Thank you! Short outlines are a must in the last few weeks. Props to you for making these outlines and chatting with us. I exchanged some emails with you and appreciated your words and advice.a male human wrote:Congrats l18! Thanks for your tips and the shoutout for Magicsheets.
2018 July California Bar Forum
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Re: 2018 July California Bar
- rcharter1978
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Re: 2018 July California Bar
I used Patrick Lin out of So. Cal. I mainly used him because he is a former grader and his prices were way more reasonable than those of the two other CA bar graders that tutor (that I knew of). I wouldn't particularly use him for anything other than writing (which I needed a lot of help with). If you need help with writing and you can handle a very no nonsense no sugar coating approach he is a good guy.justanotherperson wrote:Failed the bar my first time. Completely disheartened because I thought I may have pulled it off! I used Barbri and am regretting my decision. Does anyone know of any good CA Bar tutors that helped them pass? I really could use the advice and help. At this point, I will do anything to pass Feb 2019....
Last edited by rcharter1978 on Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- rcharter1978
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Re: 2018 July California Bar
People have passed after taking it like 6-7 times. I once saw a woman on TV who passed it after 14 times. You can pass this, but I imagine it's easy to get in your own head and think it can't be done. But it can.Underoath wrote:I’m just over the whole exam now. It’s been too long dealing with this. Then the doubt of if I’ll ever pass sets in.a male human wrote:That really sucks. Pass rate was close to 40% (and something like 16% for repeaters), the lowest it's been on record for July. Very tough exam.Underoath wrote:didnt pass again.....wow just wow.
- HopefulURM
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Re: 2018 July California Bar
So does that mean that MBE Scores/Score Advisories have now been authorized for release from the CA bar?phonylawyer2017 wrote:Well, requested the NCBE score advisory and my MBE score exceeds 150, yet still failed. Great.
- rcharter1978
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Re: 2018 July California Bar
Just a thought RE: BarbriAuxilio wrote:But why would you "look at it as a whole" instead of just comparing Themis rates with California's rates in general?bacillusanthracis wrote:But when you look at it as a whole, and considering that most people will use Barbri or Themis, the overall results aren't very good. To be fair to both though, the grading process in California is pretty mysterious. But what we do know shows us that it's designed to work against us. So maybe the results the big box companies get is indicative of them not knowing what to do either.
https://www.themisbar.com/pass-rates
Themis seems to do 15-20% better for California if you do >75% of the course (and I can almost guarantee a lot of people do check off things like "read outline" as complete to move on with schedule inflating their completion amount more than is accurate.
I mean, it's not 100% of course, but it's still a big step up from the general rate (a lot of whom presumably use Barbri/etc.). I know my perception is influenced because I passed, but I also felt pretty good about Themis' prep before finding out my results (and thinking there was a very good chance I had failed).
I'm not trying to dismiss the valid concerns of those who failed, but this conversation really seems to be missing a stark look at the numbers.
ETA: looking at it I can't find any pass rates from Barbri so I assume they don't publish them. This almost guarantees they do worse than (or very similar to) Themis because why wouldn't they be screaming "x% more test takers pass with us than Themis" if they did.
My understanding is that themis generally attracts test takers who generally have done at least reasonably okay in school. Barbri gets "everyone" in greater numbers, especially those who maybe haven't done the best in class. They are the biggest test company (I think) so this makes sense. No matter what program you used, if you spent 3-4 years goofing off and not doing anything, it's going to be tough for you to pass. So that may explain some part of Barbri s low pass numbers. Or not.
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Re: 2018 July California Bar
For people who didn’t pass, when are we supposed to get our results mailed? I’m eager to know what’s my score is.
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Re: 2018 July California Bar
If you live in California, I think you receive them on Monday. Should be early in the week, regardless.Happy88 wrote:For people who didn’t pass, when are we supposed to get our results mailed? I’m eager to know what’s my score is.
- Atmosphere
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Re: 2018 July California Bar
Failed, strapping up for february after seriously learning how to write essays
Score breakdown:
Raw Written: 405
Scaled Written: 1338.8930
Scaled MBE: 1499.00
Total Scaled Score: 1418.9465
Painful that it was close...any advice for upping my essay skills will be greatly appreciated!
