Clerks Taking Questions Forum

[Anonymous User]

Does TAing for a core doctrinal move the needle at all (besides the additional value-add of an improved rec)?

Wouldn't for me, in a fairly intense COA chambers. Priorities are intellectual horsepower, writing ability, and agreeableness. It could conceivably speak to the last of those, but your letters will probably cover that territory regardless.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone here know anything about MoloLamken? Thinking about submitting an application for a post-clerkship position (I finish up in March) but haven't heard much about the firm.

[Anonymous User]

I went through MoloLamken's interview process for a post-clerkship position a few cycles back. As advertised on this board, they basically make you interview with every Associate, Of Counsel, and most the Partners. ML is completely transparent about this, providing a long memo about their process at the start.

It was a long process. I started off very interested in ML and grew less so as the rounds of interviews wore on. After completing a final round, they never followed up to tell me that they had dinged me. I'm more annoyed now, as I think back to how much time I sunk into their overlong process, about how it played out. At the time, I was entirely at peace with the rejection because I really had no desire to work there anyway.

[Anonymous User]

How do you/your judge view applications from transactional attorneys who want to use a clerkship to pivot to litigation?

Bumping this. I assume transactional attorneys would have a harder time snagging an interview, is that an unfounded assumption? Any tips for things to focus on in app materials/an interview to sell transactional experience? Assume I am otherwise competitive (grades, school, big name firm).

[Anonymous User]

How do you/your judge view applications from transactional attorneys who want to use a clerkship to pivot to litigation?

Bumping this. I assume transactional attorneys would have a harder time snagging an interview, is that an unfounded assumption? Any tips for things to focus on in app materials/an interview to sell transactional experience? Assume I am otherwise competitive (grades, school, big name firm).

Honestly I don't think my judge (appellate) would see transactional as a negative. To the extent she wanted experience it was because she didn't want a KJD who never worked a job coming in here. Most of what we do in the circuit world is basically law school 2.0. Your "sell" is going to be less your transactional experience and more your working in biglaw pressure experience. Could potentially be helpful to mention you are looking to pivot to litigation in the interview or cover letter to clear this up.

[Anonymous User]

How do you/your judge view applications from transactional attorneys who want to use a clerkship to pivot to litigation?

Bumping this. I assume transactional attorneys would have a harder time snagging an interview, is that an unfounded assumption? Any tips for things to focus on in app materials/an interview to sell transactional experience? Assume I am otherwise competitive (grades, school, big name firm).

On a similar note, most of the classes I've taken so far in LS (I'm a 3L now) are transactional-oriented. Does it make sense to highlight that as a way to make me stand out from the pack (especially if my experience is very focused on one particular subsector of financial services, e.g. VC for NDCA/the 9th), or should I focus more on the few (but not zero) traditional litigation creds I have?

Edit: if it changes the calculation, not a KJD (~3 years interesting WE pre-law)

[Anonymous User]

I went through MoloLamken's interview process for a post-clerkship position a few cycles back. As advertised on this board, they basically make you interview with every Associate, Of Counsel, and most the Partners. ML is completely transparent about this, providing a long memo about their process at the start.

It was a long process. I started off very interested in ML and grew less so as the rounds of interviews wore on. After completing a final round, they never followed up to tell me that they had dinged me. I'm more annoyed now, as I think back to how much time I sunk into their overlong process, about how it played out. At the time, I was entirely at peace with the rejection because I really had no desire to work there anyway.

Thanks for the response, and sorry you had to go through that. Making candidates interview 20-30 attorneys and then never following up with a decision seems supremely shitty of them. You'd think that it would not be that difficult to send a boilerplate rejection email if you ding someone.

Can you get into what made you less interested as the interview rounds went on? The personalities of the attorneys or was it something else?

[Anonymous User]

How do you/your judge view applications from transactional attorneys who want to use a clerkship to pivot to litigation?

Bumping this. I assume transactional attorneys would have a harder time snagging an interview, is that an unfounded assumption? Any tips for things to focus on in app materials/an interview to sell transactional experience? Assume I am otherwise competitive (grades, school, big name firm).

On a similar note, most of the classes I've taken so far in LS (I'm a 3L now) are transactional-oriented. Does it make sense to highlight that as a way to make me stand out from the pack (especially if my experience is very focused on one particular subsector of financial services, e.g. VC for NDCA/the 9th), or should I focus more on the few (but not zero) traditional litigation creds I have?

Edit: if it changes the calculation, not a KJD (~3 years interesting WE pre-law)

You could highlght this to the extent you also took or are taking the core clerkship litigation classes (Evidence, Fed Courts, Crim Pro, Admin, etc). If you took literally none of those I'd be careful because highlighting that you took mergers and acquisitions is less of a flex and more of a statement that "hey judge I didn't take the core clerkship classes you want."

