Transferring With a 1st Semester 4.0 from W&L Forum

[00TREX00]

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[of Benito Cereno]

If you are #1 at W&L, I'd put a few dollars on YHS if you have any softs at all, and say definitely in at CCN. Just keep this semester up.

Well I imagine that around half of the the top 10 students at top 50 schools apply to transfer to HYS. How many transfers does Yale take? If they get like 15 apps from number 1 and 2 students at top-30 schools then not so sure about W&L #1. However, HLS seems more certain.

[of Benito Cereno]

You should have CLS locked down already. I think we now let in something like 250 transfers per year.

seriously doubt that.

[underachiever]

You should have CLS locked down already. I think we now let in something like 250 transfers per year.

seriously doubt that.

it is like 60...NYU takes about the same

[amped]

So all I have to say to the OP is: stop thinking about transferring (unless you really want to go to Chicago, then consider the ED), and focus on studying. Seriously, don't even come back to these boards until May. If you really want to transfer, don't think about it all! I know it sucks, but you will have plenty of time to do applications, etc., etc. in the summer. You need to focus on classes now.

I saw this advice at least a few times during my second semester and ignored it. Doing so is the single biggest regret of my law school career.

[XxSpyKEx]

If you are at least moderately interested in GULC, I think the best thing you can do right now is throw down a GULC EA, and you are an automatic lock there. Just throw down the deposit at GULC and see what happens next semester. Unlike Chicago ED, GULC EA is not binding (at least I don't think it is because a TON of people EA at GULC and then end up going elsewhere), and that will at least lock you into GULC even if you drop the ball and fall out of the top 5 or 10% next semester. I don't know what the median at W&L is but if it is something like a B- curve then all it really would take is one median grade and a one or two A-s and your odds of transferring in the t14 drop to 0 if you don't EA at GULC. Just some food for thought.

[Joga Bonito]

There are definitely people on yahoo transfer apps who at least, claim to have transferred into YHS with gpa's below 2.7 and with lsat's below or at 167(basically they were not competitive at all straight out of UG. It may not be reliable, but if it is, it's good evidence that pre law school credentials are not a death sentence when applying to YHS as a transfer if your ranked really high at a good school.

[98234872348]

You should have CLS locked down already. I think we now let in something like 250 transfers per year.

seriously doubt that.

I think he means "accept" rather than "matriculate"

It's probably a bit less, I'd say, maybe 100? (and a bunch probably end up going to HYS).

[vanwinkle]

So all I have to say to the OP is: stop thinking about transferring (unless you really want to go to Chicago, then consider the ED), and focus on studying. Seriously, don't even come back to these boards until May. If you really want to transfer, don't think about it all! I know it sucks, but you will have plenty of time to do applications, etc., etc. in the summer. You need to focus on classes now.

This. OP, do what you have to in order to get great second-semester grades. THEN you can apply to UVA, GULC, and any T6 you want to take a shot at, and worry about your chances. Between now and then, make sure your grades are good enough to bother.

[XxSpyKEx]

There are definitely people on yahoo transfer apps who at least, claim to have transferred into YHS with gpa's below 2.7 and with lsat's below or at 167(basically they were not competitive at all straight out of UG. It may not be reliable, but if it is, it's good evidence that pre law school credentials are not a death sentence when applying to YHS as a transfer if your ranked really high at a good school.

The only school I've seen that says they look at LSAT/UGPA for transfer apps is Harvard, and I'm not completely convinced that is a real consideration based on some of the people they took last year. LSAT/UGPA is only suppose to predict your grades in your first semester of law school. It really makes no sense to look at those numbers when you have real law school grades to look at. I think YHS is definitely a possibility with a 4.0 at W&L, but that is incredibly difficult to accomplish for 2 semesters in a row (the distinction between an A and an A- is often pretty slight and just one or two A-s is a huge drop in GPA and class rank when you are splitting hairs and trying to distinguish top 1-5% from top 10% like all t14s do for transfers).