Score breakdown:
Raw Written: 405
Scaled Written: 1338.8930
Scaled MBE: 1499.00
Total Scaled Score: 1418.9465
Painful that it was close...any advice for upping my essay skills will be greatly appreciated!
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Re: 2018 July California Bar
Sorry! Was super anxious at the time of the posting.Shirosham wrote:A friend told me that when he had checked the Admission Status page (https://sbc.calbar.ca.gov/), the Wed/Thurs before results released, he noticed that his "Not on Motion" had changed to "On Motion."
Anyone know if this might be a legit way to try and see about results? Anyone "On Motion?"
For future takers - No, this isn't a secret trick. The motion date is submitted a few days before results come out, but you will not see this change until results are actually released.
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Re: 2018 July California Bar
Passed!! I took a smaller company called One-Timers. I failed previously using a major company. My experience with One-Timers was fantastic and I highly recommend it. One-Timers has personalized focus, real licensed MBE questions and great analysis. The course focuses on application over memorization and that worked for me. I failed miserably before and once I got a hang of what the examiners were really testing, I actually started to enjoy writing essays and doing MBEs!!! And NO, i'm not paid by One-TImers or an employee in any way. Just grateful to have gone through such a great program.
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Re: 2018 July California Bar
In my opinion, you need a couple of things: good quality/critical feedback on your practice essays as well as a lot of experience writing. I'd suggest no less than 2 full essays written per day of prep. Second, you need to make sure that you don't neglect your strengths. Plenty of friends did well on X section the first time only to fail that section the next time around. It all goes hand in hand. Good luck.Atmosphere wrote:Failed, strapping up for february after seriously learning how to write essays
Score breakdown:
Raw Written: 405
Scaled Written: 1338.8930
Scaled MBE: 1499.00
Total Scaled Score: 1418.9465
Painful that it was close...any advice for upping my essay skills will be greatly appreciated!
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Re: 2018 July California Bar
It happens I failed with 159 Mbe but that was when MBE is less than 50%. Nowadays, when your MBE is above 160, you are in or very close to the auto-pass due to the scaled written score.phonylawyer2017 wrote:Well, requested the NCBE score advisory and my MBE score exceeds 150, yet still failed. Great.
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Re: 2018 July California Bar
Here's my insight (1st time passer):Atmosphere wrote:Failed, strapping up for february after seriously learning how to write essays
Score breakdown:
Raw Written: 405
Scaled Written: 1338.8930
Scaled MBE: 1499.00
Total Scaled Score: 1418.9465
Painful that it was close...any advice for upping my essay skills will be greatly appreciated!
If you did the same amount of preparation/research as me, you'll know that everyone stressed the importance of hitting all the issues, if not most of it. My Themis Bar Grader gave me 50/55s because I "missed issues XYZ." BarEssays also show many essays receiving below the needed 65 (or 62.5, rather), citing to an obvious mistake--failure to spot some issues. Past takers on TLS and other forums stress the same thing.
Naturally, that's what I tried to learn. I say learn because I didn't have to remember 13 (?) subjects for just a single day to spot the issues back in law school. It was just 1 subject--memorize the outline and go to the exam and forget about it. So, I don't think I'm particularly good at spotting issues, because that requires knowing the law well, or at least memorizing the law well. I've never been a good memorizer. I did well in law school by sheer analysis. So, based on my research, bar exam writing was different than law school writing.
I left the essay exam thinking I did well. Then, against all advice, I decided to see what others wrote. To my surprise (or not), I missed a crap ton of issues. Writing Requirement for assurances? OJ Exception? CA Evidence exceptions for spousal abuse? Standing? Market participant exception? The existence of a balancing test for the P&I analysis on Con law? The list goes on. So, I came to the conclusion that I missed more issues than I wrote about.
I passed. And here's what I know I definitely did well on. I developed the sh*t out of the major issues. Every subject/essay has their major issue(s). They are worth the most points--just like in law school. The facts will suggest to you what the major issue is. Commonly, it will be obvious. There will be strong facts to argue both sides. So, for the issues that I did spot, the major ones, I did what I do best in law school, analyze it thoroughly.
