Columbia 2013 Forum

[swc65]

hey, so I'm currently working on an updated TLS profile for Columbia. if you'd be willing to answer a few questions about the school to help supplement the profile, send me a message!

Hahaha ask in a month or two. Right now a lot of people are just pissed that we don't have grades and the jpob opportunities are slipping away day by day!

[swc65]

Woohoo! Last Memo of the semester turned in!

Hahaha and still no grade for LPW

[swc65]

I was hoping this would be the place to be to have an honest discussion of grades

Does that mean you've already gotten yours??? I am jealous. I have only gotten one so far, and it was for my easiest class, and it wasn't too fantastic, so maybe I should be glad I haven't gotten the others yet.

I'm sitting at 2/3 waiting for Long's torts grade (she took on double her expected class size). People are all wildly speculating about how long it will take her to get a grade out. I think Long knew what a mess it was going to be and won't screw us over (beyond making us wait to the deadline), plus most of her test was short answer with a simple grading rubric.

Her grade decides if this was an 'alright' semester or a great semester for me. I learned that I should have spent more time taking tests under real time constraints because that is what cost me. I managed to get away with a good K's grade precisely because I had 8 hours and didn't find myself burping up the first thing that came to my head like I did on the Civpro policy question that I got to with 30 minutes left...

I feel for those who are still waiting on 2 or 3 grades though.


How do Prof's feel about follow-up discussions of an exam (like just talking about where our exam fell short, for future exams)?
One prof. just posted some model answers (one by yours truly =P) and said "yea go look at those" to our class, the other hasn't said anything - grades came up and that was that. Either way they really don't open the door to talking about this, which seems crazy that you would just get a grade and absolutely no understanding of where you went wrong, no model answer, etc...

Which one was yours??

[Series70]

When is the deadline for 1L grades to come out, BTW?

[Alyssa]

Each professor has a different deadline according to when the exam was administered. 4 weeks for smaller sections, 6 weeks for larger ones.

I think the last possible deadline is February 2nd (?), but let's see how many professors adhere to that.

[swc65]

When is the deadline for 1L grades to come out, BTW?

Six weeks from the date of the exam for large classes (over 100) and four weeks from the date of the exam for small classes. However, it seems that many/most professors pay little to no attention to these deadlines.

[Polka]

I am just gonna sit here and revel in my HP (hilarious since I write like a donkey) and hope I never get grades for the rest of my classes.

[huckabees]

I am just gonna sit here and revel in my HP (hilarious since I write like a donkey) and hope I never get grades for the rest of my classes.

Haha, congrats.

Does anyone know what % actually get HP in LPW and if employers care at all? (I know they don't hold a P against you, but I was wondering if HP helps at all).

[Polka]

I think it's supposed to be around 15%. I find it hard to imagine employers could care (particularly when they could judge for themselves based on your writing sample) unless they were choosing between two virtually identical CLS students, one whom had a HP, but of course, I don't speak from experience.

[Foozle]

Passed LPW. Oh em gee.

so uhh...time to update grades?!?

[Sogui]

Feb. 2nd is here, technically past the 6-week deadline for Torts. I've heard rumors that Long received an extension due to the circumstances she was placed in, but I've also heard rumors that Dean Schizer sent out an email 'strongly' encouraging faculty to get their grades out.

Still not sure I want to see how Torts turned out though. Some of Long's questions came out of left field, but I was OCD about skipping anything so I would waste 12m on a 5m short answer looking for what Epstein said in the book about similar outcomes under Negligence v. Strict Liability. Ultimately I ended up having to rush the essay question, and I still feel like my answers at the beginning (first 15ish questions) and the end (Contruction company Q set) were starting to repeat themselves.

I mean, was I the only one who felt like she asked 10 questions at the beginning that all were basically answered with "The behavior described here was not the proximate cause of the resulting harm"? Either the questions were straight up proximate cause questions (Crossing a street drunk, hit by car regardless of sobriety...) or the logical equivalent under contributory negligence or assumption of risk (A tells B that the Dock is slippery and to stay away from edge, B stands near edge anyway, dock collapses from rotting wood. B sues A and A claims assumption of risk).

Either way I found myself reiterating the same logic over and over on that exam. I don't take that as a good sign.

[Sogui]

Which one was yours??

Answer #3, I found it really interesting that apparently he switched sides for half the exams. 50% of us argued for Duff, while 50% were tasked with arguing for Pequod. I also found it interesting that I was the only answer that came out strongly for Duff. I actually had a hard time tempering my position since I felt that 'in my gut', Duff was a clear winner. The 2nd question was just nuts for me, I felt like I could barely organize my response since every "issue" I could find had a spider-web of potential responses that branched out in every conceivable direction.

[KG_CalGuy]

Feb. 2nd is here, technically past the 6-week deadline for Torts. I've heard rumors that Long received an extension due to the circumstances she was placed in, but I've also heard rumors that Dean Schizer sent out an email 'strongly' encouraging faculty to get their grades out.

Still not sure I want to see how Torts turned out though. Some of Long's questions came out of left field, but I was OCD about skipping anything so I would waste 12m on a 5m short answer looking for what Epstein said in the book about similar outcomes under Negligence v. Strict Liability. Ultimately I ended up having to rush the essay question, and I still feel like my answers at the beginning (first 15ish questions) and the end (Contruction company Q set) were starting to repeat themselves.

