Best and worst judges to clerk for Forum

[Anonymous User]

Being a new district judge on a busy court is really, really hard. I agree that the best prep is probably being a state court trial judge in a major jurisdiction or being a federal magistrate. Hours will be especially long for judges with perfectionist personalities; judges who basically rubber-stamp clerk work product generally have better hours than ones who are deep on every case.

How many years does it usually take for a new judge to really learn the ropes? Interviewing with a 2018 appointee this week, so I imagine she's figured it out, but what's a good rule of thumb.

I posted about my experience clerking for a new Biden appointee who had been a state judge--from what I can tell, about two years is what it took for the judge to feel truly comfortable. A 2018 appointee should be in a great spot in their career for you as a clerk, the learning curve is done, the judge is new enough that they're likely still open-minded, and the judge is likely young enough that you can count on them being around as a mentor for a long time.

[Anonymous User]

Being a new district judge on a busy court is really, really hard. I agree that the best prep is probably being a state court trial judge in a major jurisdiction or being a federal magistrate. Hours will be especially long for judges with perfectionist personalities; judges who basically rubber-stamp clerk work product generally have better hours than ones who are deep on every case.

How many years does it usually take for a new judge to really learn the ropes? Interviewing with a 2018 appointee this week, so I imagine she's figured it out, but what's a good rule of thumb.

I posted about my experience clerking for a new Biden appointee who had been a state judge--from what I can tell, about two years is what it took for the judge to feel truly comfortable. A 2018 appointee should be in a great spot in their career for you as a clerk, the learning curve is done, the judge is new enough that they're likely still open-minded, and the judge is likely young enough that you can count on them being around as a mentor for a long time.

Hm, so a state appellate judge bumped up to federal district within the last few months should probably be avoided? Have an interview with one of that profile coming up--he's super interesting but I'm a little skittish re his lack of trial experience.

[Anonymous User]

Being a new district judge on a busy court is really, really hard. I agree that the best prep is probably being a state court trial judge in a major jurisdiction or being a federal magistrate. Hours will be especially long for judges with perfectionist personalities; judges who basically rubber-stamp clerk work product generally have better hours than ones who are deep on every case.

How many years does it usually take for a new judge to really learn the ropes? Interviewing with a 2018 appointee this week, so I imagine she's figured it out, but what's a good rule of thumb.

I posted about my experience clerking for a new Biden appointee who had been a state judge--from what I can tell, about two years is what it took for the judge to feel truly comfortable. A 2018 appointee should be in a great spot in their career for you as a clerk, the learning curve is done, the judge is new enough that they're likely still open-minded, and the judge is likely young enough that you can count on them being around as a mentor for a long time.

Hm, so a state appellate judge bumped up to federal district within the last few months should probably be avoided? Have an interview with one of that profile coming up--he's super interesting but I'm a little skittish re his lack of trial experience.

State intermediate court judges tend to have brutal workloads so he’ll have that going for him at least. Perfectly possible his new job will be easier depending on which district it is.

[Anonymous User]

Any information on Judge Bush sixth circuit?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have a sense how Bea is to clerk for now that he's taken senior status?

[Anonymous User]

Any information on Judge Bush sixth circuit?

Apparently a relatively easy person to get along with and a very decent clerkship, with a strong clerk network.

Incredibly telegraphed hiring preferences though. Will not interview non-fedsoc candidates and will overlook a lot for someone with clear conservative priors; hired someone from my 1L class after a single semester of straight P grades (who had experience in Trump admin). Also seems to prioritize applicants who were in our religious freedom clinic or the christian legal fellowship.

[Anonymous User]

Any information on Judge Bush sixth circuit?

Apparently a relatively easy person to get along with and a very decent clerkship, with a strong clerk network.

Incredibly telegraphed hiring preferences though. Will not interview non-fedsoc candidates and will overlook a lot for someone with clear conservative priors; hired someone from my 1L class after a single semester of straight P grades (who had experience in Trump admin). Also seems to prioritize applicants who were in our religious freedom clinic or the christian legal fellowship.

I know someone who wasn't in Fed Soc who got an offer from Bush (turned down for a different clerkship). Just one data point, but I don't think there are that many judges who literally will never hire an ideological opposite.

[Anonymous User]

Any information on Judge Bush sixth circuit?

Apparently a relatively easy person to get along with and a very decent clerkship, with a strong clerk network.

Incredibly telegraphed hiring preferences though. Will not interview non-fedsoc candidates and will overlook a lot for someone with clear conservative priors; hired someone from my 1L class after a single semester of straight P grades (who had experience in Trump admin). Also seems to prioritize applicants who were in our religious freedom clinic or the christian legal fellowship.

I know someone who wasn't in Fed Soc who got an offer from Bush (turned down for a different clerkship). Just one data point, but I don't think there are that many judges who literally will never hire an ideological opposite.