[Anonymous User]

How do you/your judge view applications from transactional attorneys who want to use a clerkship to pivot to litigation?

Bumping this. I assume transactional attorneys would have a harder time snagging an interview, is that an unfounded assumption? Any tips for things to focus on in app materials/an interview to sell transactional experience? Assume I am otherwise competitive (grades, school, big name firm).

On a similar note, most of the classes I've taken so far in LS (I'm a 3L now) are transactional-oriented. Does it make sense to highlight that as a way to make me stand out from the pack (especially if my experience is very focused on one particular subsector of financial services, e.g. VC for NDCA/the 9th), or should I focus more on the few (but not zero) traditional litigation creds I have?

Edit: if it changes the calculation, not a KJD (~3 years interesting WE pre-law)

You could highlght this to the extent you also took or are taking the core clerkship litigation classes (Evidence, Fed Courts, Crim Pro, Admin, etc). If you took literally none of those I'd be careful because highlighting that you took mergers and acquisitions is less of a flex and more of a statement that "hey judge I didn't take the core clerkship classes you want."

Yeah agreed - the judges I clerked for didn’t care about what classes an applicant took as long as they did well, but for judges that do care, it’s at least partly because they want applicants who have some familiarity with the areas of law that come up a lot during the clerkship.

Honestly, I wouldn’t be relying on law school classes to distinguish yourself - having a professor call chambers or mentioning any ties you have to the district/circuit/judge are more effective. There are also at least a few judges who have a transactional background (Carolyn King on CA5 comes to mind), so it might be worth targeting them.

[Anonymous User]

I went through MoloLamken's interview process for a post-clerkship position a few cycles back. As advertised on this board, they basically make you interview with every Associate, Of Counsel, and most the Partners. ML is completely transparent about this, providing a long memo about their process at the start.

It was a long process. I started off very interested in ML and grew less so as the rounds of interviews wore on. After completing a final round, they never followed up to tell me that they had dinged me. I'm more annoyed now, as I think back to how much time I sunk into their overlong process, about how it played out. At the time, I was entirely at peace with the rejection because I really had no desire to work there anyway.

Thanks for the response, and sorry you had to go through that. Making candidates interview 20-30 attorneys and then never following up with a decision seems supremely shitty of them. You'd think that it would not be that difficult to send a boilerplate rejection email if you ding someone.

Can you get into what made you less interested as the interview rounds went on? The personalities of the attorneys or was it something else?

The number of interviews that seemed to lack much chemistry or "flow" really seemed to pile up. I think that, in the beginning, there was some effort to select interviewers who had more in common or shared a substantive interest. That meant that as the interviews wore on, there was less obvious connection with the interviewers. As a result, I started to have a few interviews that felt pretty stilted. I think these experiences resulted from a combination of certain interviewers seeming pretty disinterested and my fatigue making it more difficult for me to carry the entire conversation. I'm not saying this to dog on them. Being in practice now, I can see how burdensome ML's process would be for the attorneys as well as the interviewees.

Beyond that, I articulated a specific interest (which is a significant practice for ML), but they kept reiterating that, given the size of the firm, they need all the associates to contribute across all types of cases where necessary. That's totally understandable, and I appreciated them being transparent about that. But it also decreased my interest relative to other firms where developing more of a focused practice from the outset was feasible.

I don't regret going through their process. I was intrigued by the firm at the outset (it did check many boxes for me) and the interviews were the way that I learned it maybe wasn't the best possible fit for me. Apparently they also realized that I probably wasn't the best fit for them. I wouldn't discourage you from applying, and I would want to emphasize that nothing that made me want to work there was anything like a universal "red flag" that should give any potential candidate pause. They were all small things that added up but were largely personal to my specific circumstances.

[axiomaticapiary]

Possible rube question, how do people find addresses of judges to list on your cover letter when they don't sit in the main courthouse and it's not on OSCAR or the court's website?

For instance, Wilkinson of CA4 recently opened up on OSCAR. He sits in Charlottesville. Nothing on either website about an address to list on a cover letter. His page on Westlaw also just lists the main CA4 location in Richmond. Maybe he sits in the Charlottesville building of W.D. Va. but seems vaguely risky to just guess that with no indication he actually does. What address to list on cover letter?

[Anonymous User]

Possible rube question, how do people find addresses of judges to list on your cover letter when they don't sit in the main courthouse and it's not on OSCAR or the court's website?

For instance, Wilkinson of CA4 recently opened up on OSCAR. He sits in Charlottesville. Nothing on either website about an address to list on a cover letter. His page on Westlaw also just lists the main CA4 location in Richmond. Maybe he sits in the Charlottesville building of W.D. Va. but seems vaguely risky to just guess that with no indication he actually does. What address to list on cover letter?

