A Career in International Law Forum

[Catsinthebag]

Specialized rankings don't matter. They're not rankings of what a school has to offer students in those specialties - they're rankings by academics of academics and their work, and a given academic's placement of articles into esteemed law reviews almost never has anything to do with getting students employed in a given field.

AU does have a disproportionately high percentage of graduates go into government/public interest, as compared to firms (especially biglaw), with 21% in government and 13% in public interest (however, we don't know what kinds of jobs those are). That said, they still have an employment score of 54.6%. Their public interest score is 33.7%, but 10.4% of that is made up by school-funded jobs. And something to keep in mind is that about the same percentage of the class was unemployed as working in government. It's an incredibly expensive school. And I think from what I've seen here it's one of the only schools that demands you pay back your 1L scholarship money if you transfer.

If AU works for you, that's great. But that doesn't mean it makes sense for someone who wants to do international stuff/government to go to AU over UVA, especially when the OP never mentioned any interest in AU.

There's not much to disagree with here, though I'd quibble on the specialty rankings with respect to int'l law, simply because so much of the work either is academic or substantially driven by academia. The practice is unique in that your characterization of its ranking actually is useful. Same would not apply for other areas. Also, I don't see clinic program rankings necessarily fitting your characterization as purely academic; I'd be interested to hear if you think that applies to those rankings, too.

Re: unemployment rate and expenses, not going to hear me dispute that. I wasn't trying to convince OP of anything, just saw somebody who has similar interests as me and, considering that I'm well on my way with respect to those goals, thought I'd chime in. Thanks for your constructive, fact-based, and civil comments, though. It's nice to gain something from receiving a reply (other than flames from maladjusted gunners).

[BigZuck]

Specialized rankings don't matter. They're not rankings of what a school has to offer students in those specialties - they're rankings by academics of academics and their work, and a given academic's placement of articles into esteemed law reviews almost never has anything to do with getting students employed in a given field.

AU does have a disproportionately high percentage of graduates go into government/public interest, as compared to firms (especially biglaw), with 21% in government and 13% in public interest (however, we don't know what kinds of jobs those are). That said, they still have an employment score of 54.6%. Their public interest score is 33.7%, but 10.4% of that is made up by school-funded jobs. And something to keep in mind is that about the same percentage of the class was unemployed as working in government. It's an incredibly expensive school. And I think from what I've seen here it's one of the only schools that demands you pay back your 1L scholarship money if you transfer.

If AU works for you, that's great. But that doesn't mean it makes sense for someone who wants to do international stuff/government to go to AU over UVA, especially when the OP never mentioned any interest in AU.

There's not much to disagree with here, though I'd quibble on the specialty rankings with respect to int'l law, simply because so much of the work either is academic or substantially driven by academia. The practice is unique in that your characterization of its ranking actually is useful. Same would not apply for other areas. Also, I don't see clinic program rankings necessarily fitting your characterization as purely academic; I'd be interested to hear if you think that applies to those rankings, too.

Re: unemployment rate and expenses, not going to hear me dispute that. I wasn't trying to convince OP of anything, just saw somebody who has similar interests as me and, considering that I'm well on my way with respect to those goals, thought I'd chime in. Thanks for your constructive, fact-based, and civil comments, though. It's nice to gain something from receiving a reply (other than flames from maladjusted gunners).

Specialty rankings don't matter and American is a horrible law school that should be shut down. You can't make those things not be true just because you go there and want them to not be true. It's great that you're happy with your choices but telling people to consider attending American is really, really, really messed up.

I admire the "Above it all AHEM I'm just here for reasonable discourse thank you kind sir good day to you madam (tips top hat)" schtick but please don't tell people to attend American. Someone might actually take you seriously and their life would have a high probability of being literally ruined.

OP- now that worldtraveler is here you really should follow her advice above all else

[lawlorbust]

There's not much to disagree with here, though I'd quibble on the specialty rankings with respect to int'l law, simply because so much of the work either is academic or substantially driven by academia.

