Transfers of 2014: A TLS Retrospective Look at Transferring

A forum for those current students who are or may be transferring from one school to another. Post any questions, advice, or other transfer related comments here.
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mandimeoutof10
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Transfers of 2014: A TLS Retrospective Look at Transferring

Postby mandimeoutof10 » Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:48 am

So after a few weeks into the semester, how are the transfers feeling about their new schools/decision to transfer? How'd you all fare at OCI?

Personally, I couldn't be happier about transferring to UT. I'm still waiting to hear back from after my only callback so far but even if I strike out at OCI I still think it was the right move. I have an interview up next week with a V50 from mass mailing that would have never been possible from my old school. TLS forums were invaluable during the transfer process for me and I thought it would be nice for some of us transfers to put our post-transfer thoughts into a consolidated thread for future prospective transfers.

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heavoldgotjuice
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Re: Transfers of 2014: A TLS Retrospective Look at Transferring

Postby heavoldgotjuice » Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:16 pm

Some thoughts:

1.) If you come from a low-ranked school, despite the common consensus, do not bid all NYC - rather, bid cities you have ties to, or states you have loose ties to (e.g., you lived in Pittsburgh, bid some Philly) ---> most transfers I have met at my school have not done so well in the NYC market, including myself

2.) Not a single interviewer (30+ screeners) gave a shit that I wrote onto a Journal

3.) Coming from a TTTT, then intellect and discussion occurring in the classroom at the T-14 schools is a much higher caliber

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mandimeoutof10
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Re: Transfers of 2014: A TLS Retrospective Look at Transferring

Postby mandimeoutof10 » Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:35 pm

heavoldgotjuice wrote:Some thoughts:

1.) If you come from a low-ranked school, despite the common consensus, do not bid all NYC - rather, bid cities you have ties to, or states you have loose ties to (e.g., you lived in Pittsburgh, bid some Philly) ---> most transfers I have met at my school have not done so well in the NYC market, including myself

2.) Not a single interviewer (30+ screeners) gave a shit that I wrote onto a Journal

3.) Coming from a TTTT, then intellect and discussion occurring in the classroom at the T-14 schools is a much higher caliber


I agree with almost all of this. I didn't bid NYC at all. I mass mailed there because I didn't want to disregard the biggest biglaw market in the country. Also, while I agree that it's not a huge deal, I still feel that journals can benefit you in a sense that you get a box checked off that others may not. W/ respect to the competition, I DEFINITELY feel like the caliber of the other students has increased dramatically.

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TTRansfer
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Re: Transfers of 2014: A TLS Retrospective Look at Transferring

Postby TTRansfer » Thu Sep 11, 2014 11:08 am

Mass mailing is TCR even more so with transfers, IMO.

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mandimeoutof10
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Re: Transfers of 2014: A TLS Retrospective Look at Transferring

Postby mandimeoutof10 » Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:45 am

TTRansfer wrote:Mass mailing EARLY is TCR even more so with transfers, IMO.

Fixed.

You are 100% right about mass mailing and mass mailing early. By early I mean you should have already compiled a list and begun sending emails out BEFORE you even are admitted. Send them hoez out EARLY (waaaay before OCI).

I made the nerve-racking/objectively bad decision do wait until AFTER OCI to start mailing which was a HORRIBLE idea. I'm still waiting to hear back from my sole call back (i have become a level 7 tea reader though), so at least there's that. Fingers are crossed and they gave me a date at the end of September so I'm still holding out hope. W/ respect to that callback, I still can't to decide what to do. Should I write them back or mintain radio silenr for a phone call. ps, im drunk. disregard whatever i just wrote

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TTRansfer
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Re: Transfers of 2014: A TLS Retrospective Look at Transferring

Postby TTRansfer » Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:43 pm

Well, when I write mass mail I mean early, anyway. There's no reason to not do it early transfer or not.

Jloubriel26
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Re: Transfers of 2014: A TLS Retrospective Look at Transferring

Postby Jloubriel26 » Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:41 pm

As a Part-Time Evening Student, Transferring from a TTT to a T30 School was worth it for me. I was able to write on to a journal and I still have the option of participating in the School's OCI next year. Since I'm already in the country's biggest BigLaw Market, I'm in a good position to land a SA in at least a mid-firm. Overall, no complaints.

