Prospect for international student after JD Forum

[ji]

Question:
1. Are law firms more willing to sponsor H-1 visa comparing, let's say, accounting firms? All the schools I applied in NY and CA, I thought more firms there are fairly open-minded and internationally oriented. I need to work in the U.S. at least for five years to pay back loan.
2. As for greencard, how is it possible to demonstrate that employers can't find a U.S. citizen to do similar work, as required in the labor certificate process.
3. If I have established a good credit in the U.S., can I borrow without a cosigner? Accessloan seems promising, but their verbage is vague.
4. How is JD degree regarded outside U.S.? I suppose it has more to do with individuals. But most countries recoganize LLB/LLM, rather than JD, I just don't understand why the U.S. always sets different standard from the rest of the world.

Thanks for anyone's input on these.

[kwfl]

1. Are law firms more willing to sponsor H-1 visa comparing, let's say, accounting firms? All the schools I applied in NY and CA, I thought more firms there are fairly open-minded and internationally oriented. I need to work in the U.S. at least for five years to pay back loan.

That depends on the firm. If you speak a foreign language then they may be more willing to consider it if they have international clients from countries that speak it.

2. As for greencard, how is it possible to demonstrate that employers can't find a U.S. citizen to do similar work, as required in the labor certificate process.

They advertise the job for 3 months and see how many applications they get. If there are no US applicants who meet the qualifications for the job then they can apply for a labor certification. They cannot, however, be too restrictive. If a firm only hires T14 school graduates too bad. They cannot make that a qualification for the job. As far as the Labor Department is concerned a JD is a JD - no matter where you got it. Also the job cannot be tailored to specifically fit only you.

3. If I have established a good credit in the U.S., can I borrow without a cosigner? Accessloan seems promising, but their verbage is vague.

Yes. But you will get raped on the interest rate.

4. How is JD degree regarded outside U.S.? I suppose it has more to do with individuals. But most countries recoganize LLB/LLM, rather than JD, I just don't understand why the U.S. always sets different standard from the rest of the world.

It generally isn't. Law degrees, unlike medicine or engineering degrees, are not particularly portable and are often not very useful outside the country in which they were earned. This is because each sovereign state has it's own unique system of justice, court decisions, procedures etc.

Broadly speaking legal systems of First World countries break down into two basic types. The most common type is the Civil Code system used in Western Europe and former colonies of those counties (mainly in South America, Africa and Asia). These systems usually do not have a doctrine of binding precedent with respect to judicial decisions and all law (including torts and contracts) is derived form statutes (called the code).

The other, much less common, system in use is the Common Law System. This is used in the England and it's former colonies (including the US). Law is often derived from judicial decisions rather than explicitly stated in statutes. These systems also use the doctrine of binding precedent in which lower courts always follow the higher court's decisions.

Degrees from civil code countries seem to be more portable, as the emphasis is on using a code, not so much what it actually is. Degrees in common law countries are less so because common law develops very differently in different jurisdictions.

The LL.B./J.D. distinction arises form the fact that law (along with medicine) is taught as an undergraduate level in most other countries. Only the US (and I think Canada) make you waste four years in college getting another degree first if you want to be a doctor or a lawyer.

A US JD is regarded about the same as a law degree from Canada or Australia or any other common country. US Lawyers on the other hand are another matter. Tales of stupid personal injury lawsuits and outrageous jury awards have led to the rest of the word viewing the US legal system and the people in it with a 50/50 mixture of amusement and disgust. Also in the rest of the world if you sue someone and lose - you must pay their legal fees. Only in the US can you file a suit and suffer no consequence if you lose.

If you get a job outside the US with your US JD it will most likely be as a consultant rather than an attorney.

[Bob]

4. How is JD degree regarded outside U.S.? I suppose it has more to do with individuals. But most countries recoganize LLB/LLM, rather than JD, I just don't understand why the U.S. always sets different standard from the rest of the world.

A JD from a top US law school is very well recognized. You should certainly be able to find a job in corporate/financial law, either in a law firm or as an in-house counsel.