I don't know much about international law, but I smell BS on this claim.

[worldtraveler]

There's not much to disagree with here, though I'd quibble on the specialty rankings with respect to int'l law, simply because so much of the work either is academic or substantially driven by academia.

I don't know much about international law, but I smell BS on this claim.

He's right that a lot of the work is in academia, which is why rankings matter more for this kind of field than less. In my current position we throw away any resume from someone not from a T10. I think it's stupid, but that's how it is.

[BigZuck]

There's not much to disagree with here, though I'd quibble on the specialty rankings with respect to int'l law, simply because so much of the work either is academic or substantially driven by academia.

I don't know much about international law, but I smell BS on this claim.

He's right that a lot of the work is in academia, which is why rankings matter more for this kind of field than less. In my current position we throw away any resume from someone not from a T10. I think it's stupid, but that's how it is.

You're talking about US News overall rankings, right? He's talking about US News specialty rankings.

[worldtraveler]

There's not much to disagree with here, though I'd quibble on the specialty rankings with respect to int'l law, simply because so much of the work either is academic or substantially driven by academia.

I don't know much about international law, but I smell BS on this claim.

He's right that a lot of the work is in academia, which is why rankings matter more for this kind of field than less. In my current position we throw away any resume from someone not from a T10. I think it's stupid, but that's how it is.

You're talking about US News overall rankings, right? He's talking about US News specialty rankings.

Yeah I know. And as someone in that field, I'm saying his claim is bullshit.

[dresden doll]

Are jobs at UN even PSLF-eligible? Something to consider.

[Catsinthebag]

Specialized rankings don't matter. They're not rankings of what a school has to offer students in those specialties - they're rankings by academics of academics and their work, and a given academic's placement of articles into esteemed law reviews almost never has anything to do with getting students employed in a given field.

AU does have a disproportionately high percentage of graduates go into government/public interest, as compared to firms (especially biglaw), with 21% in government and 13% in public interest (however, we don't know what kinds of jobs those are). That said, they still have an employment score of 54.6%. Their public interest score is 33.7%, but 10.4% of that is made up by school-funded jobs. And something to keep in mind is that about the same percentage of the class was unemployed as working in government. It's an incredibly expensive school. And I think from what I've seen here it's one of the only schools that demands you pay back your 1L scholarship money if you transfer.

If AU works for you, that's great. But that doesn't mean it makes sense for someone who wants to do international stuff/government to go to AU over UVA, especially when the OP never mentioned any interest in AU.

There's not much to disagree with here, though I'd quibble on the specialty rankings with respect to int'l law, simply because so much of the work either is academic or substantially driven by academia. The practice is unique in that your characterization of its ranking actually is useful. Same would not apply for other areas. Also, I don't see clinic program rankings necessarily fitting your characterization as purely academic; I'd be interested to hear if you think that applies to those rankings, too.

Re: unemployment rate and expenses, not going to hear me dispute that. I wasn't trying to convince OP of anything, just saw somebody who has similar interests as me and, considering that I'm well on my way with respect to those goals, thought I'd chime in. Thanks for your constructive, fact-based, and civil comments, though. It's nice to gain something from receiving a reply (other than flames from maladjusted gunners).

Specialty rankings don't matter and American is a horrible law school that should be shut down. You can't make those things not be true just because you go there and want them to not be true. It's great that you're happy with your choices but telling people to consider attending American is really, really, really messed up.

I admire the "Above it all AHEM I'm just here for reasonable discourse thank you kind sir good day to you madam (tips top hat)" schtick but please don't tell people to attend American. Someone might actually take you seriously and their life would have a high probability of being literally ruined.

OP- now that worldtraveler is here you really should follow her advice above all else

Ah, yes, you are smart and strong and you have authority... here on the Internet. If only you had a clue. About anything. Schools. Getting a job. Real life. The world. It's not about some high level of discourse. It's about not shrieking about things you read on here 100 times and now type it as if you read it in an encyclopedia (sorry, on Wikipedia).

