Best conservative judges to clerk for? Forum

[Anonymous User]

In terms of raw intellectual horsepower -- who is the smartest conservative judge?

The name I've heard over and over again from several connected FedSoc types is Oldham

Oldham came to an HLS debate last year with Vermeule and Lessig and got dunked on. I find it hard to imagine he's the leading intellectual on the federal courts.

On Katsas: Not to be too much of a snob, but wasn't he outside the top 10% at HLS? I don't know him so could've been due to personal circumstances or his (totally legitimately) prioritizing the more important things in life. It does raise the question, however.

[Anonymous User]

In terms of raw intellectual horsepower -- who is the smartest conservative judge?

The name I've heard over and over again from several connected FedSoc types is Oldham

Oldham came to an HLS debate last year with Vermeule and Lessig and got dunked on. I find it hard to imagine he's the leading intellectual on the federal courts.

On Katsas: Not to be too much of a snob, but wasn't he outside the top 10% at HLS? I don't know him so could've been due to personal circumstances or his (totally legitimately) prioritizing the more important things in life. It does raise the question, however.

Not that it matters (lol), but Gorsuch and KBJ were also outside the top 10%. Kagan and Roberts were in.

[Anonymous User]

In terms of raw intellectual horsepower -- who is the smartest conservative judge?

The name I've heard over and over again from several connected FedSoc types is Oldham

Oldham came to an HLS debate last year with Vermeule and Lessig and got dunked on. I find it hard to imagine he's the leading intellectual on the federal courts.

On Katsas: Not to be too much of a snob, but wasn't he outside the top 10% at HLS? I don't know him so could've been due to personal circumstances or his (totally legitimately) prioritizing the more important things in life. It does raise the question, however.

Not that it matters (lol), but Gorsuch and KBJ were also outside the top 10%. Kagan and Roberts were in.

Yeah...the margins are so thin, I can hardly imagine that there's a significant intellectual difference between a person who is in the top 10% at H and someone in, say, the top 33%...

[Anonymous User]

In terms of raw intellectual horsepower -- who is the smartest conservative judge?

The name I've heard over and over again from several connected FedSoc types is Oldham

Oldham came to an HLS debate last year with Vermeule and Lessig and got dunked on. I find it hard to imagine he's the leading intellectual on the federal courts.

On Katsas: Not to be too much of a snob, but wasn't he outside the top 10% at HLS? I don't know him so could've been due to personal circumstances or his (totally legitimately) prioritizing the more important things in life. It does raise the question, however.

Not that it matters (lol), but Gorsuch and KBJ were also outside the top 10%. Kagan and Roberts were in.

I’m not sure if Kovner counts as conservative, but if we’re going by grades then she needs to be at the top of the list.

[Anonymous User]

In terms of raw intellectual horsepower -- who is the smartest conservative judge?

The name I've heard over and over again from several connected FedSoc types is Oldham

Oldham came to an HLS debate last year with Vermeule and Lessig and got dunked on. I find it hard to imagine he's the leading intellectual on the federal courts.

On Katsas: Not to be too much of a snob, but wasn't he outside the top 10% at HLS? I don't know him so could've been due to personal circumstances or his (totally legitimately) prioritizing the more important things in life. It does raise the question, however.

Not that it matters (lol), but Gorsuch and KBJ were also outside the top 10%. Kagan and Roberts were in.

Yeah...the margins are so thin, I can hardly imagine that there's a significant intellectual difference between a person who is in the top 10% at H and someone in, say, the top 33%...

I largely agree with this. But I also think there is a sizable margin between 1st in the class and the 57th, or whatever the top non-magna person's rank would be. There's a reason Felix Frankfurter and Louis Brandeis were both top of their respective HLS classes and were two of the only people to graduate summa back when it was granted purely off GPA. There's a very rare type of person for whom it isn't hard to say something bewilderingly novel and correct, over and over again. A person graduating outside the top 10% is not that guy.

[Anonymous User]

In terms of raw intellectual horsepower -- who is the smartest conservative judge?

The name I've heard over and over again from several connected FedSoc types is Oldham

Oldham came to an HLS debate last year with Vermeule and Lessig and got dunked on. I find it hard to imagine he's the leading intellectual on the federal courts.