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DoveBodyWash
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Re: Transfers of 2014: A TLS Retrospective Look at Transferring

Postby DoveBodyWash » Sat Sep 20, 2014 7:27 pm

Transferring worked out for me as far as OCI and getting an offer i wanted. I essentially got locked out of all the Chicago firms from my T20 OCI (only pre-selected by Winston) and it looks like Chicago hiring was brutal this year. I definitely would not have gotten my offer if i hadn't transferred.

That being said, some thoughts:

1. It definitely could not have worked out...maybe because I was targeting Chicago but it came REALLY close. The OCI process can be SO random. Going through this process really made me appreciate how much luck is involved. I think hedging by bidding on NYC is essential..or at least another large market in addition to whatever your target market is.

2. The firms i met didn't seem to care that I was i transferred. They asked why, i gave them the standard response, we moved on. Took 1 minute.

3. When i was making the decision to leave i had to go through "exit counseling" with one of the deans...among other things she said i'd have difficulty making new friends. At the time i laughed it off and was basically like "fuck it i'm gonna have to meet new ppl for the rest of my career, that's a stupid reason not to transfer." And i guess that's kinda true...But I do miss my friends. My transfer friends are awesome and the native 2L's here have been great so far, but u kinda miss out on the bonds that are made in the 1L trenches. I'm not saying don't transfer because you'll miss your friends, but it is something to consider more seriously than i did.

4. Go through coached/mock interviews and perfect it. From my old school, if you got preselected, you already knew that your credentials were good enough for them, and it was really more about not being a weirdo during the interview. Under a lottery system, the firms don't get to choose who they meet. So while it's great that it puts you in front of firms, it doesn't mean that they're interested or that your credentials clear the threshold. If you're not top of the class and/or law review then you really have to dazzle them in the screener to get the callback. The first week of OCI i was interviewing like I did at my old school (basically just try to be social for 20-30 minutes) and my return rate for callbacks was abysmal. After the first week i met with OCS to go over my interviewing and realized that most of the other 2L's were interviewing at a completely higher level. Return rate for the second week was almost three times better.

5. It was intimidating to go from being one of the bigger fish in a small pond to the big blue sea. Lots of my new 2L classmates are ballers. I was pretty anxious going through OCI with them...my only comfort was that each one of them could only accept one offer

6. Not all career offices are created equal.

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fourtyacslaw
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Re: Transfers of 2014: A TLS Retrospective Look at Transferring

Postby fourtyacslaw » Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:35 pm

My experience has been similar to everyone else in this thread. I transferred to UT from a lower T1, SMU, and although I certainly have some mixed thoughts on the move overall I am happy.

I will echo the losing friends from your original school being pretty shitty. Also, there is definitely a transfer stigma, but I have found people get past it pretty quickly if you're simply a normal person and not some antisocial gunner cutthroat. Finally, not necessarily a negative, but it seems pretty obvious the competition will be more stout (as expected).

In my interviews firms haven't mentioned my secondary journal once, but like it was mentioned by the poster above, it is almost certainly a checkbox for some firms at the final hiring decision and as a transfer I feel more confident having it there. As for interviews, I have had mixed success. So far a total of 7 callbacks and one offer have come from it (waiting on 3 firms). I've spoken with recruiters at a couple and the general rule seems to be that firms will look at transfers if they would have been on the "radar" at their original school. In other words, the transfer is a neutral or minimal bump, and is not going to take most people from the no-way to consider pile. I have been asked about my move in every interview, but just have a good/genuine answer. It seems to simply be asked out of curiosity rather than them trying to grill you.

Finally, career services at my transfer school seems more on top of things and I would have felt much more confident moving forward here had I struck at at OCI than if I had been at my old school.

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MagicMike80
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Re: Transfers of 2014: A TLS Retrospective Look at Transferring

Postby MagicMike80 » Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:08 pm

Now at HLS, came from Wash U.

