Transfer to CCN or stay put? Forum

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:34 am

Hey all,

I am at a T-25 with a 3.8 and in the top 12-15%. I have close to a full-ride at my current school. In a regular cycle, I have a decent shot at NYC biglaw (but not sure if I would get a practice area of my choice).

I am looking for NYC corporate with a "global" firm with CapMarkets/M&A experience transferable to Singapore office. I would like to move there after 3-4 years of NYC biglaw. I have extensive and relevant, but not prestigious, WE in banking and corporate strategy. I have no NYC ties.

Should I transfer to NYU (I'm in) or Columbia (waiting for the result) or stay put at my current school? The move would cost me $150K pre-interest. I would be paying off my expenses right now using my savings but would be taking on private loans to sponsor my education at CN. My spouse and child would move with me. I am pretty sure I want the outcome I mentioned. Welcoming all suggestions! I am really torn.

BrainsyK · Post by **BrainsyK** » Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:10 am

I would only go if you think that the prestige of CCN would help you for your career in Singapore. Otherwise, "global" firms really aren't that selective academically. You're well beyond their threshold and fit and luck will decide at this point. This is all assuming that the economy is not a total disaster and is at least in an upward trajectory by Jan. 2021, or whenever you do recruit. Firms tend to retreat to top schools in bad economies and also dig less deeply into classes everywhere.

Also, pick a firm that has a big enough M&A/CapM practice to accommodate a lot of people, let's to choose or at least rank preferred practice area, and let's you know early so you can recruit elsewhere if you don't get what you want. I know of some firms that don't let you know your practice area until like a couple of months before you start as an associate.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:37 am

BrainsyK wrote: ↑
Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:10 am
I would only go if you think that the prestige of CCN would help you for your career in Singapore. Otherwise, "global" firms really aren't that selective academically. You're well beyond their threshold and fit and luck will decide at this point. This is all assuming that the economy is not a total disaster and is at least in an upward trajectory by Jan. 2021, or whenever you do recruit. Firms tend to retreat to top schools in bad economies and also dig less deeply into classes everywhere.

Also, pick a firm that has a big enough M&A/CapM practice to accommodate a lot of people, let's to choose or at least rank preferred practice area, and let's you know early so you can recruit elsewhere if you don't get what you want. I know of some firms that don't let you know your practice area until like a couple of months before you start as an associate.

OP here: thanks! So, I think there are two sets of firms I think I can target in NYC (please correct me if I am wrong)- US firms with a strong M&A/CapM practice and/or offices abroad and/or transferable prestige - e.g. DPW, skadden, Latham, STB, or even Shearman. The other is magic circle firms. CCN, I assume would give me a reasonably good shot at the former and a great shot at the latter. I don't think I stand a good chance at the former set of firms from my current school coz only a couple of those do OCI here (and select only the top 5-10%ish students). No MC firms do OCI at my school. You think mass mailing/networking, etc., can help me attain a gig at one of the MC firms from my school if I have language skills (not Mandarin though) and prior business experience in south and SE Asia? If the answer to this is yes, I will most likely stay back.

BrainsyK · Post by **BrainsyK** » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:41 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑
Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:37 am
OP here: thanks! So, I think there are two sets of firms I think I can target in NYC (please correct me if I am wrong)- US firms with a strong M&A/CapM practice and/or offices abroad and/or transferable prestige - e.g. DPW, skadden, Latham, STB, or even Shearman. The other is magic circle firms. CCN, I assume would give me a reasonably good shot at the former and a great shot at the latter. I don't think I stand a good chance at the former set of firms from my current school coz only a couple of those do OCI here (and select only the top 5-10%ish students). No MC firms do OCI at my school. You think mass mailing/networking, etc., can help me attain a gig at one of the MC firms from my school if I have language skills (not Mandarin though) and prior business experience in south and SE Asia? If the answer to this is yes, I will most likely stay back.

Oh, wow, I didn't know that the pickings were so slim at T25 OCIs...

At Columbia, the overall theme from the EIP data that I have is that transfers are swimming in offers as a whole mostly from V10ish firms. PW, Weil, and K&E are transfer-friendlier. Others give ~10% of their offers to transfers. MC firms, White & Case, Shearman gave very few offers both in absolutes and proportionally to transfers.

I don't know what pre-OCI will look like. My theory is the best candidates (Top 20% at T14s) will get picked quicker and by more firms. Depending on the economy, your grades and experience may put you in that group, but probably not.

I still don't know if I'd go. Most of those V10ish offers likely go to the 15-25 strongest transfers. If you're in that pool, go, but if you're not hitting their thresholds at your T25, then maybe not. Interviewing with them only grants a facial advantage without substantively increasing your odds of being offered, which diminishes the main benefit that CCN can offer and thus makes the $150k price tag still unattractive. You're basically betting to really impress as an interviewee or being lucky. Maybe you're both or neither. I don't know.

Man, I sound really down on your odds. It's not my intent--just trying to provide the best objective perspective that I can based on the data.

Also, PM me if you're comfortable outing yourself.

zg43 · Post by **zg43** » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:06 am

For what it's worth, I'm considering transferring because I currently am paying close to sticker at my current school (a decision I regret). I think being saddled with an additional 150K+ debt is something to seriously consider. If you think you can attain your goals at your current school (which it sounds like you can?), this is a tough decision. I think I would personally choose less debt, but I think this is also a very personal decision. Feel free to PM me if you want to speak more. Good luck and congratulations on your acceptance regardless of if you attend or not!

EDIT: I think this also depends heavily on what school you are currently at. Certain T25 schools are much better than others for biglaw placement.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:13 pm

OP here: Thanks a lot, both of you! I do realize it's a big debt I need to take on. I am just worried that with my (sort of) niche goals, I may not be able to get a firm/practice area of my choice, especially in this economy. But I will think long and hard.

decimalsanddollars · Post by **decimalsanddollars** » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:29 am

Agree w/ above about which T25 you're currently attending. The schools in the upper end of that 20-ish range vary on biglaw placement pretty considerably. If you're at a place like Notre Dame, USC, or GW, I would lean toward staying put. If it's a place like ASU, Alabama, or Florida, I would transfer.

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