On Katsas: Not to be too much of a snob, but wasn't he outside the top 10% at HLS? I don't know him so could've been due to personal circumstances or his (totally legitimately) prioritizing the more important things in life. It does raise the question, however.

Agree to disagree on that debate performance.

In any event, just to give one example, Oldham's Netchoice opinion was a tour de force, agree with it or not. Not saying he's the #1 intellect, but he's definitely no slouch. There's a reason he's near the top of most people's list to be the next conservative justice.

[lavarman84]

In terms of raw intellectual horsepower -- who is the smartest conservative judge?

The name I've heard over and over again from several connected FedSoc types is Oldham

Oldham came to an HLS debate last year with Vermeule and Lessig and got dunked on. I find it hard to imagine he's the leading intellectual on the federal courts.

On Katsas: Not to be too much of a snob, but wasn't he outside the top 10% at HLS? I don't know him so could've been due to personal circumstances or his (totally legitimately) prioritizing the more important things in life. It does raise the question, however.

Agree to disagree on that debate performance.

In any event, just to give one example, Oldham's Netchoice opinion was a tour de force, agree with it or not. Not saying he's the #1 intellect, but he's definitely no slouch. There's a reason he's near the top of most people's list to be the next conservative justice.

This has to be parody.

[Anonymous User]

In terms of raw intellectual horsepower -- who is the smartest conservative judge?

The name I've heard over and over again from several connected FedSoc types is Oldham

Oldham came to an HLS debate last year with Vermeule and Lessig and got dunked on. I find it hard to imagine he's the leading intellectual on the federal courts.

On Katsas: Not to be too much of a snob, but wasn't he outside the top 10% at HLS? I don't know him so could've been due to personal circumstances or his (totally legitimately) prioritizing the more important things in life. It does raise the question, however.

Agree to disagree on that debate performance.

In any event, just to give one example, Oldham's Netchoice opinion was a tour de force, agree with it or not. Not saying he's the #1 intellect, but he's definitely no slouch. There's a reason he's near the top of most people's list to be the next conservative justice.

He’s on most people’s list to be the next conservative Justice because he’s proved his fealty to the party line in politicized cases.

[Anonymous User]

In terms of raw intellectual horsepower -- who is the smartest conservative judge?

The name I've heard over and over again from several connected FedSoc types is Oldham

Oldham came to an HLS debate last year with Vermeule and Lessig and got dunked on. I find it hard to imagine he's the leading intellectual on the federal courts.

On Katsas: Not to be too much of a snob, but wasn't he outside the top 10% at HLS? I don't know him so could've been due to personal circumstances or his (totally legitimately) prioritizing the more important things in life. It does raise the question, however.

Agree to disagree on that debate performance.

In any event, just to give one example, Oldham's Netchoice opinion was a tour de force, agree with it or not. Not saying he's the #1 intellect, but he's definitely no slouch. There's a reason he's near the top of most people's list to be the next conservative justice.

He’s on most people’s list to be the next conservative Justice because he’s proved his fealty to the party line in politicized cases.

Non-conservative (at least politically), but I took a class with Oldham while in law school. I dislike his writing style (way too over the top) and I disagree with him on the merits of many salient legal issues. But I found him to be a very smart guy and much more open-minded than I would have thought. Compared to most of the judges I interviewed with for clerkships, I'd say he was clearly in the upper half, arguably at the top (albeit of a small sample size). I thought he was quite personable as well.

With that said, I would not clerk for him unless you are a true believer. He is definitely more of a "states rights" anti-federalist than an "individual liberty" anti-federalist, and I think his policy preferences bleed into his opinions more than they should. But if you fall into the same camp, I can't imagine a much better clerkship.

[Anonymous User]

In terms of raw intellectual horsepower -- who is the smartest conservative judge?

The name I've heard over and over again from several connected FedSoc types is Oldham

Oldham came to an HLS debate last year with Vermeule and Lessig and got dunked on. I find it hard to imagine he's the leading intellectual on the federal courts.

On Katsas: Not to be too much of a snob, but wasn't he outside the top 10% at HLS? I don't know him so could've been due to personal circumstances or his (totally legitimately) prioritizing the more important things in life. It does raise the question, however.