Why to transfer. Because you won't have the same career search if you stay put. that's really the only reason. Every factor should have something to do with your career search. Want to live in seattle because your parents live there? Want to have a number of NYC firms fighting over you and get to weigh them, instead of getting one random offer and having to take it to look successful? Just ask yourself where you want to work, why, and what school puts you in the best position. I wanted to work in California, and i was about to go to Berkeley, when i got into HLS. Career trumps all.

Early Interviewing. I have an offer from a v5 firm, but the process definitely wasn't as smooth as I expected given my current school (I was well below the average number of CBs, offers usually garnered by HLS students, even transfers). I think this has more to do with my scatter-shot resume and age than being a transfer though. Cuse is dead-on when he says bidding NYC is a must. Even if you don't want to be in NYC, and even if you have ties to another market, you're likely to get a better (in the sense of higher ranked, more prestigious, more interesting work) offer in the NYC market. I know several transfers here abandoned LA / Chicago / DC plans in favor of NYC when they had all their offers in hand (and i do mean "all"). In particular I would say that being a transfer translates well to a "why do you want to be in new york" or "why do you want to be at X v10 firm". Because you weren't satisfied with being the best at an ok school. Because v20 felt like failure. Because if you're the smartest one in the room, you're in the wrong room. Because you're not happy with most of it, you're happy with all of it.

Do Firms Actually Care About You Being a Transfer? I interviewed with pretty much every non-DC super selective firm (my focus was on LA and NYC). Only two firms, both LA, expressed anything negative about me being a transfer, and only one firm in 26 interviews said I was out of the running (it was Munger Tolles and Olson. I have their ding letter on my fridge. They will have their day). MTO doesn't hire anyone from Wash U though, and views that bar as a categorical one. The firm I will be working for next summer did not have such a rigid attitude, nor were they known for it. See above for why being a transfer makes you stronger in interviews.

I think especially if you're transferring to HLS / YLS / SLS / Boalt (or any other school that has the pass / high pass system or some version of it), it actually works to your advantage to walk in with a bunch of "real" grades. The native HLS students, on the whole, do not have as good a selection of jobs as the transfers. If you were a VIP at your old school, you are at least something of a VIP at your new school.

Old Friends. I was going to school in St. Louis, MO, with the idea of working in New York or Los Angeles (I'm from DC originally). I would say that from the beginning of 1L i didn't assume law school was going to be like UG, and I'd have a bunch of smiley time and rainbows with a group of great people who I would be in touch with for the rest of my life. Irrespective of that assumption, I didn't think I'd be working within 500 miles of most of my classmates either way. I made friends in 1L, but you and I go to professional schools now; friends are a secondary concern. This whole fucking site would have a field day if I posted that I turned down Harvard because I really bonded with my study group. If you think that after 9 months with some people you're willing to throw away once-in-the-rise-and-fall-of-your-entire-family-name opportunities for them, don't even consider transferring. Do I miss some people? Yes. Do I go to Harvard? Yes.

New Friends. This is going to vary a lot from school to school. We have a lot of transfers (35 i think?), so there a built in network of people already. There are also the 3L transfers who love having the mentor experience they missed out on in 2L. I've already gotten involved with clubs and journal and have made a lot of non-transfer friends. Certain people who went to HLS 1L even say hi to me in the hallways! Again, this is a stupid reason to make this decision either way.

Small fish, Big pond issues.Just remember, the kids with higher LSATS and GPAS didn't necessarily kill 1L. If you're transferring to a great school, or even just upwards a couple of tiers, you're probably a top third mind wherever you end up.Just remember, the kids with higher LSATS and GPAS didn't necessarily kill 1L. If you're transferring to a great school, or even just upwards a couple of tiers, you're probably a top third mind wherever you end up. I felt shitty the first couple of weeks, but then you realize that the same 10 people are talking in every class and you're probably one of them and just being shy, or just below them.

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Re: Transfers of 2014: A TLS Retrospective Look at Transferring

Postby Legal_Octopus » Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:09 pm

I transferred from a school in the 50s to a top 10. OCI worked out, although based on what I've heard from my peers I left behind, I think I would have had more options had I not transferred. I think one thing that's lost on a lot of prospective transfers is that firms at OCI send alumni to interview, and they might not be as receptive to "foreign" students.