By the way, Australia and Hong Kong have recently introduced JD degrees.

[kwfl]

By the way, Australia and Hong Kong have recently introduced JD degrees.

Australia did it for people with foreign law degrees or degrees in other subjects who wish to switch into law. Most people still do an LL.B. at undegraduate level though, and move onto practice law with no post graduate training.

An amercian JD alone would not be sifficient to be admitted to practice in Australia.

[jin]

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[PLATONiC]

As to sponsoring H1B visas, I doubt that you will face any problems if you attend a T14 school.

Since the legal market is changing, I can't provide any strong claims... but look at it this way:

Starting salary is $130,000 to $160,000ish for first year associates in biglaw. Do you think that the company would care too much about spending the extra money to finance your sponsorship? I mean, the costs attributable to the legal fees don't go any higher than $4,000. I don't think you have too much to worry about besides gaining admission to a strong law school as well as performing well once you get in:D

[TheJudge]

Question:
1. Are law firms more willing to sponsor H-1 visa comparing, let's say, accounting firms? All the schools I applied in NY and CA, I thought more firms there are fairly open-minded and internationally oriented. I need to work in the U.S. at least for five years to pay back loan.

As some people said before, as long as you attend a well regarded school (say T20-30), you should have no problems getting a job. Many people get LLMs here and they certainly find jobs in NYC or CA afterwards. So I don't see a reason why a JD shouldn't be able to do the same for you.

Besides, I could imagine that many US firms with international operations would be happy to hire you for the local offices. I mean, how much better can it get to have a "local" with a t14 law degree? This should be especially true for "developing" legal systems such as China.

[grandslam]

None of my 3L international friends have managed to find a job yet. I don't know if it's because they haven't done well or if it's just because they go to Tulane. Apparently, a lot of them get their llms before pursuing a JD - so they've received 8 years of legal education (b/c law is an undergraduate major in most of asia) by the time they graduate. You'd think that'd make them more competitive than their US counterparts. I guess not

It's interesting though - in Taiwan, a llm translates into a masters degree in law and a JD is a the PhD equivalent just because nobody gets JDs and goes back to TW. The ministry of education has no idea how to deal with them and translates the juris doctor literally.

[sophie316]

Question:
1. Are law firms more willing to sponsor H-1 visa comparing, let's say, accounting firms? All the schools I applied in NY and CA, I thought more firms there are fairly open-minded and internationally oriented. I need to work in the U.S. at least for five years to pay back loan.
2. As for greencard, how is it possible to demonstrate that employers can't find a U.S. citizen to do similar work, as required in the labor certificate process.
3. If I have established a good credit in the U.S., can I borrow without a cosigner? Accessloan seems promising, but their verbage is vague.
4. How is JD degree regarded outside U.S.? I suppose it has more to do with individuals. But most countries recoganize LLB/LLM, rather than JD, I just don't understand why the U.S. always sets different standard from the rest of the world.

Thanks for anyone's input on these.

I would say your best bet is to work for a US firm that has offices in your home country(or if you're European, any EU country). That way if they can't get you a visa, they can send you to work in your home country and they will still pay you a comparable salary(w slightly COL adjustments).

You will probably still have some trouble borrowing to be honest, even with good credit they may want a cosigner as you could just skip the country and there's nothing they could do.

As for how it is regarded, it depends on what you are trying to do. If you want to work in civil law countries, you may have trouble, but common law countries I think it is relatively easy to get certified to practice. Passing the NY bar allows you to take an exam to get certified to practice in the UK I believe, and from there other commonwealth countries are relatively easy. As far as getting a job goes...well it will probably depend in what you're looking at.

[moonie]

As an international 1L here is what I have observed / conjectured:

Our employment model is probably more binomial than our American friends – there are lots of jobs that we are automatically disqualified from(government jobs with the exception of some state clerkships, jobs that are unable / unwilling to sponsor H1-B), yet if we can get BigLaw, that is fine – BigLaws don’t care about the 4k extra money for H1-B sponsorship, and we might even get a chance to work back home some day with good global pay (of course, that was more true in the good old days).

