Is it too late for a 2024 clerkship? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Thought I wanted to do transactional at the end of 2L, so didn't apply to clerkships. Realized that transactional isn't what I'm interested in at all. My firm (NYC V10) was way too big and not what I'm looking for--the more I think about it, the more I'm interested in a DC litigation pivot, for which I think I need to clerk. I'd rather prefer to do this ASAP--I'm coming up on 30 fast and would like to be putting roots down somewhere soon.

Is there any shot at getting something in 2024 if I act ASAP? I think I've got some profs I can ask for recs (though unfortunately I took mostly transactional-focused classes, so they may not be the best), and I should be able to get a new writing sample put together by the end of the year.

Stats-wise, YSH, approximately 40% Hs, 1 book prize (in a very transactional-oriented class). Haven't taken the heavy-hitter clerking classes yet, but am in one right now and taking the rest through 3L.

[Anonymous User]

Thought I wanted to do transactional at the end of 2L, so didn't apply to clerkships. Realized that transactional isn't what I'm interested in at all. My firm (NYC V10) was way too big and not what I'm looking for--the more I think about it, the more I'm interested in a DC litigation pivot, for which I think I need to clerk. I'd rather prefer to do this ASAP--I'm coming up on 30 fast and would like to be putting roots down somewhere soon.

Is there any shot at getting something in 2024 if I act ASAP? I think I've got some profs I can ask for recs (though unfortunately I took mostly transactional-focused classes, so they may not be the best), and I should be able to get a new writing sample put together by the end of the year.

Stats-wise, YSH, approximately 40% Hs, 1 book prize (in a very transactional-oriented class). Haven't taken the heavy-hitter clerking classes yet, but am in one right now and taking the rest through 3L.

Why DC lit in particular? There could always be some last minute postings. Are you on OSCAR?

[Anonymous User]

Thought I wanted to do transactional at the end of 2L, so didn't apply to clerkships. Realized that transactional isn't what I'm interested in at all. My firm (NYC V10) was way too big and not what I'm looking for--the more I think about it, the more I'm interested in a DC litigation pivot, for which I think I need to clerk. I'd rather prefer to do this ASAP--I'm coming up on 30 fast and would like to be putting roots down somewhere soon.

Is there any shot at getting something in 2024 if I act ASAP? I think I've got some profs I can ask for recs (though unfortunately I took mostly transactional-focused classes, so they may not be the best), and I should be able to get a new writing sample put together by the end of the year.

Stats-wise, YSH, approximately 40% Hs, 1 book prize (in a very transactional-oriented class). Haven't taken the heavy-hitter clerking classes yet, but am in one right now and taking the rest through 3L.

Why DC lit in particular? There could always be some last minute postings. Are you on OSCAR?

NYC lit is too securities-focused for my taste--though that might be just my firm. Most of my law school friends were in DC for the summer and while they didn't universally love it, it seems like their firms were working on a much broader set of cases. My firm has a DC office, but it seems hard to move there if you're in litigation.

And I am, though this UI is kinda confusing tbh.

[Anonymous User]

Going to bump this so I don't have to start a new thread.

Given my stats (and assuming I can get a good trio of recs/have a good writing sample), where should I be looking? My assumption is that DC/2nd/9th would be a bit of a struggle. I have fairly strong connections to the 11th, and weaker connections to the 4th and 5th (and some mild Chicago connections)--which makes me think those could be decent plays. I'd prefer to do a CoA next year all else equal, but there are some SDNY/EDNY slots open on OSCAR that are looking mighty interesting. That said, I'm not convinced my stats would make me competitive there. NDTX and NDIL look more attainable (though still difficult obviously). Thoughts?

[Anonymous User]

Going to bump this so I don't have to start a new thread.

Given my stats (and assuming I can get a good trio of recs/have a good writing sample), where should I be looking? My assumption is that DC/2nd/9th would be a bit of a struggle. I have fairly strong connections to the 11th, and weaker connections to the 4th and 5th (and some mild Chicago connections)--which makes me think those could be decent plays. I'd prefer to do a CoA next year all else equal, but there are some SDNY/EDNY slots open on OSCAR that are looking mighty interesting. That said, I'm not convinced my stats would make me competitive there. NDTX and NDIL look more attainable (though still difficult obviously). Thoughts?