[vanwinkle]

The only school I've seen that says they look at LSAT/UGPA for transfer apps is Harvard

I continue to challenge people to find where Harvard says this. The closest I've seen is them saying that it's likely those who are eligible to transfer typically have a GPA/LSAT that would've been considered for 1L admission, but that's not the same thing. It's just them telling people that people with high GPA/LSAT are typically more successful than those that don't, which isn't surprising.

[XxSpyKEx]

You should have CLS locked down already. I think we now let in something like 250 transfers per year.

seriously doubt that.

I think he means "accept" rather than "matriculate"

It's probably a bit less, I'd say, maybe 100? (and a bunch probably end up going to HYS).

I think he was being sarcastic..

[XxSpyKEx]

The only school I've seen that says they look at LSAT/UGPA for transfer apps is Harvard

I continue to challenge people to find where Harvard says this. The closest I've seen is them saying that it's likely those who are eligible to transfer typically have a GPA/LSAT that would've been considered for 1L admission, but that's not the same thing. It's just them telling people that people with high GPA/LSAT are typically more successful than those that don't, which isn't surprising.

Excellent point. Maybe even Harvard doesn't even consider UGPA/LSAT at all with transfers.

[Joga Bonito]

The only school I've seen that says they look at LSAT/UGPA for transfer apps is Harvard

I continue to challenge people to find where Harvard says this. The closest I've seen is them saying that it's likely those who are eligible to transfer typically have a GPA/LSAT that would've been considered for 1L admission, but that's not the same thing. It's just them telling people that people with high GPA/LSAT are typically more successful than those that don't, which isn't surprising.

Excellent point. Maybe even Harvard doesn't even consider UGPA/LSAT at all with transfers.

I don't think they do. There too much else to consider, prof. recs. extra-cirrcs, ps etc....

Last year a guy from Washu says he transferred to Harvard and he def. didn't have a shot before.

WUSTL Top 5% 2.8/167 accepted at NU, UofC, HLS. 1L RA, Was on Law Review, Trial Team, LGBT Group Treasurer

Another guy in 2007

School rank-20 3.86 5/87 (section), Top 5% 3.4 160 accepted at Harvard. Was on Law Review, Top 5 Students in Section Award

Also same year a guy from UF was #2 and had a 2.98/162 and got into HLS

There are others from the same year and years before with 3.0's and like 160 lsat's and some with lower than 3.0's with low 160 lsat's (I'm to lazy or don't care enough to find them and post them all) but i don't think Harvard cares that much about pre-law stats. If there's a situation in which they take a 2.8/167, there's probably always somebody else who did just as good at another similar school who has better pre-law stats that got rejected. Therefore, ugpa and lsat cant be that big of a deal when transferring. Plus why would they have a ugpa transfer cut off if they won't have one from lsat. Like say anybody, regardless of how high their ugpa and 1L gpa, who has an lsat lower than a 165 can't transfer, this makes more since than an ugpa cut off, but they don't appear to do that either.

[00TREX00]

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[traydeuce]

2.4 and 2.6 are a little worse than 2.72 - 2.4 is a lot worse, W&L's a little upwards of GMU, and I am currently at least tied for #1 and not #3 or just in the top 8%. I think I saw, on the transferapps group at yahoo, a 169 and 2.7 with great grades out of here get into Columbia. I think I'd want to wait to see if I at least start, I don't know, managing to stay awake in class this semester before I assume that I'm headed down and bind myself to some school. The truth is that the "if you ran the world" stuff is definitely not my strength, but it's not like issue-spotting and that rely on mutually exclusive skills. When it comes down to it, so long as I do the reading, pay attention in class, I'm sure I'd squeeze out some A minuses. It's not like anyone else likes talking about what amendments they'd like to make to the Rules of Civil Procedure either.

Do you have Rendleman?

Yes indeed. He's a nice old man but I'm not looking forward to that test.

