At/slightly Above Median GPA- Transfer within T14? Forum

[alabamaboy98]

Currently at a T10 paying sticker. Sitting at around median (3.3 at our school), so between 3.4 and 3.5.

I was hoping to transfer to Penn (considered lateral?) or even NYU or Columbia for personal and atypical career reasons. I saw that the 25th percentile GPA of their transfers is around 3.6.

Is it worth throwing an app their way? I have some but not impressive work experience. Not a urm.

Thoughts?

[KPUSN07]

I don't mean to prod - but if you're at a T10 now can't you attain the same career goal at your current school as if you were already attending Penn or NYU, OR is location / market more important?

[alabamaboy98]

I don't mean to prod - but if you're at a T10 now can't you attain the same career goal at your current school as if you were already attending Penn or NYU, OR is location / market more important?

Short term, yes. But for my long-term goal going to a school with a brand name like Penn or NYU would be an outsized advantage. People in the position that I eventually want to be in have told me a transfer would be worth it since my COL wouldn't be much higher.

[TheChain]

I've been wondering the same thing. I'm a little outside the top 1/3 at GULC, and I'd like to leave. I haven't found any useful information. I don't know if we have any shot at moving up since we are well below the median transfer GPA.

[cavalier1138]

I don't mean to prod - but if you're at a T10 now can't you attain the same career goal at your current school as if you were already attending Penn or NYU, OR is location / market more important?

Short term, yes. But for my long-term goal going to a school with a brand name like Penn or NYU would be an outsized advantage. People in the position that I eventually want to be in have told me a transfer would be worth it since my COL wouldn't be much higher.

This makes very little sense. Penn doesn't have particularly more pull than UVA, Michigan, etc. NYU kind of does in PI circles, but if you were focused on that kind of work, Penn wouldn't make any sense at all.

Intra-T13 transfers are somewhat unpredictable, because so few people make them. But I'd assume that slightly-above-median performance isn't likely to be enough to transfer up. If it really won't cost you more in the long run, might as well cast a wide net. But I'm still extremely confused by this mystery career track that both cares about where you went to school in the long-term and specifically gives Penn and NYU more consideration than other top schools.

[KPUSN07]

I've been wondering the same thing. I'm a little outside the top 1/3 at GULC, and I'd like to leave. I haven't found any useful information. I don't know if we have any shot at moving up since we are well below the median transfer GPA.

What is your GPA?

[QContinuum]

This makes very little sense. Penn doesn't have particularly more pull than UVA, Michigan, etc. NYU kind of does in PI circles, but if you were focused on that kind of work, Penn wouldn't make any sense at all.

Intra-T13 transfers are somewhat unpredictable, because so few people make them. But I'd assume that slightly-above-median performance isn't likely to be enough to transfer up. If it really won't cost you more in the long run, might as well cast a wide net. But I'm still extremely confused by this mystery career track that both cares about where you went to school in the long-term and specifically gives Penn and NYU more consideration than other top schools.

So, since we have two advice-seekers in this thread, I want to endorse cav's post above, with, in my view, a caveat for TheChain:

I've been wondering the same thing. I'm a little outside the top 1/3 at GULC, and I'd like to leave. I haven't found any useful information. I don't know if we have any shot at moving up since we are well below the median transfer GPA.

For someone paying sticker at Georgetown, it may very well make sense to transfer "up" if possible. There's a real prestige difference, in the long run, between Georgetown and, say, Columbia. That said, even then, I think it would have to be a transfer up to the T6 to make the prestige difference large enough to be worth the not-insignificant effort of transferring (not only applying, but also moving and getting acclimated to a new school, leaving all of your 1L friends and sectionmates behind, etc.). I don't think I'd ever recommend, for career reasons, that someone doing well at Georgetown transfer to Cornell.

But for OP, who's already at a "T10," I really don't see any compelling reason for transferring. Maybe an argument could be made for YSH, but transferring from a "T10" to Penn?

[TheChain]

I've been wondering the same thing. I'm a little outside the top 1/3 at GULC, and I'd like to leave. I haven't found any useful information. I don't know if we have any shot at moving up since we are well below the median transfer GPA.

What is your GPA?

3.4. Last year the top third ranged from 3.44-3.5. I should be getting a cali award, and have at least one professor that would give a strong recommendation letter.

I've been wondering the same thing. I'm a little outside the top 1/3 at GULC, and I'd like to leave. I haven't found any useful information. I don't know if we have any shot at moving up since we are well below the median transfer GPA.

Thanks for your response. My motivation for transferring is different than OP. I'm pissed off with the administration's response to coronavirus. I'm willing to go anywhere except U of M.

[Mjtt]

I get the paying sticker issue.You seem to be splitting hairs though.If you are in a t-14 and do well you should have decent employment options when you graduate.How you perform as an attorney from there will determine your future . It's not always about the rankings of USN.

[cavalier1138]

My motivation for transferring is different than OP. I'm pissed off with the administration's response to coronavirus. I'm willing to go anywhere except U of M.

Not to be too harsh, but that is a remarkably short-sighted reason for transferring. There are definitely benefits to transferring up from Georgetown, especially if you're already paying sticker, but protesting the administration's handling of a pandemic isn't one of them.

Focus on yourself and your career goals; your transfer isn't a political statement. You've got two more years of law school, and many, many more years in your career. Transfer if it's the best thing for your career.

[TheChain]

My motivation for transferring is different than OP. I'm pissed off with the administration's response to coronavirus. I'm willing to go anywhere except U of M.

Not to be too harsh, but that is a remarkably short-sighted reason for transferring. There are definitely benefits to transferring up from Georgetown, especially if you're already paying sticker, but protesting the administration's handling of a pandemic isn't one of them.