Maybe its self-selection bias then to an extent; my school only tracks who clerks where, not who gets offers where. But like 15 people from my school have clerked with him in the 7 years since he was nominated and every single one of them has been fedsoc eboard

[Anonymous User]

Any information on Judge Bush sixth circuit?

I heard from a sixth circuit clerk (a lberal one, so do with that as you will) that he is apparently known to be a little weird and not in an endearing way. some weird stuff also re his confirmation hearings that I think any candidate who applies should be aware of.

[Anonymous User]

Any information on Judge Bush sixth circuit?

I know a couple Bush clerks (both involved in FedSoc leadership) and they liked their experience.

My judge, a conservative from the prior generation on a different circuit, met Bush shortly after Bush was appointed and said he "wasn't impressed"--which was a red flag, because my judge speaks highly of almost everyone. I think his impression was that Bush was a bit too transparently gung-ho on the political side of the job, which judges don't deny exists, but prefer not to be forward about.

[Anonymous User]

Random question, but do most COA/federal judges ask for their clerks to write bench memos? I’m wondering if it’s unusual that I’ve only been asked twice for bench memos in my COA clerkship, and I never wrote them at the district court. Instead, I was told to just write the first draft on the opinions, which has always struck me as odd (especially if I did not receive much substantive feedback from my judge/the panel).

I thought this might be relevant here because not having to write bench memos has made my workload very manageable, so I’d recommend clerking for judges like this if you want work/life balance. But I’m not sure if it’s just an aberration.

[Anonymous User]

Random question, but do most COA/federal judges ask for their clerks to write bench memos? I’m wondering if it’s unusual that I’ve only been asked twice for bench memos in my COA clerkship, and I never wrote them at the district court. Instead, I was told to just write the first draft on the opinions, which has always struck me as odd (especially if I did not receive much substantive feedback from my judge/the panel).

I thought this might be relevant here because not having to write bench memos has made my workload very manageable, so I’d recommend clerking for judges like this if you want work/life balance. But I’m not sure if it’s just an aberration.

I only occasionally wrote bench memos. I mostly wrote first drafts and then received varying amounts of feedback/edits. That seemed to be a fairly common approach among the judges where I clerked, but I'm not sure how common it is in other districts/circuits.

[Anonymous User]

I didn't write bench memos at all in my district court clerkship (and in fact always assumed they were a purely COA thing). Just wrote drafts of stuff on a timeline that helped the judge address the issues in court if necessary.

I did a state COA, not federal, but didn't write bench memos there, either. That seemed more judge-specific - my judge was a workaholic and happy to do their own prep for cases/oral arguments where we weren't assigned the opinion; if we were assigned the opinion, I just drafted the opinion and the judge worked from that. I think some judges did want their clerks to do bench memos for oral arguments, but I'm not sure how common it was. It was a sort of notoriously collegial court, and can imagine that different court cultures could generate different practices.

[Anonymous User]

In my circuit, it seemed that all bench memos were written by clerks. In my chambers, the clerks would draft first opinions, which was made much easier when they had drafted the bench memo (which was the case virtually 100% unless the bench memo position was in dissent or unanimously rejected by the panel).

There were bench memos for all cases that went to oral arguments. Cases resolved on the briefs generally had only opinions.

[Anonymous User]

Random question, but do most COA/federal judges ask for their clerks to write bench memos? I’m wondering if it’s unusual that I’ve only been asked twice for bench memos in my COA clerkship, and I never wrote them at the district court. Instead, I was told to just write the first draft on the opinions, which has always struck me as odd (especially if I did not receive much substantive feedback from my judge/the panel).

I thought this might be relevant here because not having to write bench memos has made my workload very manageable, so I’d recommend clerking for judges like this if you want work/life balance. But I’m not sure if it’s just an aberration.

In my experience, it depends on the complexity of the case (though of course practices differ by judge) - if the case is pretty straightforward and is submitted on the briefs/going to be unpublished, then it makes sense to skip the bench memo and just draft the opinion. I remember not doing that many bench memos because at least half the cases from any sitting ended up being submitted on the briefs, and on the circuits where judges pool bench memos (CA6 and CA9 at least, idk if any others), it definitely means a lighter workload for the clerks and more efficiency in getting opinions out.

Also usually did not write bench memos while I was a district court clerk, but I've heard of others who did - seems like there's more variation among district judges because they operate more independently that circuit judges.

[lavarman84]

Random question, but do most COA/federal judges ask for their clerks to write bench memos? I’m wondering if it’s unusual that I’ve only been asked twice for bench memos in my COA clerkship, and I never wrote them at the district court. Instead, I was told to just write the first draft on the opinions, which has always struck me as odd (especially if I did not receive much substantive feedback from my judge/the panel).

I thought this might be relevant here because not having to write bench memos has made my workload very manageable, so I’d recommend clerking for judges like this if you want work/life balance. But I’m not sure if it’s just an aberration.