[traydeuce]

If you are at least moderately interested in GULC, I think the best thing you can do right now is throw down a GULC EA, and you are an automatic lock there. Just throw down the deposit at GULC and see what happens next semester. Unlike Chicago ED, GULC EA is not binding (at least I don't think it is because a TON of people EA at GULC and then end up going elsewhere), and that will at least lock you into GULC even if you drop the ball and fall out of the top 5 or 10% next semester. I don't know what the median at W&L is but if it is something like a B- curve then all it really would take is one median grade and a one or two A-s and your odds of transferring in the t14 drop to 0 if you don't EA at GULC. Just some food for thought.

It's actually a B+ curve. Top 5% was 3.86 this time around. Top 10% was 3.751. So, on your hypo (pretending all grades are weighted the same, which they're not), two A-s, one B+, and two As come to a 3.77. Which averaged with my first semester grades would come to 3.89. So I'd still be in the top 5%. Supposing, let's be pessimistic, 4 A-s and one B+, I'd be at a 3.8 for the year. Depending on how people do next semester, that'd be top ten. So I don't see my t14 chances dropping to 0 unless some kind of personal disaster occurred. That said, you have a point, there's definitely no harm in applying early action to GULC. I'd like to practice in DC anyway, liked the place when I visited.

[RonSantoRules]

If you are at least moderately interested in GULC, I think the best thing you can do right now is throw down a GULC EA, and you are an automatic lock there. Just throw down the deposit at GULC and see what happens next semester.

Waste of money unless you are 99% sure you would attend GULC and be comfortable paying sticker there ITE. The first deposit is due at the beginning of May (you are an absolute lock to get in), so if add up the application fee ($90 bucks) + the first deposit necessary to hold your spot, ($300 I think it was) + the second deposit for GULC (another $150 or so due in June before you hear back from any other schools you apply to during regular decision), that is potentially $500 you could put towards other apps (HYS and CCN) and moving costs (once you transfer; for me it costs like $2K to move over the summer once you add up moving vans, deposits at the school and for a new apartment). I am pretty sure transfers there this year only got like 12 OCI interviews, and both GULC and UVA seemed to have a much harder time in DC this year than one would think (anecdotal evidence, ask others on here for more specific info from GULCers and UVAers, as there seems to be a bunch).

You should be thinking Top 6 or bust at this point, assuming an even remotely similar performance. Chicago ED is binding, and with your grades, I don't think you should apply unless it is where you want to be. I am not a big fan of any of the ED programs for individuals in your situations because assuming you have a repeat/similar performance, you would get in during Regular Admission and have no reason to lock yourself out of potential spots at HYS (Chicago transfers on here didn't seem to thrilled with the way OCI panned out this year).

So all I have to say to the OP is: stop thinking about transferring (unless you really want to go to Chicago, then consider the ED), and focus on studying. Seriously, don't even come back to these boards until May. If you really want to transfer, don't think about it all! I know it sucks, but you will have plenty of time to do applications, etc., etc. in the summer. You need to focus on classes now.

I saw this advice at least a few times during my second semester and ignored it. Doing so is the single biggest regret of my law school career.

I disagree. Use it as motivation. You are 4 classes away from opening up doors that would have been closed to you at W&L. Fucking seize the day. Go talk to profs about transferring and feel them out for recs ASAP so you don't have to worry about it over the summer (assuming you are remotely close to any of them; pick two that you visited semi-regularly during office hours). Paste a damn picture of Yale over your bed if that is what it takes to get you studying.

Congrats on killling it and good luck in second semester.

[amped]

2.4 and 2.6 are a little worse than 2.72 - 2.4 is a lot worse, W&L's a little upwards of GMU, and I am currently at least tied for #1 and not #3 or just in the top 8%. I think I saw, on the transferapps group at yahoo, a 169 and 2.7 with great grades out of here get into Columbia. I think I'd want to wait to see if I at least start, I don't know, managing to stay awake in class this semester before I assume that I'm headed down and bind myself to some school. The truth is that the "if you ran the world" stuff is definitely not my strength, but it's not like issue-spotting and that rely on mutually exclusive skills. When it comes down to it, so long as I do the reading, pay attention in class, I'm sure I'd squeeze out some A minuses. It's not like anyone else likes talking about what amendments they'd like to make to the Rules of Civil Procedure either.