Here's one thing I can say with 100% confidence and authority, though: If going to law school ruins your life (no, wait, "literally" ruins your life), here's a hint... it wasn't law school that ruined your life... it was the occasion of your birth that ruined your life.

As futile as this endeavor is, I'll try to make this "really, really, really" simple for you: you get in school, you go school. you get in better school, go better one. you get in best one, you go best one. someone say something on public forum? Listen/ignore. All okay.

[Catsinthebag]

There's not much to disagree with here, though I'd quibble on the specialty rankings with respect to int'l law, simply because so much of the work either is academic or substantially driven by academia.

I don't know much about international law, but I smell BS on this claim.

He's right that a lot of the work is in academia, which is why rankings matter more for this kind of field than less. In my current position we throw away any resume from someone not from a T10. I think it's stupid, but that's how it is.

You're talking about US News overall rankings, right? He's talking about US News specialty rankings.

Yeah I know. And as someone in that field, I'm saying his claim is bullshit.

Nice. "Bullshit." Except for when one logs off the forums, takes a step off that last step of the front porch, and enters reality.

[rpupkin]

I'm enjoying Catsinthebag's schtick. Keep it up, kid.

But seriously OP: listen to worldtraveler. TLS is full of no-nothing law students and bitter law firm associates. There are, like, three posters in the history of TLS who actually know something about the kind of International Law you're interested in, and worldtraveler is one of them. Carefully consider her advice.

[Tls2016]

Specialized rankings don't matter. They're not rankings of what a school has to offer students in those specialties - they're rankings by academics of academics and their work, and a given academic's placement of articles into esteemed law reviews almost never has anything to do with getting students employed in a given field.

AU does have a disproportionately high percentage of graduates go into government/public interest, as compared to firms (especially biglaw), with 21% in government and 13% in public interest (however, we don't know what kinds of jobs those are). That said, they still have an employment score of 54.6%. Their public interest score is 33.7%, but 10.4% of that is made up by school-funded jobs. And something to keep in mind is that about the same percentage of the class was unemployed as working in government. It's an incredibly expensive school. And I think from what I've seen here it's one of the only schools that demands you pay back your 1L scholarship money if you transfer.

If AU works for you, that's great. But that doesn't mean it makes sense for someone who wants to do international stuff/government to go to AU over UVA, especially when the OP never mentioned any interest in AU.

There's not much to disagree with here, though I'd quibble on the specialty rankings with respect to int'l law, simply because so much of the work either is academic or substantially driven by academia. The practice is unique in that your characterization of its ranking actually is useful. Same would not apply for other areas. Also, I don't see clinic program rankings necessarily fitting your characterization as purely academic; I'd be interested to hear if you think that applies to those rankings, too.

Re: unemployment rate and expenses, not going to hear me dispute that. I wasn't trying to convince OP of anything, just saw somebody who has similar interests as me and, considering that I'm well on my way with respect to those goals, thought I'd chime in. Thanks for your constructive, fact-based, and civil comments, though. It's nice to gain something from receiving a reply (other than flames from maladjusted gunners).

Specialty rankings don't matter and American is a horrible law school that should be shut down. You can't make those things not be true just because you go there and want them to not be true. It's great that you're happy with your choices but telling people to consider attending American is really, really, really messed up.

I admire the "Above it all AHEM I'm just here for reasonable discourse thank you kind sir good day to you madam (tips top hat)" schtick but please don't tell people to attend American. Someone might actually take you seriously and their life would have a high probability of being literally ruined.

OP- now that worldtraveler is here you really should follow her advice above all else

Ah, yes, you are smart and strong and you have authority... here on the Internet. If only you had a clue. About anything. Schools. Getting a job. Real life. The world. It's not about some high level of discourse. It's about not shrieking about things you read on here 100 times and now type it as if you read it in an encyclopedia (sorry, on Wikipedia).