I think that's a key thing most people miss. While there's some truth to spotting issues, and earning those free points for putting down even one sentence for a minor issue (e.g. the fact that they weren't married in the Evidence essay, and so there's no privilege (i didn't even talk about this)), I think the main priority is to learn how to analyze well and thoroughly. That has to be step 1. Step 2 is focus on hitting the main areas of each subject matter. Negligence for Torts, Murder for Crim, Hearsay/Character for Evidence, etc. Learn how to analyze those. Learn which facts are used to argue. Learn how to determine the strength of each fact and how much weight a fact finder gives to these facts. That has to be Step 2. It makes up 60-70% of the essays. Step 3 should then be the little minor parts of the law. The other 40% of the subject. Market Participant. If you knew that, good for you. I didn't. You would've gotten a few extra points than me. But that's step 3 for a reason. It's not that big of a deal.
Now, I'll admit the bar will often throw you a curve ball and make Step 3 into a primary issue on an essay. See Con Law for example. That issue (priv and immunities? Whatever the discriminating against out of state peeps is called) has only been tested 1 or 2 times. It's a minor issue when studying. It was a Step 3 for me. So I didnt know it well. I didn't know there was a balancing test. I know just minimally that you can't discriminate against out of state dudes unless you have no choice or whatever. So I relied on that. But you know what? that was just 1 of the 5 essays. Step 1 (learning to analyze) helps you analyze any essay. I saw some facts to argue why u should or shouldnt discriminate and I used it. It's all about step 1.
In other words, a grader can tell a passing lawyer-like answer from a mile away. Great analysis shows that. Apply the facts to the law. Argue both sides. Weigh the strengths of argument. Definitely do this for the major issue of the fact pattern. If you're able to do it for the minor ones as well, good for you--a 70+ grade perhaps.
So, if you didn't learn how to write a great analysis yet, learn that. If you need help with that, feel free to PM me. I can help you (probably by telling you to analyze a short fact pattern and I'll tell you what I think of your analysis and how to improve and what to look for and/or tips/suggestion)
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Re: 2018 July California Bar
maxmartin wrote:It happens I failed with 159 Mbe but that was when MBE is less than 50%. Nowadays, when your MBE is above 160, you are in or very close to the auto-pass due to the scaled written score.phonylawyer2017 wrote:Well, requested the NCBE score advisory and my MBE score exceeds 150, yet still failed. Great.
I agree with this. Now that the MBE is worth 50%, a score of 160+ is very close to auto-pass if there is such a thing. That's how I think I passed July 2017, because my essays have never been 60+.
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Re: 2018 July California Bar
Has anyone got their scores and received the same score for every essay??? Like WTF. I know I completely blanked on one essay and was expecting a much better score on two other essays that I knew all the rules cold.... so strange.
First time attorney exam taker. Guess I need to learn how to write again... yuck.
First time attorney exam taker. Guess I need to learn how to write again... yuck.
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Re: 2018 July California Bar
Just got my score breakdown. I received a total score of 1438.94. I failed the bar by a single scaled point. I hope not even my biggest enemy has this kind of luck.FinallyPassedTheBar wrote:maxmartin wrote:It happens I failed with 159 Mbe but that was when MBE is less than 50%. Nowadays, when your MBE is above 160, you are in or very close to the auto-pass due to the scaled written score.phonylawyer2017 wrote:Well, requested the NCBE score advisory and my MBE score exceeds 150, yet still failed. Great.
I agree with this. Now that the MBE is worth 50%, a score of 160+ is very close to auto-pass if there is such a thing. That's how I think I passed July 2017, because my essays have never been 60+.
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Re: 2018 July California Bar
What is a 1422 scaled for the MBE? I’m trying to determine how many questions I got wrong. Thanks.
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Re: 2018 July California Bar
Underoath wrote:What is a 1422 scaled for the MBE? I’m trying to determine how many questions I got wrong. Thanks.
I believe that is around a 142. Basically divide by 10.
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Re: 2018 July California Bar
phonylawyer2017 wrote:Just got my score breakdown. I received a total score of 1438.94. I failed the bar by a single scaled point. I hope not even my biggest enemy has this kind of luck.FinallyPassedTheBar wrote:maxmartin wrote:It happens I failed with 159 Mbe but that was when MBE is less than 50%. Nowadays, when your MBE is above 160, you are in or very close to the auto-pass due to the scaled written score.phonylawyer2017 wrote:Well, requested the NCBE score advisory and my MBE score exceeds 150, yet still failed. Great.