That being said, legal employment has never been a good way to get GC sponsorship, for reasons described by kwfl. However, a JD from top law school in US is still well-regarded in the long run, if we put things in perspective: the common law / civil law dichotomy is blurring in many emerging economies, particularly in areas such as admiralty, contracts and international transaction. Lots of law firms from common law jurisdictions are actively practicing in developing civil law countries, and our multicultural background will serve us well some years down the road. Oh yes – we also have a chance in our own governments or even in the academia, though JD is not a research degree and we probably want something on top of a JD if we want to go to a good university.

Oh well. Maybe I’m just trying to make myself feel better for attending law school in this economy. Anyway, the idea is still there –work hard, foreign kids, and let’s keep our fingers crossed for the global economy.

[jin]

As an international 1L here is what I have observed / conjectured:

Hi moonie,

Good advices. Which law school are you studying now? What's your LSAT score and nationality? I just want to give myself a hope.

[Carnival1860]

Another international 1L posting, attending a T20 in one of the two states you are interested in. One observation is that there are not many international JDs around even in NY/CA law schools. It doesnt indicate whether your degree is more or less well-regarded, you are just not competing with a bunch of other "international students" as in some other professions (eg. Engineering). You certainly have some selling points that other people do not, such as speaking another language or abundant cross-cultural experiences etc, but I do not think that will carry you very far if you are not within the top X% of your class (X depends on the school you attend). I know a 3L F-1 student in my school who got an offer from a top 10 NY firm while many of his classmates are jobless. That being said, I think it still boils down to your grades and the school you attended. So for now, do not worry about H-1B sponsorship or anything else. Try everything you can to attend a better school and do well if you are already in law school.

[Mr. Matlock]

I don't know who pulled this thread out of the ass of TLS, but for those of you responding, the OP's post is from:

January of 2007

[jin]

I don't know who pulled this thread out of the ass of TLS, but for those of you responding, the OP's post is from:

January of 2007

It's still usefull. =)

[jin]

Another international 1L posting, attending a T20 in one of the two states you are interested in. One observation is that there are not many international JDs around even in NY/CA law schools. It doesnt indicate whether your degree is more or less well-regarded, you are just not competing with a bunch of other "international students" as in some other professions (eg. Engineering). You certainly have some selling points that other people do not, such as speaking another language or abundant cross-cultural experiences etc, but I do not think that will carry you very far if you are not within the top X% of your class (X depends on the school you attend). I know a 3L F-1 student in my school who got an offer from a top 10 NY firm while many of his classmates are jobless. That being said, I think it still boils down to your grades and the school you attended. So for now, do not worry about H-1B sponsorship or anything else. Try everything you can to attend a better school and do well if you are already in law school.

Good info. Which law school is this?

[awesomepossum]

I don't know who pulled this thread out of the ass of TLS, but for those of you responding, the OP's post is from:

January of 2007

jin did the ass fingering.

[Mr. Matlock]

I don't know who pulled this thread out of the ass of TLS, but for those of you responding, the OP's post is from:

January of 2007

jin did the ass fingering.

These damn kids... screw it awesome, let's have some pie!

[jin]

I don't know who pulled this thread out of the ass of TLS, but for those of you responding, the OP's post is from:

January of 2007

jin did the ass fingering.

Can you show me how to do ass fingering? I have have no clue what it look like.
It seems to me that maybe you are pretty good at it.

[awesomepossum]

I don't know who pulled this thread out of the ass of TLS, but for those of you responding, the OP's post is from:

January of 2007

jin did the ass fingering.

These damn kids... screw it awesome, let's have some pie!

hahaha....I loved those pie threads....

[jin]

I don't know who pulled this thread out of the ass of TLS, but for those of you responding, the OP's post is from:

January of 2007

jin did the ass fingering.

These damn kids... screw it awesome, let's have some pie!

hahaha....I loved those pie threads....

What a pie ass!