Here's one thing I can say with 100% confidence and authority, though: If going to law school ruins your life (no, wait, "literally" ruins your life), here's a hint... it wasn't law school that ruined your life... it was the occasion of your birth that ruined your life.

As futile as this endeavor is, I'll try to make this "really, really, really" simple for you: you get in school, you go school. you get in better school, go better one. you get in best one, you go best one. someone say something on public forum? Listen/ignore. All okay.

If you think no ones life was ruined by law school I invite you to read the Vale of Tears thread. (Or maybe look at the continual stealth layoffs and public layoffs of young associates.) American University has a less than 45.0% legal employment rate ( in any field) when you take out the school funded jobs. It's just plain irresponsible to suggest someone attend American with the hope of obtaining a job that you yourself say requires luck, connections and the ability to work for a few years with no income after graduation.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/american/

[jbagelboy]

Specialized rankings don't matter. They're not rankings of what a school has to offer students in those specialties - they're rankings by academics of academics and their work, and a given academic's placement of articles into esteemed law reviews almost never has anything to do with getting students employed in a given field.

AU does have a disproportionately high percentage of graduates go into government/public interest, as compared to firms (especially biglaw), with 21% in government and 13% in public interest (however, we don't know what kinds of jobs those are). That said, they still have an employment score of 54.6%. Their public interest score is 33.7%, but 10.4% of that is made up by school-funded jobs. And something to keep in mind is that about the same percentage of the class was unemployed as working in government. It's an incredibly expensive school. And I think from what I've seen here it's one of the only schools that demands you pay back your 1L scholarship money if you transfer.

If AU works for you, that's great. But that doesn't mean it makes sense for someone who wants to do international stuff/government to go to AU over UVA, especially when the OP never mentioned any interest in AU.

There's not much to disagree with here, though I'd quibble on the specialty rankings with respect to int'l law, simply because so much of the work either is academic or substantially driven by academia. The practice is unique in that your characterization of its ranking actually is useful. Same would not apply for other areas. Also, I don't see clinic program rankings necessarily fitting your characterization as purely academic; I'd be interested to hear if you think that applies to those rankings, too.

Re: unemployment rate and expenses, not going to hear me dispute that. I wasn't trying to convince OP of anything, just saw somebody who has similar interests as me and, considering that I'm well on my way with respect to those goals, thought I'd chime in. Thanks for your constructive, fact-based, and civil comments, though. It's nice to gain something from receiving a reply (other than flames from maladjusted gunners).

Specialty rankings don't matter and American is a horrible law school that should be shut down. You can't make those things not be true just because you go there and want them to not be true. It's great that you're happy with your choices but telling people to consider attending American is really, really, really messed up.

I admire the "Above it all AHEM I'm just here for reasonable discourse thank you kind sir good day to you madam (tips top hat)" schtick but please don't tell people to attend American. Someone might actually take you seriously and their life would have a high probability of being literally ruined.

OP- now that worldtraveler is here you really should follow her advice above all else

I think american will actually close its law school within the next few years

[jbagelboy]

Specialized rankings don't matter. They're not rankings of what a school has to offer students in those specialties - they're rankings by academics of academics and their work, and a given academic's placement of articles into esteemed law reviews almost never has anything to do with getting students employed in a given field.

AU does have a disproportionately high percentage of graduates go into government/public interest, as compared to firms (especially biglaw), with 21% in government and 13% in public interest (however, we don't know what kinds of jobs those are). That said, they still have an employment score of 54.6%. Their public interest score is 33.7%, but 10.4% of that is made up by school-funded jobs. And something to keep in mind is that about the same percentage of the class was unemployed as working in government. It's an incredibly expensive school. And I think from what I've seen here it's one of the only schools that demands you pay back your 1L scholarship money if you transfer.

If AU works for you, that's great. But that doesn't mean it makes sense for someone who wants to do international stuff/government to go to AU over UVA, especially when the OP never mentioned any interest in AU.