The general intelligence of my peers is higher here. I don't get the sense there are many people here that are smarter than the best students at my old school, but the middle and lower bands of the distribution appear much sharper and engaged.

I would frame it this way: take a minor hit in job prospects at OCI --> reap the benefits of better connections later on.

The lay prestige is obviously significant. I think that can be belittled as inconsequential and vain. The truth is though that people do treat you differently when they hear "[top 10]" vs "[also a law school]".

Also, evaluating things objectively is hard because of the differences between 1L and 2L. Students here seem less competitive and more relaxed, but it's hard to tell if that's just the reality of 2L.

For anyone in the future contemplating this move, please feel free to PM me.

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mandimeoutof10
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Re: Transfers of 2014: A TLS Retrospective Look at Transferring

Postby mandimeoutof10 » Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:32 pm

Opie here. I ended up snagging an offer from an excellent firm and thus am very happy with the move. With that said, I will echoe what other have mentioned: IMO (anecdotally) at least 50% of the UT transfers did not end up with biglaw offers and I could have easily been one of those. That would have been an extremely difficult situation. Feel free to PM me with any transfer questions and good luck to all the future transfers!

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Re: Transfers of 2014: A TLS Retrospective Look at Transferring

Postby txig » Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:52 pm

Time for me to give back for all the help I received.

I'm born and raised in the DMV. I transferred from AU as a part-time student to Georgetown as a full-time student. I had to take two summer classes to facilitate that process and worked at a paid internship with a federal agency. I was number 1 of 80 in my PT section, so I applied to Columbia, Stanford, and Michigan as well and got into Michigan. I didn't have a shot at Columbia b/c they refused to review my application until my summer credits came in, which was too late. I know they've made exceptions in the past, but didn't do it this time.

As far as OCI went, I got around 25 interviews with a variety of V100 DC/NY firms. I ended up getting around 5 CBs and accepted an offer before 3 of those from a V50. I only had one firm tell me, during my interview, in fact, that I had no chance. Everyone else was friendly and accepting (probably bc AU has decent reputation in DC), and always asked why I transferred. School hasn't been any different, except a larger course load, and friends have stayed the same, pretty much.

If anyone has any questions about my process, don't hesitate to PM me.

nagy1
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Re: Transfers of 2014: A TLS Retrospective Look at Transferring

Postby nagy1 » Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:11 pm

Did you transfer after 2 years as a parttime student?

txig
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Re: Transfers of 2014: A TLS Retrospective Look at Transferring

Postby txig » Wed Oct 29, 2014 2:05 pm

nagy1 wrote:Did you transfer after 2 years as a parttime student?



I transferred after my first year. I took two classes in the summer to boost my credits from 19 to 26. However, at my new school, I have to take full semester (14-15 credits) to graduate on time (3 total years).

shock259
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Re: Transfers of 2014: A TLS Retrospective Look at Transferring

Postby shock259 » Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:33 am

Going to keep my post super brief because: 1) I'm not a 2014 transfer, and 2) I've written extensively about my transfer experiences.

That said, my experiences were very similar to the posts above. I think future transfers should be very wary about transferring unless they know how TRANSFERS fare at OCI at their new school. CCN and higher ranked should probably be an automatic yes. Most of the T10 is a probable yes. Georgetown and Cornell are where it can start getting closer. Below that and you may not be making a great investment.

And it is a great investment. Like others, I found it surprisingly difficult to make new law school friends and integrate at my new school. I eventually found a solid group, but it took a lot longer and was much smaller than what I had at my 1L school. Some people with different personalities branched out further.

Courseload, professors, and students were of a higher quality at the new school. But not overwhelmingly so. Law school is still law school. And if you're transferring, you know how to play the game. Don't doubt yourself.

Overall, I'm very happy with my decision to transfer. Sometimes it sucked, but I'm a first year associate now and I know I would not be in this position had I not gunned 1L and transferred 2L. Would not change a thing.

