Biden Judicial Nominees Predictions Forum

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Re: Biden Judicial Nominees Predictions

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:28 pm
It might be soon too to judge, but does anyone else feel like the Biden district court nominees so far are a little bit underwhelming? Most seem well-qualified but some are just random local lawyers and there doesn't seem to be as much of an effort to get young top talent on the bench compared to Trump
What makes for a "well-qualified" nominee?

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Re: Biden Judicial Nominees Predictions

Post by polareagle » Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:28 pm
It might be soon too to judge, but does anyone else feel like the Biden district court nominees so far are a little bit underwhelming? Most seem well-qualified but some are just random local lawyers and there doesn't seem to be as much of an effort to get young top talent on the bench compared to Trump
Counterpoint, being a hot shot young appellate-focused former Thomas clerk is impressive but not even close to the best preparation for being a district court judge. When I'm practicing before judges, I much prefer the ones who actually litigated for decades and know what they're talking about/doing vs. the ones who are trying to write the next great pre-appellate opinion as an audition for a circuit court judgeship.

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Re: Biden Judicial Nominees Predictions

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:14 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:28 pm
It might be soon too to judge, but does anyone else feel like the Biden district court nominees so far are a little bit underwhelming? Most seem well-qualified but some are just random local lawyers and there doesn't seem to be as much of an effort to get young top talent on the bench compared to Trump
What makes for a "well-qualified" nominee?
Different poster than the quoted. I would guess these comments reference the new judges' objective credentials (law school, class rank, clerkship(s), government service, etc.). FedSoc cares a lot about these metrics. Biden, like Obama, seems willing to nominate judges from a wider range of backgrounds. I've heard it argued that this is why few of Obama's appointees compete with Clinton's as liberal feeders.

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Re: Biden Judicial Nominees Predictions

Post by nixy » Sat May 01, 2021 7:48 am

I’m not sure those “objective” credentials speak to experience/ability to be a judge, though, rather than just prestige.

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Re: Biden Judicial Nominees Predictions

Post by Anonymous User » Sat May 01, 2021 8:24 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:28 pm
It might be soon too to judge, but does anyone else feel like the Biden district court nominees so far are a little bit underwhelming? Most seem well-qualified but some are just random local lawyers and there doesn't seem to be as much of an effort to get young top talent on the bench compared to Trump
Because they’re not young, incompetent ideologues without any experience, they’re “underwhelming?”

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Re: Biden Judicial Nominees Predictions

Post by Quichelorraine » Sat May 01, 2021 10:42 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 8:24 am
Because they’re not young, incompetent ideologues without any experience, they’re “underwhelming?”
It's an odd system we have. Hypothetical 36-year-old Thomas clerk who wrote an article about how mandating safety features on band-saws is just like the Holocaust gets appointed to be a district judge after 1 year of practice, sends clerks to W. Pryor and Livingston, fills F. Supp. 3d with novel theories about the second amendment/non-delegation/dormant commerce clause, and RISING STAR/POTENTIAL FEEDER? It happens each cycle.

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Re: Biden Judicial Nominees Predictions

Post by Necho2 » Sat May 01, 2021 10:45 am

Yeah the other point is that i think a fair number of the D Ct folks are unfinished business from the Obama-era, which makes sense from a vetting perspective but also doesn't mean they're intended to be the "top nominees" (to the extent that has any meaning, which it doesn't really) for the administration.

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Re: Biden Judicial Nominees Predictions

Post by Samizdat » Sat May 01, 2021 11:42 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 8:24 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:28 pm
It might be soon too to judge, but does anyone else feel like the Biden district court nominees so far are a little bit underwhelming? Most seem well-qualified but some are just random local lawyers and there doesn't seem to be as much of an effort to get young top talent on the bench compared to Trump
Because they’re not young, incompetent ideologues without any experience, they’re “underwhelming?”
It's also just wrong. This thread keeps referencing *one* Trump-appointed district court judge (Kathryn Mizelle). The only other Trump district court appointee with similar credentials outside of a major metro area was Justin Walker. Even the Trump judges in DDC and SDNY didn't have similar credentials -- Florence Pan is just as impressive as Trevor McFadden, Tim Kelly, and Dabney Friedrich.