Your school's clerkship office should either have a directory itself or offer access to a directory service like Leadership Connect or the Almanac of the Federal Judiciary.

[Anonymous User]

Possible rube question, how do people find addresses of judges to list on your cover letter when they don't sit in the main courthouse and it's not on OSCAR or the court's website?

For instance, Wilkinson of CA4 recently opened up on OSCAR. He sits in Charlottesville. Nothing on either website about an address to list on a cover letter. His page on Westlaw also just lists the main CA4 location in Richmond. Maybe he sits in the Charlottesville building of W.D. Va. but seems vaguely risky to just guess that with no indication he actually does. What address to list on cover letter?

Wilkinson sits in the W.D. Va. courthouse. But just as an FYI, if you're asking us for his address instead of having your school pull together materials and line up recommenders for you, you're almost certainly not in the running. Wilkinson hires the top person or two in the class at UVA, and then select people from HYS.

[Anonymous User]

Possible rube question, how do people find addresses of judges to list on your cover letter when they don't sit in the main courthouse and it's not on OSCAR or the court's website?

For instance, Wilkinson of CA4 recently opened up on OSCAR. He sits in Charlottesville. Nothing on either website about an address to list on a cover letter. His page on Westlaw also just lists the main CA4 location in Richmond. Maybe he sits in the Charlottesville building of W.D. Va. but seems vaguely risky to just guess that with no indication he actually does. What address to list on cover letter?

Wilkinson sits in the W.D. Va. courthouse. But just as an FYI, if you're asking us for his address instead of having your school pull together materials and line up recommenders for you, you're almost certainly not in the running. Wilkinson hires the top person or two in the class at UVA, and then select people from HYS.

Lol as someone who clerked for a similar judge this is gatekeeping bs. you still have to mail in an app even if you’re one of the top few students at UVA, and Wilkinson isn’t quite as selective anymore. And anyway what exactly is the point of insulting an anon you know nothing about?

[Anonymous User]

What judges are actually interested in federal indian law? Like I know the 8th/9th/10th have a lot of indian country cases, but are there any (especially CoA) judges who are particularly interested in the subject/would give a boost to a potential clerk who's also interested?

[Anonymous User]

What judges are actually interested in federal indian law? Like I know the 8th/9th/10th have a lot of indian country cases, but are there any (especially CoA) judges who are particularly interested in the subject/would give a boost to a potential clerk who's also interested?

Judge Eid’s husband (Troy Eid) is a top Indian law litigator. Lauren King and Diane Humetawa are federal district judges with Indian law backgrounds.

[Anonymous User]

What judges are actually interested in federal indian law? Like I know the 8th/9th/10th have a lot of indian country cases, but are there any (especially CoA) judges who are particularly interested in the subject/would give a boost to a potential clerk who's also interested?

On the Ninth, there's not really anyone since Canby retired, but the top students interested in Indian law who I know have seemed to gravitate toward Sidney Thomas, McKeown, Fletcher. Not sure if Johnstone will also join that mix now that he's on the court.

[axiomaticapiary]

Possible rube question, how do people find addresses of judges to list on your cover letter when they don't sit in the main courthouse and it's not on OSCAR or the court's website?

For instance, Wilkinson of CA4 recently opened up on OSCAR. He sits in Charlottesville. Nothing on either website about an address to list on a cover letter. His page on Westlaw also just lists the main CA4 location in Richmond. Maybe he sits in the Charlottesville building of W.D. Va. but seems vaguely risky to just guess that with no indication he actually does. What address to list on cover letter?

Wilkinson sits in the W.D. Va. courthouse. But just as an FYI, if you're asking us for his address instead of having your school pull together materials and line up recommenders for you, you're almost certainly not in the running. Wilkinson hires the top person or two in the class at UVA, and then select people from HYS.

The point of the question is just generally how to find addresses of judges that are not on OSCAR or the court's website, not anything specific to Wilkinson. The whole "if you're a pleb who doesn't have an in, you might as well give up" thing is cute but getting old.

[Anonymous User]

Possible rube question, how do people find addresses of judges to list on your cover letter when they don't sit in the main courthouse and it's not on OSCAR or the court's website?

For instance, Wilkinson of CA4 recently opened up on OSCAR. He sits in Charlottesville. Nothing on either website about an address to list on a cover letter. His page on Westlaw also just lists the main CA4 location in Richmond. Maybe he sits in the Charlottesville building of W.D. Va. but seems vaguely risky to just guess that with no indication he actually does. What address to list on cover letter?

Wilkinson sits in the W.D. Va. courthouse. But just as an FYI, if you're asking us for his address instead of having your school pull together materials and line up recommenders for you, you're almost certainly not in the running. Wilkinson hires the top person or two in the class at UVA, and then select people from HYS.

As someone who got a clerkship/positions that I “shouldn’t have” according to people like you, I join the chorus of posters who point out correctly that your brand of snobbery is getting stale.

