in a spreadsheet that calculates your take home income in NYC for a bunch of years after graduation let me know.

It's using married filing tax tables but you can change them if you want. Also, I don't think there is any AMT tax but was too lazy to make sure.

You can plug in your spouse income/pretax deductions/loans/monthly expenses to get your personal take home amount.

Yes, interested in checking this out if you can please post. Thanks!

I have it in Excel so should I just email or is there an easy way to post here?

[MrJD2020]

If anyone is interested in a spreadsheet that calculates your take home income in NYC for a bunch of years after graduation let me know.

It's using married filing tax tables but you can change them if you want. Also, I don't think there is any AMT tax but was too lazy to make sure.

You can plug in your spouse income/pretax deductions/loans/monthly expenses to get your personal take home amount.

Yes, interested in checking this out if you can please post. Thanks!

I have it in Excel so should I just email or is there an easy way to post here?

Dropbox public link? I don't think you can directly attach files in TLS posts.