You are still thinking 2024? You cannot be choosey trying to start a clerkship in 10 months

[Anonymous User]

Going to bump this so I don't have to start a new thread.

Given my stats (and assuming I can get a good trio of recs/have a good writing sample), where should I be looking? My assumption is that DC/2nd/9th would be a bit of a struggle. I have fairly strong connections to the 11th, and weaker connections to the 4th and 5th (and some mild Chicago connections)--which makes me think those could be decent plays. I'd prefer to do a CoA next year all else equal, but there are some SDNY/EDNY slots open on OSCAR that are looking mighty interesting. That said, I'm not convinced my stats would make me competitive there. NDTX and NDIL look more attainable (though still difficult obviously). Thoughts?

You are still thinking 2024? You cannot be choosey trying to start a clerkship in 10 months

Well, 2024/2025/2026 are all in the range. I'll be shotgunning for 2024 (which has the SDNY/EDNY slots I mentioned as well as a bunch of 2nd circuit), but 2025/2026 I'll have more options and therefore need to start narrowing it down.

[Anonymous User]

Going to bump this so I don't have to start a new thread.

Given my stats (and assuming I can get a good trio of recs/have a good writing sample), where should I be looking? My assumption is that DC/2nd/9th would be a bit of a struggle. I have fairly strong connections to the 11th, and weaker connections to the 4th and 5th (and some mild Chicago connections)--which makes me think those could be decent plays. I'd prefer to do a CoA next year all else equal, but there are some SDNY/EDNY slots open on OSCAR that are looking mighty interesting. That said, I'm not convinced my stats would make me competitive there. NDTX and NDIL look more attainable (though still difficult obviously). Thoughts?

You are still thinking 2024? You cannot be choosey trying to start a clerkship in 10 months

Well, 2024/2025/2026 are all in the range. I'll be shotgunning for 2024 (which has the SDNY/EDNY slots I mentioned as well as a bunch of 2nd circuit), but 2025/2026 I'll have more options and therefore need to start narrowing it down.

If there are SDNY/EDNY slots for 2024 on OSCAR it is likely because they forgot to mark them as filled. Anyways, in the grand scheme of things, 2025 is really not that different from 2024. At this point any SDNY/EDNY slot you're getting is probably for a new judge or because a clerk had to drop out for some reason.

[Anonymous User]

You are likely a long shot for any NYC federal court, especially for 2024. Also 40% Hs is materially different at H v Y v S. S is hardest to get Hs at, H is second hardest, and Y is easiest. Judges ~generally~ know this.

[Anonymous User]

Going to bump this so I don't have to start a new thread.

Given my stats (and assuming I can get a good trio of recs/have a good writing sample), where should I be looking? My assumption is that DC/2nd/9th would be a bit of a struggle. I have fairly strong connections to the 11th, and weaker connections to the 4th and 5th (and some mild Chicago connections)--which makes me think those could be decent plays. I'd prefer to do a CoA next year all else equal, but there are some SDNY/EDNY slots open on OSCAR that are looking mighty interesting. That said, I'm not convinced my stats would make me competitive there. NDTX and NDIL look more attainable (though still difficult obviously). Thoughts?

You are still thinking 2024? You cannot be choosey trying to start a clerkship in 10 months

Well, 2024/2025/2026 are all in the range. I'll be shotgunning for 2024 (which has the SDNY/EDNY slots I mentioned as well as a bunch of 2nd circuit), but 2025/2026 I'll have more options and therefore need to start narrowing it down.

If there are SDNY/EDNY slots for 2024 on OSCAR it is likely because they forgot to mark them as filled. Anyways, in the grand scheme of things, 2025 is really not that different from 2024. At this point any SDNY/EDNY slot you're getting is probably for a new judge or because a clerk had to drop out for some reason.

Are you sure you're not looking at mag judges? It can be hard to tell which ones are mag judges until you click into the posting

[Anonymous User]

Going to bump this so I don't have to start a new thread.