There's not much to disagree with here, though I'd quibble on the specialty rankings with respect to int'l law, simply because so much of the work either is academic or substantially driven by academia. The practice is unique in that your characterization of its ranking actually is useful. Same would not apply for other areas. Also, I don't see clinic program rankings necessarily fitting your characterization as purely academic; I'd be interested to hear if you think that applies to those rankings, too.

Re: unemployment rate and expenses, not going to hear me dispute that. I wasn't trying to convince OP of anything, just saw somebody who has similar interests as me and, considering that I'm well on my way with respect to those goals, thought I'd chime in. Thanks for your constructive, fact-based, and civil comments, though. It's nice to gain something from receiving a reply (other than flames from maladjusted gunners).

Specialty rankings don't matter and American is a horrible law school that should be shut down. You can't make those things not be true just because you go there and want them to not be true. It's great that you're happy with your choices but telling people to consider attending American is really, really, really messed up.

I admire the "Above it all AHEM I'm just here for reasonable discourse thank you kind sir good day to you madam (tips top hat)" schtick but please don't tell people to attend American. Someone might actually take you seriously and their life would have a high probability of being literally ruined.

OP- now that worldtraveler is here you really should follow her advice above all else

Ah, yes, you are smart and strong and you have authority... here on the Internet. If only you had a clue. About anything. Schools. Getting a job. Real life. The world. It's not about some high level of discourse. It's about not shrieking about things you read on here 100 times and now type it as if you read it in an encyclopedia (sorry, on Wikipedia).

Here's one thing I can say with 100% confidence and authority, though: If going to law school ruins your life (no, wait, "literally" ruins your life), here's a hint... it wasn't law school that ruined your life... it was the occasion of your birth that ruined your life.

As futile as this endeavor is, I'll try to make this "really, really, really" simple for you: you get in school, you go school. you get in better school, go better one. you get in best one, you go best one. someone say something on public forum? Listen/ignore. All okay.

The last "simple" bit is retarded. Who says whats better? Or best? The festering derelict half-breeds at the editorial staff of a commercial magazine all too obviously and reductively called "US News"? Since when were they crowned with divine omniscience? The "rankings" are a joke. Listen to yourself, goddamn.

Also the "best" option in most cases will be to not go.

[jrass]

Have you considered being an international lawyer of mystery? It's similar to being an international lawyer, but you wear more mustaches and top hats. Depending on the venue, a walking stick and cape might be involved as well. In addition to a J.D., you generally need a deck of cards, and a single dove.

[globetrotter659]

American's government employment numbers are deceptive. First, two thirds of their government grads are in state and local which is not what OP wants to do. Second, according to LST, 9 returned to their pre-JD employer. Some of these are probably military. 15 got their job through a friend. That sounds like the Hill rather than agency hiring. Don't get me wrong, the Hill can be a great place to work--I just wouldn't spend $300k to land a job I could get without a JD (if you want to work on the Hill and feel like you need an advanced degree, get a masters in PA, PP, or IR). I would be curious to know how many American grads get hired into the agency honors programs. I doubt it is significantly higher than the T14.

[Catsinthebag]

Specialized rankings don't matter. They're not rankings of what a school has to offer students in those specialties - they're rankings by academics of academics and their work, and a given academic's placement of articles into esteemed law reviews almost never has anything to do with getting students employed in a given field.

AU does have a disproportionately high percentage of graduates go into government/public interest, as compared to firms (especially biglaw), with 21% in government and 13% in public interest (however, we don't know what kinds of jobs those are). That said, they still have an employment score of 54.6%. Their public interest score is 33.7%, but 10.4% of that is made up by school-funded jobs. And something to keep in mind is that about the same percentage of the class was unemployed as working in government. It's an incredibly expensive school. And I think from what I've seen here it's one of the only schools that demands you pay back your 1L scholarship money if you transfer.

If AU works for you, that's great. But that doesn't mean it makes sense for someone who wants to do international stuff/government to go to AU over UVA, especially when the OP never mentioned any interest in AU.