I can only recall writing memorandums a couple times at the district court level. Our norm was just to write a draft order/opinion and then give it to the judge. At the COA level, I did write the bench memos for my cases where we were tasked with it (the circuit I clerked on shared memos). I occasionally wrote bench memos for other cases when my judge wanted a second opinion. But because our COA shared bench memos, my workload was still very manageable (usually worked a 9-5 without any weekend work).

[Anonymous User]

Random question, but do most COA/federal judges ask for their clerks to write bench memos? I’m wondering if it’s unusual that I’ve only been asked twice for bench memos in my COA clerkship, and I never wrote them at the district court. Instead, I was told to just write the first draft on the opinions, which has always struck me as odd (especially if I did not receive much substantive feedback from my judge/the panel).

I thought this might be relevant here because not having to write bench memos has made my workload very manageable, so I’d recommend clerking for judges like this if you want work/life balance. But I’m not sure if it’s just an aberration.

Most judges on CA9 do, and they'll share them with the panel so the cases get divvied up. A few judges will receive bench memos but won't provide them. One or two won't even receive them.

If the case is an obvious mem dispo, no need for a bench memo (unless requested).

They're definitely time consuming, though it ensures someone has been over the record in detail.

[thegamer123]

Anyone knows what kind of clerks bumatay hires? Like top tier grades from top tier schools plus fed soc? Or

[Anonymous User]

Anyone knows what kind of clerks bumatay hires? Like top tier grades from top tier schools plus fed soc? Or

Supposedly he's trying to become a feeder (though I don't think he's fed any yet) so he's pretty aggressive about top grades/top school. I was reasonably competitive for COA clerkships at HYS and was specifically told Bumatay would be a pretty severe reach (same with Bress, fwiw).

[Anonymous User]

Anyone knows what kind of clerks bumatay hires? Like top tier grades from top tier schools plus fed soc? Or

His hires from my T6 have all been fedsoc affiliated students that graduated without honors or main journal. Maybe different now, if he has an interest in becoming a feeder.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone knows what kind of clerks bumatay hires? Like top tier grades from top tier schools plus fed soc? Or

Supposedly he's trying to become a feeder (though I don't think he's fed any yet) so he's pretty aggressive about top grades/top school. I was reasonably competitive for COA clerkships at HYS and was specifically told Bumatay would be a pretty severe reach (same with Bress, fwiw).

I don't think this is true at all. I graduated fairly recently and his focus was very heavily on fed soc ties. He even hired a classmate after just his first semester grades.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone knows what kind of clerks bumatay hires? Like top tier grades from top tier schools plus fed soc? Or

Supposedly he's trying to become a feeder (though I don't think he's fed any yet) so he's pretty aggressive about top grades/top school. I was reasonably competitive for COA clerkships at HYS and was specifically told Bumatay would be a pretty severe reach (same with Bress, fwiw).

I don't think this is true at all. I graduated fairly recently and his focus was very heavily on fed soc ties. He even hired a classmate after just his first semester grades.

I was FedSoc board and (roughly) top-third at HYS, and told that was insufficient (the specific words, from someone who would definitely know, was "probably disqualifying") for Bumatay earlier this year. Meanwhile other moderately-grade-sensitive COAs were more than willing to interview me.

Edit: also, I do think there's a distinction between 1L hires and later hires. Lots of FedSoc judges hire based on stellar 1L grades and then the future clerks slack off, while later hires are held to a consistently high standard.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone knows what kind of clerks bumatay hires? Like top tier grades from top tier schools plus fed soc? Or

Supposedly he's trying to become a feeder (though I don't think he's fed any yet) so he's pretty aggressive about top grades/top school. I was reasonably competitive for COA clerkships at HYS and was specifically told Bumatay would be a pretty severe reach (same with Bress, fwiw).

Bress is definitely trying to be a feeder and is very picky looking for SCOTUS-caliber applicants

[Anonymous User]

Anyone knows what kind of clerks bumatay hires? Like top tier grades from top tier schools plus fed soc? Or

Supposedly he's trying to become a feeder (though I don't think he's fed any yet) so he's pretty aggressive about top grades/top school. I was reasonably competitive for COA clerkships at HYS and was specifically told Bumatay would be a pretty severe reach (same with Bress, fwiw).

Bress is definitely trying to be a feeder and is very picky looking for SCOTUS-caliber applicants

Can confirm.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone knows what kind of clerks bumatay hires? Like top tier grades from top tier schools plus fed soc? Or

Supposedly he's trying to become a feeder (though I don't think he's fed any yet) so he's pretty aggressive about top grades/top school. I was reasonably competitive for COA clerkships at HYS and was specifically told Bumatay would be a pretty severe reach (same with Bress, fwiw).

Bress is definitely trying to be a feeder and is very picky looking for SCOTUS-caliber applicants

Can confirm.

I've also heard this about Bress. Haven't heard of Bumatay being as picky (more that he cares about ideology), but it's always possible that he's changing things up.