I mean, was I the only one who felt like she asked 10 questions at the beginning that all were basically answered with "The behavior described here was not the proximate cause of the resulting harm"? Either the questions were straight up proximate cause questions (Crossing a street drunk, hit by car regardless of sobriety...) or the logical equivalent under contributory negligence or assumption of risk (A tells B that the Dock is slippery and to stay away from edge, B stands near edge anyway, dock collapses from rotting wood. B sues A and A claims assumption of risk).

Either way I found myself reiterating the same logic over and over on that exam. I don't take that as a good sign.

Technically Feb. 1 first is here, but Long's grades are up now either way.

[Sogui]

Yea, what was going on with my internal calendar there?

Either way, Long's test results make me sad. I guess it had to fulfill the inverse relationship between confidence and grades. Not sure what I would've changed on my test either...

[Nycanuck]

I got two B's so far. I just want honesty here. That basically means I"m in the bottom of the class right? Is it worth it for me to stay in law school? Do I still have a shot at a good job?

[ShakeDemHatersOff]

I got two B's so far. I just want honesty here. That basically means I"m in the bottom of the class right? Is it worth it for me to stay in law school? Do I still have a shot at a good job?

you still have another semester and 4 possible A's waiting for you

don't lose hope

plus this is CLS and you'll find A job....maybe not the best job

[KG_CalGuy]

I got two B's so far. I just want honesty here. That basically means I"m in the bottom of the class right? Is it worth it for me to stay in law school? Do I still have a shot at a good job?

From what I read earlier, straight B's through the first year will put you near the bottom of the class. Sadly, somebody has to be at the bottom. However, (and bear in mind that I too am a 1L and thus cannot speak with any substantial authority) I wouldn't suggest something as drastic as dropping out of law school after a semester in which you only receive 3 grades (especially since it's your first semester).

Prior to the release of grades, my 2L roommate advised me not to stress about the first semester of grades too much (unless you get a bunch of B-'s, in which case you are doing something wrong in your prep work). After all, we have 4 more grades coming this semester, more than enough to balance out the first semester.

If it comforts you at all I suppose I could let you know that Elena Kagan had "mediocre" grades at HLS her first semester (a B in crim law and a B- in torts--her only fall grades) and seemed to find something that "clicked" through the rest of her academic career. On a more anecdotal level, my own father received poor grades his first semester of law school at a second tier school (where grades arguably matter even more than at CLS in terms of simply getting a job), and was able to write-on to law review, pull his grades up and graduate in the top-third of his class, and make partner in a large law firm (after an initial stint a smaller firm). Of course, neither of these may be "representative" samples, but I think they lend support to the idea that hope is not lost and the future is by no means set in stone.

[heygina]

I got two B's so far. I just want honesty here. That basically means I"m in the bottom of the class right? Is it worth it for me to stay in law school? Do I still have a shot at a good job?

I've known several people who got straight Bs/B+s at CLS their 1L years who wound up with offers after 2L EIP and OCI. Don't give up!

[Sogui]

It depends on your 3rd grade as well. Don't forget that there is also 8-14% getting B-'s that will occupy the bottom of the barrel.

Justice Kagan got 3 B's (including a B-) her 1L year, but turned it around into straight A's and law review after that. Just figure out what you did wrong, talk to the professors who gave you those B's and try and shake things up this semester. Your job prospects are probably better than you are making them out to be as well.

[KG_CalGuy]

on another note, does anybody honestly think these "networking opportunity" events with firms are actually significant. I'm basically going for the free food and maybe to get a read on the vibe of the attorneys

[viking138]

on another note, does anybody honestly think these "networking opportunity" events with firms are actually significant. I'm basically going for the free food and maybe to get a read on the vibe of the attorneys

Yeah I feel the same. I don't think people should go for the networking because the chances of making a meaningful connection are pretty low. However, I've gotten some great info on the firms and I think it can be helpful to see the vibe you get from firms. Obviously they're putting on their best face, so if they don't appeal to you that should be significant.

[of Benito Cereno]

what are the policies for listing grades, gpa, and estimated class rank on our resumes. Many jobs ask for this information to be listed. For example, one government job I want to apply to today asks for "class rank, or if unavailable estimated position."
does cls have any policies in this regard.

[huckabees]

what are the policies for listing grades, gpa, and estimated class rank on our resumes. Many jobs ask for this information to be listed. For example, one government job I want to apply to today asks for "class rank, or if unavailable estimated position."
does cls have any policies in this regard.

If they ask for it to be listed, you might want to list it. However, CLS strongly discourages listing these (except named honors) for EIP.

[of Benito Cereno]

what are the policies for listing grades, gpa, and estimated class rank on our resumes. Many jobs ask for this information to be listed. For example, one government job I want to apply to today asks for "class rank, or if unavailable estimated position."
does cls have any policies in this regard.

If they ask for it to be listed, you might want to list it. However, CLS strongly discourages listing these (except named honors) for EIP.

why do they discourage it?

[CG614]

what are the policies for listing grades, gpa, and estimated class rank on our resumes. Many jobs ask for this information to be listed. For example, one government job I want to apply to today asks for "class rank, or if unavailable estimated position."
does cls have any policies in this regard.

I put N/A. In fact, I think it would be weird if you didn't. There is no official class rank, so how can you put one? Tell the employer that you put your GPA to a standard distribution based on the curve? I'd just go with N/A.