Focus on yourself and your career goals; your transfer isn't a political statement. You've got two more years of law school, and many, many more years in your career. Transfer if it's the best thing for your career.

My primary reason for wanting to leave is the administration, and I don't think leaving hurts me at all. I'm paying sticker. I've already got a SA lined up. DC is an expensive city, so I don't think transferring will be more expensive.

I'd prefer to move up in rankings for the prestige factor, but I'm also open to some schools outside the T14.

[Throwaway5818]

Do not transfer because of the anything relating to the Wuhan virus/your school's response, that's incredibly short-sighted. This isn't a usual scenario, don't make a permanent decision based on such an idiosyncratic event.

[QContinuum]

Do not transfer because of the anything relating to the Wuhan virus/your school's response, that's incredibly short-sighted. This isn't a usual scenario, don't make a permanent decision based on such an idiosyncratic event.

I'd add that from what I hear, plenty of law schools have sucky administrators. No guarantee you won't end up steamed at your new school's administrators at some point!

[cavalier1138]

I'd prefer to move up in rankings for the prestige factor, but I'm also open to some schools outside the T14.

Again, transferring up may make sense for you. But you literally never have to interact with your school's administration unless you choose to. Trading a Georgetown degree for a lower-ranked school is flat-out stupid, regardless of whether you think you've already secured a job post-graduation.

[TheChain]

I'd prefer to move up in rankings for the prestige factor, but I'm also open to some schools outside the T14.

Again, transferring up may make sense for you. But you literally never have to interact with your school's administration unless you choose to. Trading a Georgetown degree for a lower-ranked school is flat-out stupid, regardless of whether you think you've already secured a job post-graduation.

Can you explain on why it would hurt? My understanding is that after my first few years of working, my work experience will be more important than my degree. Thank you

[nixy]

Your degree plays a huge part in determining what work experience you can get in your first few years of working, though.

[cavalier1138]

I'd prefer to move up in rankings for the prestige factor, but I'm also open to some schools outside the T14.

Again, transferring up may make sense for you. But you literally never have to interact with your school's administration unless you choose to. Trading a Georgetown degree for a lower-ranked school is flat-out stupid, regardless of whether you think you've already secured a job post-graduation.

Can you explain on why it would hurt? My understanding is that after my first few years of working, my work experience will be more important than my degree. Thank you

What nixy said. You haven't secured a job after graduation yet, so it makes no sense to start making assumptions about how much less your degree will matter later.

And I really want to reiterate that you don't have to interact with the administration at your school. Your second and third year are extremely flexible in terms of scheduling and courses. Transferring to a lower-ranked school because you don't like the way Georgetown's administration responded to a very specific unanticipated event is akin to refusing to eat a good meal at a restaurant because you don't like the way the maitre'd looked at you when you came in.

[KPUSN07]

I'd prefer to move up in rankings for the prestige factor, but I'm also open to some schools outside the T14.

Again, transferring up may make sense for you. But you literally never have to interact with your school's administration unless you choose to. Trading a Georgetown degree for a lower-ranked school is flat-out stupid, regardless of whether you think you've already secured a job post-graduation.

Can you explain on why it would hurt? My understanding is that after my first few years of working, my work experience will be more important than my degree. Thank you

Having seen the forest through trees (or something like that, prophetically), let's compare you to a GMU grad, same time frame graduation wise.

You go to BL in DC / NY, while the GMU grad, who has BL aspirations has to start at a smaller firm in Arlington. The GMU grad then must work 3-4 years, hard, to laterally transfer to a BL firm in DC (probably limited in scope) that you're at AND start over likely as an Associate.... Whereas YOU starting at the BL firm might have moved up to a more senior associate role OR can laterally transfer to a higher ranked law firm.

I think (and a MOD can correct me) that is why it matters - but if you want to transfer, hold your GULC spot for me

[KPUSN07]

I'd prefer to move up in rankings for the prestige factor, but I'm also open to some schools outside the T14.

Again, transferring up may make sense for you. But you literally never have to interact with your school's administration unless you choose to. Trading a Georgetown degree for a lower-ranked school is flat-out stupid, regardless of whether you think you've already secured a job post-graduation.

Can you explain on why it would hurt? My understanding is that after my first few years of working, my work experience will be more important than my degree. Thank you

What nixy said. You haven't secured a job after graduation yet, so it makes no sense to start making assumptions about how much less your degree will matter later.

And I really want to reiterate that you don't have to interact with the administration at your school. Your second and third year are extremely flexible in terms of scheduling and courses. Transferring to a lower-ranked school because you don't like the way Georgetown's administration responded to a very specific unanticipated event is akin to refusing to eat a good meal at a restaurant because you don't like the way the maitre'd looked at you when you came in.

10000% agree - if I were there, I could give 2 sh!ts what GULC admin spouses - as long as I was taking classes I was interested in, liked the area / DC, and was on track for a job that interested me - who cares

[QContinuum]

Your degree plays a huge part in determining what work experience you can get in your first few years of working, though.

And, law's pretty damned prestige-obsessed. Even years down the line, law school pedigree can be a dealbreaker in getting an interview or job offer.

One of my colleagues here, nealric, often says he wishes he had a T6 law degree instead of a Georgetown law degree. IIRC, he's said that if he could pay $300k today to exchange his Georgetown J.D. for a T6 J.D., he would do so. He's been out of school for years and years and is a successful lawyer, yet still he feels his law school pedigree is holding him back. Now think about this - if neal feels that way about a Georgetown law degree, how much worse would things be with a non-T14 J.D.?