There's not much to disagree with here, though I'd quibble on the specialty rankings with respect to int'l law, simply because so much of the work either is academic or substantially driven by academia. The practice is unique in that your characterization of its ranking actually is useful. Same would not apply for other areas. Also, I don't see clinic program rankings necessarily fitting your characterization as purely academic; I'd be interested to hear if you think that applies to those rankings, too.

Re: unemployment rate and expenses, not going to hear me dispute that. I wasn't trying to convince OP of anything, just saw somebody who has similar interests as me and, considering that I'm well on my way with respect to those goals, thought I'd chime in. Thanks for your constructive, fact-based, and civil comments, though. It's nice to gain something from receiving a reply (other than flames from maladjusted gunners).

Specialty rankings don't matter and American is a horrible law school that should be shut down. You can't make those things not be true just because you go there and want them to not be true. It's great that you're happy with your choices but telling people to consider attending American is really, really, really messed up.

I admire the "Above it all AHEM I'm just here for reasonable discourse thank you kind sir good day to you madam (tips top hat)" schtick but please don't tell people to attend American. Someone might actually take you seriously and their life would have a high probability of being literally ruined.

OP- now that worldtraveler is here you really should follow her advice above all else

Ah, yes, you are smart and strong and you have authority... here on the Internet. If only you had a clue. About anything. Schools. Getting a job. Real life. The world. It's not about some high level of discourse. It's about not shrieking about things you read on here 100 times and now type it as if you read it in an encyclopedia (sorry, on Wikipedia).

Here's one thing I can say with 100% confidence and authority, though: If going to law school ruins your life (no, wait, "literally" ruins your life), here's a hint... it wasn't law school that ruined your life... it was the occasion of your birth that ruined your life.

As futile as this endeavor is, I'll try to make this "really, really, really" simple for you: you get in school, you go school. you get in better school, go better one. you get in best one, you go best one. someone say something on public forum? Listen/ignore. All okay.

If you think no ones life was ruined by law school I invite you to read the Vale of Tears thread. (Or maybe look at the continual stealth layoffs and public layoffs of young associates.) American University has a less than 45.0% legal employment rate ( in any field) when you take out the school funded jobs. It's just plain irresponsible to suggest someone attend American with the hope of obtaining a job that you yourself say requires luck, connections and the ability to work for a few years with no income after graduation.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/american/

"that you yourself say requires luck, connections...." Yeah, I didn't say that, but I'm sorry to be the one introducing you to reality - that's what it's like everywhere / all jobs / all fields. You are not entitled to a job because you paid the price of admission (figuratively and literally). I know the concept is tough to grasp, but I'm here for you should you need further explanation.

[Catsinthebag]

Specialized rankings don't matter. They're not rankings of what a school has to offer students in those specialties - they're rankings by academics of academics and their work, and a given academic's placement of articles into esteemed law reviews almost never has anything to do with getting students employed in a given field.

AU does have a disproportionately high percentage of graduates go into government/public interest, as compared to firms (especially biglaw), with 21% in government and 13% in public interest (however, we don't know what kinds of jobs those are). That said, they still have an employment score of 54.6%. Their public interest score is 33.7%, but 10.4% of that is made up by school-funded jobs. And something to keep in mind is that about the same percentage of the class was unemployed as working in government. It's an incredibly expensive school. And I think from what I've seen here it's one of the only schools that demands you pay back your 1L scholarship money if you transfer.

If AU works for you, that's great. But that doesn't mean it makes sense for someone who wants to do international stuff/government to go to AU over UVA, especially when the OP never mentioned any interest in AU.

There's not much to disagree with here, though I'd quibble on the specialty rankings with respect to int'l law, simply because so much of the work either is academic or substantially driven by academia. The practice is unique in that your characterization of its ranking actually is useful. Same would not apply for other areas. Also, I don't see clinic program rankings necessarily fitting your characterization as purely academic; I'd be interested to hear if you think that applies to those rankings, too.