Agree to disagree on that debate performance.

In any event, just to give one example, Oldham's Netchoice opinion was a tour de force, agree with it or not. Not saying he's the #1 intellect, but he's definitely no slouch. There's a reason he's near the top of most people's list to be the next conservative justice.

This has to be parody.

I don't know why you come onto a thread for conservative applicants to discuss conservative judges for the purpose of insulting said people.

[Anonymous User]

He's not as conservative as an Oldham, but the name missing from this discussion is Bibas, who is probably the smartest judge I have ever met.

[Anonymous User]

In terms of raw intellectual horsepower -- who is the smartest conservative judge?

The name I've heard over and over again from several connected FedSoc types is Oldham

Oldham came to an HLS debate last year with Vermeule and Lessig and got dunked on. I find it hard to imagine he's the leading intellectual on the federal courts.

On Katsas: Not to be too much of a snob, but wasn't he outside the top 10% at HLS? I don't know him so could've been due to personal circumstances or his (totally legitimately) prioritizing the more important things in life. It does raise the question, however.

Not that it matters (lol), but Gorsuch and KBJ were also outside the top 10%. Kagan and Roberts were in.

Yeah...the margins are so thin, I can hardly imagine that there's a significant intellectual difference between a person who is in the top 10% at H and someone in, say, the top 33%...

I largely agree with this. But I also think there is a sizable margin between 1st in the class and the 57th, or whatever the top non-magna person's rank would be. There's a reason Felix Frankfurter and Louis Brandeis were both top of their respective HLS classes and were two of the only people to graduate summa back when it was granted purely off GPA. There's a very rare type of person for whom it isn't hard to say something bewilderingly novel and correct, over and over again. A person graduating outside the top 10% is not that guy.

No one with any experience practicing law would think that grades are this good a proxy for success. I’ve supervised some Magna H grads who are atrocious writers and consistently get lost in the weeds on obscure and irrelevant arguments. Normally, great students from good schools will be solid, but there are many exceptions. I have never noticed a difference between a cum laude from a T14 and a magna from H.

[Anonymous User]

In terms of raw intellectual horsepower -- who is the smartest conservative judge?

The name I've heard over and over again from several connected FedSoc types is Oldham

Oldham came to an HLS debate last year with Vermeule and Lessig and got dunked on. I find it hard to imagine he's the leading intellectual on the federal courts.

On Katsas: Not to be too much of a snob, but wasn't he outside the top 10% at HLS? I don't know him so could've been due to personal circumstances or his (totally legitimately) prioritizing the more important things in life. It does raise the question, however.

Agree to disagree on that debate performance.

In any event, just to give one example, Oldham's Netchoice opinion was a tour de force, agree with it or not. Not saying he's the #1 intellect, but he's definitely no slouch. There's a reason he's near the top of most people's list to be the next conservative justice.

He’s on most people’s list to be the next conservative Justice because he’s proved his fealty to the party line in politicized cases.

So has Judge Van Dyke, and with all due respect to him (and to Vivek Ramaswamy lol), no one considers Van Dyke to be nearly as strong of a candidate for SCOTUS as Oldham. Oldham is the full package -- more conservative than almost anyone else, gets the "right" outcome, and is also extremely intelligent. Hard to ask for more as a movement conservative.

Agree with one of the posters above about Bibas. He's less conservative, but it's hard to think of many judges more brilliant than him.

[Anonymous User]

Surprised by the "dunking on" comment re Oldham and Vermeule. The debate's on youtube if anyone wants to watch.

[Anonymous User]

Perez (CA2) is fantastic.

[Anonymous User]

Perez (CA2) is fantastic.

Not sure if this is a troll or simply misplaced. Safe to say not many conservatives will have Perez on their lists.

[Anonymous User]

In terms of raw intellectual horsepower -- who is the smartest conservative judge?

The name I've heard over and over again from several connected FedSoc types is Oldham

Oldham came to an HLS debate last year with Vermeule and Lessig and got dunked on. I find it hard to imagine he's the leading intellectual on the federal courts.