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lhanvt13
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Re: Transfers of 2014: A TLS Retrospective Look at Transferring

Postby lhanvt13 » Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:30 pm

Transferred from T1 -> NU

Generally: Loving it here. People are great and I've made lots of great friends. Wasn't as difficult as some posters have said, but I have an over-the-top outgoing personality. Moving into Chicago is awesome because... city. So that was a huge change.

OCI: Had an offer before OCI so I was kind of in a different situation. Overall ended with 7 offers in DC and Cali. Barely bid any NYC during OCI and I think that kind of hurt my % at OCI, but I got most of my offers from other job fairs so things worked out. Most of my transfer friends have extremely solid jobs - some are still looking though.

I mostly transferred for a completely different reason than BigLaw chances, so we'll see how that turns out in the next year.

Overall, I have no regrets at all.

phan
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Re: Transfers of 2014: A TLS Retrospective Look at Transferring

Postby phan » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:30 am

I transferred to a T10. My main reasons for transferring were 1) OCI and 2) maybe a little bit of the whole prestige thing. OCI didn't fare well for me, but did for most transfers I know. I do have something lined up (midlaw), but I was originally hoping for biglaw. Obviously there's still (little) hope come 3L OCI, and my 2L SA job does have a 100% offer rate, but I just want to share that it wasn't all rainbows and unicorns for me regarding OCI.

School is good, but not much better academically speaking than where I came from. The prestige is nice, I can practically network with any attorney, judge, etc. based on my school name. But that's about it, so far at least.

This may sound like kind of a negative post, but I am just showing a realistic outcome that could happen to inform a potential transfer reading this down the line. It's just to offer insight. I am extremely happy I chose to transfer and would still do it all over again, warts and all.

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bsktbll28082
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Re: Transfers of 2014: A TLS Retrospective Look at Transferring

Postby bsktbll28082 » Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:11 am

t50->t20

I'm happy with my transfer. It got me to my target market. I did not fare well at OCI, but I do not anticipate I would have done well at my old school (just dropped out of top 1/3 during 2nd semester....).

I agree it's hard to reintegrate. Everyone here has their friends and study groups. But I also agree that it is a professional school so I will suffer in silence in order to get my degree. I could have stayed where I had a bunch of friends, but career aspects were pretty bad. School was only known locally.

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George Washington
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Re: Transfers of 2014: A TLS Retrospective Look at Transferring

Postby George Washington » Tue Nov 25, 2014 2:07 am

T2 > T10.

The process was way different than I had envisioned.

OCI i snot necessarily a rosy picture, even at a T10. Some transfer did amazing, others are still looking for a job. I only received 2 CBs through OCI, then hustled for 7 more callbacks through email/mass mailing. Finally after like two months I was fortunate enough to get a biglaw offer in the region I wanted. Still the process was long and, at times, terrifying knowing you gave up so much (scholarship money, friends, the comfort you built 1L) for it to not land in a job.

My biggest advice is to think long and hard before yo make the move. Think of the best and worst case scenarios. Would you be happy with your move even if you did not land a job through OCI? For me I only looked at the best case and never thought about the possibility that I could be unemployed or not liking the school.

The initial move was a big adjustment for me (and some of the transfers that I know). Many regretted the decision at first. Now that I have adapted and the job hunt is over, the school is pretty great. I do miss the old school and friends, but I think it was the right move longterm.

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mandimeoutof10
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Re: Transfers of 2014: A TLS Retrospective Look at Transferring

Postby mandimeoutof10 » Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:00 am

George Washington wrote:T2 > T10.

The process was way different than I had envisioned.

OCI i snot necessarily a rosy picture, even at a T10. Some transfer did amazing, others are still looking for a job. I only received 2 CBs through OCI, then hustled for 7 more callbacks through email/mass mailing. Finally after like two months I was fortunate enough to get a biglaw offer in the region I wanted. Still the process was long and, at times, terrifying knowing you gave up so much (scholarship money, friends, the comfort you built 1L) for it to not land in a job.