The COA appointees are a different story, but there is no metric along which Biden's three COA appointees are unimpressive.

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Re: Biden Judicial Nominees Predictions

Post by Anonymous User » Sat May 01, 2021 12:15 pm

Seats in WD Wash, D Md, D Colo, and D NJ, plus the EDVA seat for which the picks have been announced, should be prime opportunities to get young progressives onto the bench. Those are all major metros with no blue slip problems.

The DDC and Maryland picks aren’t bad, and the circuit ones are very good IMO, but there’s no way to see e.g. a management-side L&E partner at a midsized firm, one of the DNJ picks, to be anything but underwhelming. Competence and experience are great but it’s not like there’s a shortage of youngish competent progressives with flashy credentials in major metros, and in theory there should be a wider network of them than for Trump. I’m a both/and rather than an either/or guy. E.g. Strickland in D N.M. seems like the sort of person I’m looking for.

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Re: Biden Judicial Nominees Predictions

Post by Anonymous User » Sat May 01, 2021 12:30 pm

There were a *lot* of Trump judges with flashy credentials outside of major metros, especially in red states without blue slip problems—Brasher, Manasco, and Maze just in Alabama for example. Or Barker, Kernodle, Kacsmaryk, and Hendrix to non-metropolitan areas in TX. I take the point that appellate experience isn’t necessarily very helpful, and that Trump appointed plenty of random local Fed Soc law firm partners too, but many of these people are both/and nominees who are experienced, young, flashily credentialed, and demonstrably committed to the cause.

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Re: Biden Judicial Nominees Predictions

Post by Anonymous User » Sat May 01, 2021 12:54 pm

Quichelorraine wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 10:42 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 8:24 am
Because they’re not young, incompetent ideologues without any experience, they’re “underwhelming?”
It's an odd system we have. Hypothetical 36-year-old Thomas clerk who wrote an article about how mandating safety features on band-saws is just like the Holocaust gets appointed to be a district judge after 1 year of practice, sends clerks to W. Pryor and Livingston, fills F. Supp. 3d with novel theories about the second amendment/non-delegation/dormant commerce clause, and RISING STAR/POTENTIAL FEEDER? It happens each cycle.
What's odd about that? The legal profession obsesses over prestige. When a shiny new penny joins the judiciary, people notice. As for Kat Mizelle, I've met her twice. She's all the way brilliant and capable. I have no idea why she is the go-to example of incompetence. Our judiciary is riddled with judges who couldn't distinguish personal jurisdiction from subject matter jurisdiction if their very lives depended on it. If I were a litigant (plaintiff or defendant) I would sooner have Kat Mizelle presiding than many, perhaps most, district court judges in Florida.

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Re: Biden Judicial Nominees Predictions

Post by nixy » Sat May 01, 2021 1:32 pm

Everything about her record suggests Mizelle is perfectly smart and capable. It's still just not common to appoint someone who's her age who has as little practice experience as she has - yes, clerking, whatever, but it looks like she actually practiced law for 5 years or less. That's kind of ridiculous. I have more practice experience than that and wouldn't feel comfortable becoming a district court judge. It doesn't mean she can't learn and who knows, maybe it will be part of a trend away from expecting 12+ years of experience for judges, for good or for evil. But wrt to the both/and argument, you should be able to find plenty of people with great credentials *and* more than 5 years of practice experience, who are still 40 or under and will be on the bench for a long time. Criticisms of her appointment aren't saying she's not capable, just that the appointment is premature.

(The academic institutions she attended also aren't names that wow people, especially her undergrad, but that part is mostly silly given her academic success.)