Given my stats (and assuming I can get a good trio of recs/have a good writing sample), where should I be looking? My assumption is that DC/2nd/9th would be a bit of a struggle. I have fairly strong connections to the 11th, and weaker connections to the 4th and 5th (and some mild Chicago connections)--which makes me think those could be decent plays. I'd prefer to do a CoA next year all else equal, but there are some SDNY/EDNY slots open on OSCAR that are looking mighty interesting. That said, I'm not convinced my stats would make me competitive there. NDTX and NDIL look more attainable (though still difficult obviously). Thoughts?

You are still thinking 2024? You cannot be choosey trying to start a clerkship in 10 months

Well, 2024/2025/2026 are all in the range. I'll be shotgunning for 2024 (which has the SDNY/EDNY slots I mentioned as well as a bunch of 2nd circuit), but 2025/2026 I'll have more options and therefore need to start narrowing it down.

If there are SDNY/EDNY slots for 2024 on OSCAR it is likely because they forgot to mark them as filled. Anyways, in the grand scheme of things, 2025 is really not that different from 2024. At this point any SDNY/EDNY slot you're getting is probably for a new judge or because a clerk had to drop out for some reason.

Are you sure you're not looking at mag judges? It can be hard to tell which ones are mag judges until you click into the posting

Per OSCAR, Rearden, Woods, Cogan and Gardephe all have 2024 openings (and some have 2025 listed also). Leval, Sullivan, and Livingston as well.

That said, I'm not married to NYC whatsoever--I have friends there and like it, and all else being equal would like to live there for a few years, but 4/5/11 all make more sense for my career/goals (litigation in the South, particularly at an SSG's office) as far as I can tell.

[Anonymous User]

You are likely a long shot for any NYC federal court, especially for 2024. Also 40% Hs is materially different at H v Y v S. S is hardest to get Hs at, H is second hardest, and Y is easiest. Judges ~generally~ know this.

Does Y even have a real standard for Hs? And H v S is splitting hairs--30% vs 33% is going to produce what, an H more for every 30 people in a class? I hardly think S is given a boost for that.

[Anonymous User]

Going to bump this so I don't have to start a new thread.

Given my stats (and assuming I can get a good trio of recs/have a good writing sample), where should I be looking? My assumption is that DC/2nd/9th would be a bit of a struggle. I have fairly strong connections to the 11th, and weaker connections to the 4th and 5th (and some mild Chicago connections)--which makes me think those could be decent plays. I'd prefer to do a CoA next year all else equal, but there are some SDNY/EDNY slots open on OSCAR that are looking mighty interesting. That said, I'm not convinced my stats would make me competitive there. NDTX and NDIL look more attainable (though still difficult obviously). Thoughts?

You are still thinking 2024? You cannot be choosey trying to start a clerkship in 10 months

Well, 2024/2025/2026 are all in the range. I'll be shotgunning for 2024 (which has the SDNY/EDNY slots I mentioned as well as a bunch of 2nd circuit), but 2025/2026 I'll have more options and therefore need to start narrowing it down.

If there are SDNY/EDNY slots for 2024 on OSCAR it is likely because they forgot to mark them as filled. Anyways, in the grand scheme of things, 2025 is really not that different from 2024. At this point any SDNY/EDNY slot you're getting is probably for a new judge or because a clerk had to drop out for some reason.

Are you sure you're not looking at mag judges? It can be hard to tell which ones are mag judges until you click into the posting

Per OSCAR, Rearden, Woods, Cogan and Gardephe all have 2024 openings (and some have 2025 listed also). Leval, Sullivan, and Livingston as well.

That said, I'm not married to NYC whatsoever--I have friends there and like it, and all else being equal would like to live there for a few years, but 4/5/11 all make more sense for my career/goals (litigation in the South, particularly at an SSG's office) as far as I can tell.

Not sure about the others, but I know from personal knowledge that Sullivan and Livingston are filled for 24. With the exception of Rearden, I suspect that most of the others also have just not taken down their postings yet. OSCAR postings can get very outdated.

[Anonymous User]

You are likely a long shot for any NYC federal court, especially for 2024. Also 40% Hs is materially different at H v Y v S. S is hardest to get Hs at, H is second hardest, and Y is easiest. Judges ~generally~ know this.