To answer the question, it can be difficult. (I was able to figure out the exact addresses from the internal court mailing system, but I had permission/was already clerking by that point.) You also have to be careful about calling chambers to verify where the judge sits. It wouldn’t be a problem for some judges, but it could be a no-no for other chambers staff. In general, I would just send it to the building listed on OSCAR unless you hear otherwise from someone in the know or feel like it’s ok to call and see.

[Anonymous User]

Sorry if this is supposed to be obvious. I passed the July NYBE, but still need to clear New York’s C&F before being admitted (which will probably be another few months). I know that I list my position as Law Clerk on my resume until admission - but, if I’m sending clerkship apps in the interim, am I supposed to note somewhere that I passed the exam? Will judges worry why I haven’t been admitted yet if I don’t?

[Anonymous User]

What judges are actually interested in federal indian law? Like I know the 8th/9th/10th have a lot of indian country cases, but are there any (especially CoA) judges who are particularly interested in the subject/would give a boost to a potential clerk who's also interested?

On the Ninth, there's not really anyone since Canby retired, but the top students interested in Indian law who I know have seemed to gravitate toward Sidney Thomas, McKeown, Fletcher. Not sure if Johnstone will also join that mix now that he's on the court.

I'm really curious about Johnstone, but he's so new that there's no data on him.

[Anonymous User]

What judges are actually interested in federal indian law? Like I know the 8th/9th/10th have a lot of indian country cases, but are there any (especially CoA) judges who are particularly interested in the subject/would give a boost to a potential clerk who's also interested?

On the Ninth, there's not really anyone since Canby retired, but the top students interested in Indian law who I know have seemed to gravitate toward Sidney Thomas, McKeown, Fletcher. Not sure if Johnstone will also join that mix now that he's on the court.

I know someone with a strong interest in Indian law who clerked for Graber, as another data point.

[Anonymous User]

Potentially dumb question, but I just wanted to confirm/get clarification. Was recently talking to a fellow co-clerk and he said people have/can negotiate clerkship bonuses. This will be my second clerkship so I will be joining the firm I summered at as a third year plus 70k clerkship bonus. The firm is V10. I always assumed that I had no real negotiating power and the clerkship bonus was a take it or leave it proposition. My co-clerk insists that I should ask for something higher than 70k, particularly since other firms have higher signing bonuses.

It just feels weird to me to try this since I worry this is both a faux pas and also will have me start on the wrong foot. Plus 70k is a lot of money too me and I am very grateful for it.

[Anonymous User]

What judges are actually interested in federal indian law? Like I know the 8th/9th/10th have a lot of indian country cases, but are there any (especially CoA) judges who are particularly interested in the subject/would give a boost to a potential clerk who's also interested?

On the Ninth, there's not really anyone since Canby retired, but the top students interested in Indian law who I know have seemed to gravitate toward Sidney Thomas, McKeown, Fletcher. Not sure if Johnstone will also join that mix now that he's on the court.

I know someone with a strong interest in Indian law who clerked for Graber, as another data point.

Clerked for a moderate R-appointee on the 9th Circuit. Indian law was by no means the judge's "specialty," (as much as a CoA judge can have a specialty) but the judge found it fascinating and definitely would have given a bump to someone who mentioned an interest in the subject on their cover letter. We liked folks who showed a substantive interest in the law and in the Ninth Circuit, and expressing an interest in Indian law accomplishes both. My impression is that most judges (on any of the circuits mentioned) would feel the same. That said, whether you will actually work on Indian law cases generally depends more on how your court and judge assign writing responsibilities than on any area of interest your judge may have.

[Anonymous User]

What judges are actually interested in federal indian law? Like I know the 8th/9th/10th have a lot of indian country cases, but are there any (especially CoA) judges who are particularly interested in the subject/would give a boost to a potential clerk who's also interested?

On the Ninth, there's not really anyone since Canby retired, but the top students interested in Indian law who I know have seemed to gravitate toward Sidney Thomas, McKeown, Fletcher. Not sure if Johnstone will also join that mix now that he's on the court.

I know someone with a strong interest in Indian law who clerked for Graber, as another data point.

Clerked for a moderate R-appointee on the 9th Circuit. Indian law was by no means the judge's "specialty," (as much as a CoA judge can have a specialty) but the judge found it fascinating and definitely would have given a bump to someone who mentioned an interest in the subject on their cover letter. We liked folks who showed a substantive interest in the law and in the Ninth Circuit, and expressing an interest in Indian law accomplishes both. My impression is that most judges (on any of the circuits mentioned) would feel the same. That said, whether you will actually work on Indian law cases generally depends more on how your court and judge assign writing responsibilities than on any area of interest your judge may have.

Conservative CA9 judges also notice heavy interest in federal Indian law