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Re: Biden Judicial Nominees Predictions

Post by Anonymous User » Sat May 01, 2021 6:24 pm

I am generally a fan of Biden’s pick so far but O’Hearn for DNJ seems completely out of the blue and a political favor for Booker and Menendez. A partner at a midsize employment defense firm? I thought Biden was choosing pro-labor, civil rights, legal aid types for D.Ct.(at least from WH Counsel Dana Remus). If Biden wants to turn the tide in any way from the Trump appointees, he needs to overrule some of these appointments.

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Re: Biden Judicial Nominees Predictions

Post by lavarman84 » Sat May 01, 2021 7:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 12:54 pm
What's odd about that? The legal profession obsesses over prestige. When a shiny new penny joins the judiciary, people notice. As for Kat Mizelle, I've met her twice. She's all the way brilliant and capable. I have no idea why she is the go-to example of incompetence. Our judiciary is riddled with judges who couldn't distinguish personal jurisdiction from subject matter jurisdiction if their very lives depended on it. If I were a litigant (plaintiff or defendant) I would sooner have Kat Mizelle presiding than many, perhaps most, district court judges in Florida.
I would expect she gets picked on because she had so little practical experience. Frankly, it would have been better for her to be appointed to the Eleventh Circuit. There were people with much better resumes who could have filled that slot. Their resumes weren't more prestigious, but they were better. I'm sure Kat will get the job down in time. But it's going to be quite a learning curve. And frankly, if I were the average plaintiff, I would much prefer one of the more experienced district court judges in Florida.

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Re: Biden Judicial Nominees Predictions

Post by Iowahawk » Sat May 01, 2021 8:29 pm

Yeah I think Mizelle is probably the most unqualified judge on the federal bench. Walker is at least (somehow) on a COA now. Mizelle’s not just a ‘12 grad, but a ‘12 grad going in with four clerkships and no trial experience whatsoever. I know some people her age who could probably be competent federal judges but they’re trial partners at firms, AUSAs, etc. who know their way around an evidentiary ruling.

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Re: Biden Judicial Nominees Predictions

Post by Anonymous User » Sat May 01, 2021 10:09 pm

Iowahawk wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 8:29 pm
Yeah I think Mizelle is probably the most unqualified judge on the federal bench. Walker is at least (somehow) on a COA now. Mizelle’s not just a ‘12 grad, but a ‘12 grad going in with four clerkships and no trial experience whatsoever. I know some people her age who could probably be competent federal judges but they’re trial partners at firms, AUSAs, etc. who know their way around an evidentiary ruling.
This is insane. On the experience point, Mizelle spent 3 years as a DOJ trial attorney and another year in private practice and tried 2 cases to verdict. "No trial experience whatsoever?" C'mon. Also, it's not as if her 4 clerkships (including a district court clerkship and SCOTUS clerkship) don't count. Surely, they aren't worse prep than the drudgery doc review biglaw juniors are put to.

Setting all that aside, intelligence and work ethic matter, and she has both. Every week, the Eleventh Circuit reverses judges for either not understanding the law or not caring to apply it correctly. I doubt Mizelle will make many appearances on that list. If you doubt me, keep an eye on her docket over the next year. I bet you'll be surprised.

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Re: Biden Judicial Nominees Predictions

Post by lavarman84 » Sat May 01, 2021 11:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 10:09 pm
This is insane. On the experience point, Mizelle spent 3 years as a DOJ trial attorney and another year in private practice and tried 2 cases to verdict. "No trial experience whatsoever?" C'mon. Also, it's not as if her 4 clerkships (including a district court clerkship and SCOTUS clerkship) don't count. Surely, they aren't worse prep than the drudgery doc review biglaw juniors are put to.

Setting all that aside, intelligence and work ethic matter, and she has both. Every week, the Eleventh Circuit reverses judges for either not understanding the law or not caring to apply it correctly. I doubt Mizelle will make many appearances on that list. If you doubt me, keep an eye on her docket over the next year. I bet you'll be surprised.
She practiced for a total of eight years. She spent four of the eight clerking. She tried a total of two cases. In one of the cases, she wasn't even lead counsel. You don't need to convince those of us who clerked of the value in clerking. But you're not going to have much luck convincing most lawyers that Kat had sufficient experience to take on a federal district court judgeship.