Do you have Rendleman?

Yes indeed. He's a nice old man but I'm not looking forward to that test.

Definitely the most useless exam ever. All I have to say is listen in class. It's painful, but that's the crap he will put on the exam. Last year one of the questions was like: Plato (or some philospher) said judges should interpret the law, what do you think? Ugh.

[aguacaliente]

I disagree. Use it as motivation. You are 4 classes away from opening up doors that would have been closed to you at W&L. Fucking seize the day. Go talk to profs about transferring and feel them out for recs ASAP so you don't have to worry about it over the summer (assuming you are remotely close to any of them; pick two that you visited semi-regularly during office hours). Paste a damn picture of Yale over your bed if that is what it takes to get you studying.

Congrats on killling it and good luck in second semester.

This is good advice, just be sure and follow it and work hard. As an H transfer, i can say that you definitely have a great shot a YHS if you remain as competitive. There are never guarantees, but all you can do is try. Use this opportunity to prove yourself!

[traydeuce]

2.4 and 2.6 are a little worse than 2.72 - 2.4 is a lot worse, W&L's a little upwards of GMU, and I am currently at least tied for #1 and not #3 or just in the top 8%. I think I saw, on the transferapps group at yahoo, a 169 and 2.7 with great grades out of here get into Columbia. I think I'd want to wait to see if I at least start, I don't know, managing to stay awake in class this semester before I assume that I'm headed down and bind myself to some school. The truth is that the "if you ran the world" stuff is definitely not my strength, but it's not like issue-spotting and that rely on mutually exclusive skills. When it comes down to it, so long as I do the reading, pay attention in class, I'm sure I'd squeeze out some A minuses. It's not like anyone else likes talking about what amendments they'd like to make to the Rules of Civil Procedure either.

Do you have Rendleman?

Yes indeed. He's a nice old man but I'm not looking forward to that test.

Definitely the most useless exam ever. All I have to say is listen in class. It's painful, but that's the crap he will put on the exam. Last year one of the questions was like: Plato (or some philospher) said judges should interpret the law, what do you think? Ugh.

The old exam is up to look at and the question isn't quite as bad as you make it out. Apparently Aristotle argued that judges should make exceptions to general rules in cases where equity demands it, and he asks whether you agree. I think a yes answer would be hard to say much for ("I like equity"), but a no answer has some possibilities. Such as, making exceptions would lead to inconsistency, unpredictability, why should we put much stock on judges' sense of equity, why would we assume that they know which claims are deserving of special exceptions and which aren't - and then you'd offer examples of cases you covered where the court was obviously making an exception to help a plaintiff get around some procedural mistake, and discuss what you find problematic about that decision... I think it's doable. So you transferred from here to Vanderbilt? Or do you just like their logo?

[Pearalegal]

You should have CLS locked down already. I think we now let in something like 250 transfers per year.

seriously doubt that.

I think he means "accept" rather than "matriculate"

It's probably a bit less, I'd say, maybe 100? (and a bunch probably end up going to HYS).

I think he was being sarcastic..

+1

C'mon people....

[laxgirl37]

I think UVA would be a great target- however, are you in-state or out of state? It seems to be a BIG advantage to be instate for transfer admissions.

[mpasi]

HYS purports to only admit transfer applicants who were suitable for regular admission. UT Austin is the same way. These guys really don't believe in second chances, I guess.

[traydeuce]

I'm out of state. And while HYS does purport to mostly admit applicants who could've gotten in the first time, there are cases where that hasn't happened. I don't know why I can't just say, "I didn't care much for college, and particularly the classes that I had to take to graduate, and therefore didn't take them at all seriously, but I do like law school so I take that seriously. And obviously I'm quite capable, and you know going forward I'll do very well."