Does Y even have a real standard for Hs? And H v S is splitting hairs--30% vs 33% is going to produce what, an H more for every 30 people in a class? I hardly think S is given a boost for that.

The gap between H and S is bigger than that. H has uncurved seminars; S doesn't. S also has some classes (especially clinic) where it's basically impossible to avoid getting a P. Graduating from H with a clean transcript is not uncommon. At S, it's almost unheard of.

[Anonymous User]

You are likely a long shot for any NYC federal court, especially for 2024. Also 40% Hs is materially different at H v Y v S. S is hardest to get Hs at, H is second hardest, and Y is easiest. Judges ~generally~ know this.

Does Y even have a real standard for Hs? And H v S is splitting hairs--30% vs 33% is going to produce what, an H more for every 30 people in a class? I hardly think S is given a boost for that.

The gap between H and S is bigger than that. H has uncurved seminars; S doesn't. S also has some classes (especially clinic) where it's basically impossible to avoid getting a P. Graduating from H with a clean transcript is not uncommon. At S, it's almost unheard of.

S sends a dean's letter with every transcript explaining that no student has graduated with all Hs since the school transitioned to the H/P grading system. So yes, especially with clinic (where everyone gets 2Hs and 1P for their quarter of work), it's essentially impossible to graduate with a clean transcript, and as alluded to above, not even seminars are exempt from the curve. This just isn't the case at H.

Another aspect of this is that at S, only one person per 15 can get a book prize. At H, that is looser.

[Anonymous User]

So yes, especially with clinic (where everyone gets 2Hs and 1P for their quarter of work)

Minor quibble, but I don't think this is accurate? You have 3 "classes" in clinic, each graded at 30% H 70% P. Assuming that you have 8 people in your clinic, that means that you have 0.3 * 8 = 2.4 Hs to distribute per class, or roughly 7 Hs all told (if we round up maybe 9 Hs).

Even in the high 9-H scenario, if you give everyone an H you only have one left over to give. In the 7-H scenario, you simply don't have enough Hs for everyone to get one.

More likely, it's that there are no/vanishingly few 3H clinic students, a couple 2H1P, the majority 1H2P, and a very small number of 3P.

[Anonymous User]

You are likely a long shot for any NYC federal court, especially for 2024. Also 40% Hs is materially different at H v Y v S. S is hardest to get Hs at, H is second hardest, and Y is easiest. Judges ~generally~ know this.

Does Y even have a real standard for Hs? And H v S is splitting hairs--30% vs 33% is going to produce what, an H more for every 30 people in a class? I hardly think S is given a boost for that.

pretty sure H is 40% H (could be wrong). if so, that's a lot more than 30% at S. I definitely credit H's much more from SLS than at HLS when i interview (obviously taking into account S takes more classes)

[Anonymous User]

Yes and Harvard's curve is not mandatory, unlike Stanford's

[Anonymous User]

H is 37% H. That is a hard cap in large classes (most black letters). The curve is "mandatory" in that sense, though professors aren't required to give that many Hs, nor are they required to give any LPs or DSes (book prizes). I don't think anyone knows what the cap is on DSes, but I'd guess it's roughly around 1/15, probably a little more generous.

ETA: There is also some kind of curve for seminars/smaller classes, but it's much more forgiving. Also can't speak to any changes in the last 2-3 years, but this was how it worked before then.

[Anonymous User]

That is incorrect (at least now). I don't know how it worked in the past. The curve is suggested, but professors can (within reason) grade to their liking.

[Anonymous User]

Sad. Know for a fact it was enforced as late as 2019! Maybe they dropped it during Covid.

[Anonymous User]

Having done clerk hiring twice, I’m pretty sure that many (if not most) judges are not going to decide between candidates with similar grades at Harvard versus Stanford based on which school allegedly has a harder curve - at that point it’ll more likely be about the rest of your resume, how awkward you are in the interview, your ideology, etc.

To OP’s question: you might as well apply and see what happens. A previous poster is right that a lot of Oscar postings are out of date, but you could luck out and be what they’re looking for. I just wouldn’t invest too much in the process/let it get you down if nothing materializes - many of the NYC judges prefer folks with experience, so you’d be a stronger candidate in a few years anyways.