I agree with this. Now that the MBE is worth 50%, a score of 160+ is very close to auto-pass if there is such a thing. That's how I think I passed July 2017, because my essays have never been 60+.
Damn that's heartbreaking, I feel for you. So close. You should pass the next time.
Frame that letter, you'll laugh at it in the future..
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Re: 2018 July California Bar
Wow, I’m really sorry that really does suck. They really couldn’t just push for that one point?phonylawyer2017 wrote:Just got my score breakdown. I received a total score of 1438.94. I failed the bar by a single scaled point. I hope not even my biggest enemy has this kind of luck.FinallyPassedTheBar wrote:maxmartin wrote:It happens I failed with 159 Mbe but that was when MBE is less than 50%. Nowadays, when your MBE is above 160, you are in or very close to the auto-pass due to the scaled written score.phonylawyer2017 wrote:Well, requested the NCBE score advisory and my MBE score exceeds 150, yet still failed. Great.
I agree with this. Now that the MBE is worth 50%, a score of 160+ is very close to auto-pass if there is such a thing. That's how I think I passed July 2017, because my essays have never been 60+.
- rcharter1978
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Re: 2018 July California Bar
I feel like there is some real process to ask for a recount for the mbe when you're that close.phonylawyer2017 wrote:Just got my score breakdown. I received a total score of 1438.94. I failed the bar by a single scaled point. I hope not even my biggest enemy has this kind of luck.FinallyPassedTheBar wrote:maxmartin wrote:It happens I failed with 159 Mbe but that was when MBE is less than 50%. Nowadays, when your MBE is above 160, you are in or very close to the auto-pass due to the scaled written score.phonylawyer2017 wrote:Well, requested the NCBE score advisory and my MBE score exceeds 150, yet still failed. Great.
I agree with this. Now that the MBE is worth 50%, a score of 160+ is very close to auto-pass if there is such a thing. That's how I think I passed July 2017, because my essays have never been 60+.
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- catechumen
- Posts: 50
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Re: 2018 July California Bar
I have failed the CA exam 8 times. Scores always arrive on Monday regardless of where I live. Today, nothing. I always wait for the letter so I can see scores if I failed. Has anyone who passed received their letter in the mail yet? And if so where do you live approximately. Heard about a guy in So Cal that got a pass letter today. Trying to figure out if they send out passing letters separate from failing letters. Thanks!
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Re: 2018 July California Bar
Yeah, I agree. Since just one MBE question is worth almost 5 essay points, it's worth it to get your MBE test hand scored if you had any erasure marks, etc..
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Re: 2018 July California Bar
I was very careful in not making any scantron errors, but I guess it's worth the $50 to get it hand graded.rcharter1978 wrote:I feel like there is some real process to ask for a recount for the mbe when you're that close.phonylawyer2017 wrote:Just got my score breakdown. I received a total score of 1438.94. I failed the bar by a single scaled point. I hope not even my biggest enemy has this kind of luck.FinallyPassedTheBar wrote:maxmartin wrote:It happens I failed with 159 Mbe but that was when MBE is less than 50%. Nowadays, when your MBE is above 160, you are in or very close to the auto-pass due to the scaled written score.phonylawyer2017 wrote:Well, requested the NCBE score advisory and my MBE score exceeds 150, yet still failed. Great.
I agree with this. Now that the MBE is worth 50%, a score of 160+ is very close to auto-pass if there is such a thing. That's how I think I passed July 2017, because my essays have never been 60+.
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Re: 2018 July California Bar
This test has no bearing whatsoever on your ability to practice law. Maybe the performance test, but that's it. It's just a right of passage. The law community wants you to prove you can work your ass off studying completely mundane material for 10 weeks straight. Your second bar exam will likely be easier than the first since you'll be able to correct the mistakes you made in prepping for your first bar. Don't give up. Channel that negative energy into fierce determination for your second bar exam.phoebe123 wrote:I failed (first time taker) and am feeling really, really depressed - questioning if I’m even cut out to be an attorney. Anyone have any advice for picking yourself up again for the next one?
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
Now there's a charge.
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