On Katsas: Not to be too much of a snob, but wasn't he outside the top 10% at HLS? I don't know him so could've been due to personal circumstances or his (totally legitimately) prioritizing the more important things in life. It does raise the question, however.

Agree to disagree on that debate performance.

In any event, just to give one example, Oldham's Netchoice opinion was a tour de force, agree with it or not. Not saying he's the #1 intellect, but he's definitely no slouch. There's a reason he's near the top of most people's list to be the next conservative justice.

Oldham's NetChoice opinion was ... long. But length does not make a "tour de force." The opinion contained perhaps the most shameful line I've read in an inferior court opinion: “As always, we start with the original public meaning of the Constitution's text.” (Oldham went on to chastise the platforms for not briefing on the original meaning of the First Amendment.)

Seems that Oldham is writing for the job he wants, not the job he has. But to do his job, he should begin, always, with what the Supreme Court has said the law is.

He also feigned ignorance throughout the opinion about how the platforms’ inability to censor others could restrict their rights to “say[] whatever they want to say in whatever way they want to say it.” I wonder if he would have been so befuddled about this if the law had prevented the platforms from taking down porn posted to their sites.

I'm a conservative, not a liberal here to take swipes at conservative judges. This just isn't the kind of opinion conservatives should be proud of.

[Anonymous User]

He's not as conservative as an Oldham, but the name missing from this discussion is Bibas, who is probably the smartest judge I have ever met.

Bibas is brilliant. Sutton and Kethledge are also universally respected.

[Anonymous User]

He's not as conservative as an Oldham, but the name missing from this discussion is Bibas, who is probably the smartest judge I have ever met.

Bibas is brilliant. Sutton and Kethledge are also universally respected.

What are some of Bibas’s best opinions?

[Anonymous User]

He's not as conservative as an Oldham, but the name missing from this discussion is Bibas, who is probably the smartest judge I have ever met.

Bibas is brilliant. Sutton and Kethledge are also universally respected.

What are some of Bibas’s best opinions?

Recent CA3 clerk. Not sure how to answer "best" but Bibas is consistently very thoughtful, a good writer, and a good guy within the circuit. (He also sits as a D.Ct. judge from time to time and my sense from having seen some appeals of those cases is that he did a great job there too.) In terms of raw horses, he seems like the smartest judge on the circuit; whether or not that translates to being the best judge or mentor is a different question.

I'm not juiced into FedSoc but Bibas getting elevated really surprised me. He's conservative, but he's not going to follow a line he disagrees with and isn't super-clearly a party man. He's also awkward with underdeveloped social skills. I have to think there are other conservatives in CA3 with excellent credentials who are more politically reliable and can work a room. Does anyone know the story there?

[Anonymous User]

In any event, just to give one example, Oldham's Netchoice opinion was a tour de force

No, it wasn't. Tours de force don't misconstrue SCOTUS precedent about whether editorial judgment is itself a protected exercise of First Amendment rights. But there are many good reasons to clerk for Oldham, including improving a SCOTUS clerkship application effort. Everything I have heard suggests that he is a good but very demanding boss.

[Anonymous User]

Oldham's MPP opinion was an absolute abomination

[Anonymous User]

Nobody who praises Oldham can complain about judges being “results-oriented” ever again. On the wide spectrum of the Fed Soc world he stands out as an outlier for regularly writing batshit opinions.

[Anonymous User]

Nobody who praises Oldham can complain about judges being “results-oriented” ever again. On the wide spectrum of the Fed Soc world he stands out as an outlier for regularly writing batshit opinions.

you mean *correct* opinions. happy to finally have a judge who is unafraid to be right. people may not like it, but it counterbalances how the game has been played by many others with non-conservative backgrounds for decades.

[lavarman84]

Nobody who praises Oldham can complain about judges being “results-oriented” ever again. On the wide spectrum of the Fed Soc world he stands out as an outlier for regularly writing batshit opinions.

If that's what a conservative applicant wants, he's certainly (one of) their guy(s). But the idea that he's brilliant or writing these incredible opinions when he forces a Republican W in a case they should lose is not a serious claim. Comparing his NetChoice opinion to Judge Newsom's amply demonstrates how poorly he measures up to a conservative judge who is actually brilliant and fairly principled.