Re: unemployment rate and expenses, not going to hear me dispute that. I wasn't trying to convince OP of anything, just saw somebody who has similar interests as me and, considering that I'm well on my way with respect to those goals, thought I'd chime in. Thanks for your constructive, fact-based, and civil comments, though. It's nice to gain something from receiving a reply (other than flames from maladjusted gunners).

Specialty rankings don't matter and American is a horrible law school that should be shut down. You can't make those things not be true just because you go there and want them to not be true. It's great that you're happy with your choices but telling people to consider attending American is really, really, really messed up.

I admire the "Above it all AHEM I'm just here for reasonable discourse thank you kind sir good day to you madam (tips top hat)" schtick but please don't tell people to attend American. Someone might actually take you seriously and their life would have a high probability of being literally ruined.

OP- now that worldtraveler is here you really should follow her advice above all else

Ah, yes, you are smart and strong and you have authority... here on the Internet. If only you had a clue. About anything. Schools. Getting a job. Real life. The world. It's not about some high level of discourse. It's about not shrieking about things you read on here 100 times and now type it as if you read it in an encyclopedia (sorry, on Wikipedia).

Here's one thing I can say with 100% confidence and authority, though: If going to law school ruins your life (no, wait, "literally" ruins your life), here's a hint... it wasn't law school that ruined your life... it was the occasion of your birth that ruined your life.

As futile as this endeavor is, I'll try to make this "really, really, really" simple for you: you get in school, you go school. you get in better school, go better one. you get in best one, you go best one. someone say something on public forum? Listen/ignore. All okay.

The last "simple" bit is retarded. Who says whats better? Or best? The festering derelict half-breeds at the editorial staff of a commercial magazine all too obviously and reductively called "US News"? Since when were they crowned with divine omniscience? The "rankings" are a joke. Listen to yourself, goddamn.

Also the "best" option in most cases will be to not go.

Only on these forums could someone state my entire point and then try to use it as an argument against me. Then again, you used the word 'retarded' in your statement, which says all anyone needs to know about you. Since you (apparently by accident) understand that those rankings are BS, I'll end by stating I can readily admit that attending a significantly higher ranked law school than somebody else affords the person at the higher ranked school better odds of a positive outcome (e.g. employment right away in a better paying job, etc, if that's what you want). Look out now, here's some nuance, because on the other hand, if you're worth getting hired with a law degree, you're going to be hired. If not, you whine on these boards about how nobody should go to law school.

[Catsinthebag]

I'm enjoying Catsinthebag's schtick. Keep it up, kid.

But seriously OP: listen to worldtraveler. TLS is full of no-nothing law students and bitter law firm associates. There are, like, three posters in the history of TLS who actually know something about the kind of International Law you're interested in, and worldtraveler is one of them. Carefully consider her advice.

lol

[A. Nony Mouse]

I'm enjoying Catsinthebag's schtick. Keep it up, kid.

But seriously OP: listen to worldtraveler. TLS is full of no-nothing law students and bitter law firm associates. There are, like, three posters in the history of TLS who actually know something about the kind of International Law you're interested in, and worldtraveler is one of them. Carefully consider her advice.

lol

The above rpupkin post is absolutely correct. Listen to worldtraveler.

[lavarman84]

Look out now, here's some nuance, because on the other hand, if you're worth getting hired with a law degree, you're going to be hired. If not, you whine on these boards about how nobody should go to law school.

There's really no nuance to what you're saying. It's simply insulting conjecture. But you can go on thinking every law student who is worth being hired gets a real legal job if it helps you sleep better at night. However, I recommend you meet some of the people working as contract attorneys if you truly believe this.

[dihlin487]

Hello All,

I'm planning on starting law school this fall and I'm at a standstill with regards to which school I should attend. As a splitter and based on location preferences, these are the top 3 options I'm considering and how much I'd end up paying: UVA (sticker, 230k), GW (180k, but I'm hoping they'll increase my scholarship money), BU (120k, also hoping they'll increase my scholarship).