She's brilliant, but she was also unqualified. She had the right connections and believes the right things. Frankly, it was a slap in the face to the many qualified conservative lawyers/judges who wanted that job. I have a high opinion of Kat as a person, but her appointment to that judgeship highlights everything that is wrong with the system. I have no doubt that she would have eventually ended up on the federal bench, but that should have happened after more time in practice.

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Re: Biden Judicial Nominees Predictions

Post by nixy » Sat May 01, 2021 11:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 10:09 pm
This is insane. On the experience point, Mizelle spent 3 years as a DOJ trial attorney and another year in private practice and tried 2 cases to verdict. "No trial experience whatsoever?" C'mon. Also, it's not as if her 4 clerkships (including a district court clerkship and SCOTUS clerkship) don't count. Surely, they aren't worse prep than the drudgery doc review biglaw juniors are put to.
...have you ever tried a case? Trying two cases to verdict isn't enough trial experience, 4 years of practice isn't enough trial experience, and clerking (when like 3 of those years were appellate, right?) isn't enough trial experience. I've appeared before new district court judges who had been trial attorneys for years and it's a HUGE learning curve even for them.

Again, this has nothing to do with her intelligence and work ethic. I'm sure she has both in spades. But there were doubtless plenty of other smart, young, conservative lawyers with more experience than she has and I don't think it's a good precedent to appoint people with that little practical experience to the bench.

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Re: Biden Judicial Nominees Predictions

Post by Skool » Sun May 02, 2021 5:46 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 10:09 pm
Iowahawk wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 8:29 pm
Yeah I think Mizelle is probably the most unqualified judge on the federal bench. Walker is at least (somehow) on a COA now. Mizelle’s not just a ‘12 grad, but a ‘12 grad going in with four clerkships and no trial experience whatsoever. I know some people her age who could probably be competent federal judges but they’re trial partners at firms, AUSAs, etc. who know their way around an evidentiary ruling.
This is insane. On the experience point, Mizelle spent 3 years as a DOJ trial attorney and another year in private practice and tried 2 cases to verdict. "No trial experience whatsoever?" C'mon. Also, it's not as if her 4 clerkships (including a district court clerkship and SCOTUS clerkship) don't count. Surely, they aren't worse prep than the drudgery doc review biglaw juniors are put to.

Setting all that aside, intelligence and work ethic matter, and she has both. Every week, the Eleventh Circuit reverses judges for either not understanding the law or not caring to apply it correctly. I doubt Mizelle will make many appearances on that list. If you doubt me, keep an eye on her docket over the next year. I bet you'll be surprised.
What a terrible take in a thread full of terrible takes, full of literal logical fallacies, and of course, given anonymously.

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Re: Biden Judicial Nominees Predictions

Post by Anonymous User » Sun May 02, 2021 10:36 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 10:09 pm
Iowahawk wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 8:29 pm
Yeah I think Mizelle is probably the most unqualified judge on the federal bench. Walker is at least (somehow) on a COA now. Mizelle’s not just a ‘12 grad, but a ‘12 grad going in with four clerkships and no trial experience whatsoever. I know some people her age who could probably be competent federal judges but they’re trial partners at firms, AUSAs, etc. who know their way around an evidentiary ruling.
This is insane. On the experience point, Mizelle spent 3 years as a DOJ trial attorney and another year in private practice and tried 2 cases to verdict. "No trial experience whatsoever?" C'mon. Also, it's not as if her 4 clerkships (including a district court clerkship and SCOTUS clerkship) don't count. Surely, they aren't worse prep than the drudgery doc review biglaw juniors are put to.