My biggest advice is to think long and hard before yo make the move. Think of the best and worst case scenarios. Would you be happy with your move even if you did not land a job through OCI? For me I only looked at the best case and never thought about the possibility that I could be unemployed or not liking the school.

The initial move was a big adjustment for me (and some of the transfers that I know). Many regretted the decision at first. Now that I have adapted and the job hunt is over, the school is pretty great. I do miss the old school and friends, but I think it was the right move longterm.


Slightly off topic but out of curiosity, did you end up getting your offer through OCI or mass mail? I hear so few stories of successful mass mail -> offers.

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George Washington
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Re: Transfers of 2014: A TLS Retrospective Look at Transferring

Postby George Washington » Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:25 pm

mandimeoutof10 wrote:
George Washington wrote:T2 > T10.

The process was way different than I had envisioned.

OCI i snot necessarily a rosy picture, even at a T10. Some transfer did amazing, others are still looking for a job. I only received 2 CBs through OCI, then hustled for 7 more callbacks through email/mass mailing. Finally after like two months I was fortunate enough to get a biglaw offer in the region I wanted. Still the process was long and, at times, terrifying knowing you gave up so much (scholarship money, friends, the comfort you built 1L) for it to not land in a job.

My biggest advice is to think long and hard before yo make the move. Think of the best and worst case scenarios. Would you be happy with your move even if you did not land a job through OCI? For me I only looked at the best case and never thought about the possibility that I could be unemployed or not liking the school.

The initial move was a big adjustment for me (and some of the transfers that I know). Many regretted the decision at first. Now that I have adapted and the job hunt is over, the school is pretty great. I do miss the old school and friends, but I think it was the right move longterm.


Slightly off topic but out of curiosity, did you end up getting your offer through OCI or mass mail? I hear so few stories of successful mass mail -> offers.



I got it through mass mailing. I actually know of at least two other people at my school (one being a transfer) that struck out at OCI and ended up getting biglaw through mass mail.

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pancakes3
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Re: Transfers of 2014: A TLS Retrospective Look at Transferring

Postby pancakes3 » Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:45 pm

But did you think that the name of your school for mass mailing did you any favors, or was it your 1L GPA that did the heavy lifting? Did any of you guys give up $$$ to transfer into 6 figure debt?

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DoveBodyWash
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Re: Transfers of 2014: A TLS Retrospective Look at Transferring

Postby DoveBodyWash » Fri Nov 28, 2014 5:04 pm

pancakes3 wrote:But did you think that the name of your school for mass mailing did you any favors, or was it your 1L GPA that did the heavy lifting?


I think the main benefit for most people in my class is that transferring gave us access to firms that we couldn't even have met for a screener from our old school. Once you're in the race, it's all about your GPA, WE, and interviewing. So yes the name of the school gives us access and i'm sure it was easier to get the offer as a CCN student than from our old schools since most of these firms are looking to recruit a certain number of us. But the name of the school alone wasn't sufficient.

pancakes3 wrote:Did any of you guys give up $$$ to transfer into 6 figure debt?

I think almost everyone in my transfer class gave up a full ride (or very close) to transfer. Not everyone is borrowing loans in full to fund the tuition though, some people are paying in cash or are receiving parental support.

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George Washington
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Re: Transfers of 2014: A TLS Retrospective Look at Transferring

Postby George Washington » Sat Nov 29, 2014 4:09 am

pancakes3 wrote:But did you think that the name of your school for mass mailing did you any favors, or was it your 1L GPA that did the heavy lifting? Did any of you guys give up $$$ to transfer into 6 figure debt?


1) I actually was wondering the same thing and I don't know. I had really good grades. I'm not sure if it was because that or because of the school name (likely a mixture of both). Some people at my old school got biglaw (even V5), so I don't think biglaw screeners would have been out of the question from my old school. In the callbacks, they all seemed really impressed by my grades from my old school, seemingly more so then the fact that I'm now at a T10

What I realized though is once you're in the interview, none of that matters anymore. its all about you and how you click with the interviewer.

2) Yes , I gave up nearly a full scholarship to transfer. Fortunately, i didn't have to worry about debt/student loans. Maybe the decision would have been different had that been a factor.




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