My ultimate goal is being able to pursue a career in international humanitarian or criminal law, or being able to work at a federal agency as a legal advisor or representative. My logic was that I'd go into big law for a couple of years, in order to pay off student debt, and make that transition later on.

I've done an extensive amount of research on this and am still completely confused as to how I do this. The dilemma I'm running into is reading/realizing that many of the attorneies who occupy these positions have gone to top law schools. At the same time, it seems as though the best way to get your foot in the door with the type of agencies I'd want to work for all involve fellowships, clerkships, honors programs for state departments, etc, right out of law school, where a high salary is not part of the equation. My confusion, then, is how I'm expected to pay off student loans. So, two questions: 1) If my ultimate, idealist, dream-big goal is to work somewhere like the UN, USAID, the IMF, is UVA the only option here?, 2) What pathways can I take that would allow me to pay off the debt? How do I make that transition from big law to international public interest law?

Thank you for any responses in advance I'd also appreciate any reading material that would help me answer this!

GW faculty (and ex-faculty) are fairly well known as far as international law goes. You can't go wrong there. I think this thread has derailed to a pissing match, but OP can't go wrong with GW. Strong relationships with your faculty and proactive steps towards the right agencies will land you in a position to be relevant (internationally). In my research, I don't see any entry level careers in international law (with exception to transactional or foreign equities, maybe litigation if Hague) even then those are fairly unicorn. Definitely start networking early IMO. If you are worried about the market saturation; as a 0L you can network without stressing too much. Make some travels, inquire about UN career pathways, or reach out to professors at your top schools early. I don't have the luxury of a T1 school such as yourself, but I have found being proactive to be relatively useful thus far.

Also, work on that Arabic before starting law school, you have ~3 months, since your baseline fluency isn't bad, you can easily master it to a working proficiency. If you take the year off even better. I thought I had "working proficiency" in Chinese, but unless you're immersed in the right environment (for me PE firm in HK) you never know if you are fully equipped with the right knowledge and skills. Sign up to do translation work for an Arabic translation agency, they exist at your local municipalities (less you live in Texas or Utah or some other super white place).

And to play devil's advocate (overwhelming TLS consensus I guess) --- retaking and having a better starting position relative to your peers will give you more options if this entire international humanitarian thing doesn't work out. So it is important to be open-minded to failure and have the options when it occurs. (But you aren't stuck in lower tier schools like the rest of us, so don't worry so much)

[pancakes3]

I remember when I first read Ayn Rand.

[krads153]

I'm enjoying Catsinthebag's schtick. Keep it up, kid.

But seriously OP: listen to worldtraveler. TLS is full of no-nothing law students and bitter law firm associates. There are, like, three posters in the history of TLS who actually know something about the kind of International Law you're interested in, and worldtraveler is one of them. Carefully consider her advice.

Did somebody call? (Only bumped to post this).

Fact: Practicing at a firm has made me like 300 times more bitter.

[Catsinthebag]

Look out now, here's some nuance, because on the other hand, if you're worth getting hired with a law degree, you're going to be hired. If not, you whine on these boards about how nobody should go to law school.

There's really no nuance to what you're saying. It's simply insulting conjecture. But you can go on thinking every law student who is worth being hired gets a real legal job if it helps you sleep better at night. However, I recommend you meet some of the people working as contract attorneys if you truly believe this.

Despite your mischaracterization, I'll take it every day over the self-victimization that's running rampant in this and other threads.

[lavarman84]

Look out now, here's some nuance, because on the other hand, if you're worth getting hired with a law degree, you're going to be hired. If not, you whine on these boards about how nobody should go to law school.

There's really no nuance to what you're saying. It's simply insulting conjecture. But you can go on thinking every law student who is worth being hired gets a real legal job if it helps you sleep better at night. However, I recommend you meet some of the people working as contract attorneys if you truly believe this.

Despite your mischaracterization, I'll take it every day over the self-victimization that's running rampant in this and other threads.

I'm actually not seeing any self-victimization here. I'm seeing people warning the OP not to go to a law school with poor job statistics (American). I'd call that good advice.