Setting all that aside, intelligence and work ethic matter, and she has both. Every week, the Eleventh Circuit reverses judges for either not understanding the law or not caring to apply it correctly. I doubt Mizelle will make many appearances on that list. If you doubt me, keep an eye on her docket over the next year. I bet you'll be surprised.
The good faith criticism has nothing to do with her ability to apply the law. She'll have 0 problems with the civil law and motions docket, but that's only a relatively unimportant part of the job. Much of the job of a district judge is very technical - administering trials (not just the attorneys, but juries, court staff, etc), making proper snap judgments on critical evidentiary issues, etc. She didn't have nearly enough experience in that area for the pick (and I say that as someone who is probably mostly in agreement with her politically). She was more prepared to be a COA judge or U.S. Supreme Court justice than a district judge. There are plenty of judges on both sides of the political aisle who took the bench with a similar lack of trial experience - ask attorneys who practice before them about how fun it is to try a case in their courts. It's miserable.

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Re: Biden Judicial Nominees Predictions

Post by Quichelorraine » Sun May 02, 2021 5:42 pm

She was more prepared to be a COA judge or U.S. Supreme Court justice than a district judge.
It's fascinating, too, that this is the stone-cold truth about how the system works: the lower you go on the judicial totem pole, the more experience the job actually requires. Half of what Magistrate Judges do on a day-to-day basis gives me imposter-syndrome cold sweats.

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Re: Biden Judicial Nominees Predictions

Post by Anonymous User » Sun May 02, 2021 8:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:27 pm
Three new Biden picks in.

David Estudillo - WDWA
Tana Lin - WDWA
Christine O’Hearn - NJ

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-ne ... ton-state/
How do I apply to O'Hearn -- can anyone point me in the direction of what to do for judicial nominees?

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Re: Biden Judicial Nominees Predictions

Post by Quichelorraine » Mon May 03, 2021 10:10 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 8:40 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:27 pm
Three new Biden picks in.

David Estudillo - WDWA
Tana Lin - WDWA
Christine O’Hearn - NJ

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-ne ... ton-state/
How do I apply to O'Hearn -- can anyone point me in the direction of what to do for judicial nominees?
There's no one "what to do," unfortunately; it depends on the nominee. Your clerkship office might have some information, and/or might be the entity best suited to call O'Hearn or O'Hearn's assistant and ask whether a process is in place.

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Re: Biden Judicial Nominees Predictions

Post by Anonymous User » Wed May 12, 2021 7:41 pm

Six new ones.

CA1 - Gustavo Gelpi
CA2 - Eunice Lee
CA10 - Veronica Rossman

Mass - Angel Kelley
NJ - Karen Williams
WD Wash - Lauren King

The 2 and 10 nominees are surprising, as they were widely expected to be used for elevations from SDNY (Nathan, Oetken, or Furman) and the Colorado Supreme Court (Marquez or Hart). I guess Biden's people must really like public defenders. It also looks like Biden's nominees will be much less T14-heavy than Trump's--Hastings, Suffolk, Temple in this batch. And no former SCOTUS or feeder clerks except for KBJ so far, though Florence Pan was a Bristow/CA2/SDNY which is probably close enough to count.

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Re: Biden Judicial Nominees Predictions

Post by Anonymous User » Wed May 12, 2021 9:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 7:41 pm
Six new ones.

CA1 - Gustavo Gelpi
CA2 - Eunice Lee
CA10 - Veronica Rossman

Mass - Angel Kelley
NJ - Karen Williams
WD Wash - Lauren King

The 2 and 10 nominees are surprising, as they were widely expected to be used for elevations from SDNY (Nathan, Oetken, or Furman) and the Colorado Supreme Court (Marquez or Hart). I guess Biden's people must really like public defenders. It also looks like Biden's nominees will be much less T14-heavy than Trump's--Hastings, Suffolk, Temple in this batch. And no former SCOTUS or feeder clerks except for KBJ so far, though Florence Pan was a Bristow/CA2/SDNY which is probably close enough to count.
inb4 more pouting about the picks not being preftigious enough for the TLS elite

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