What is going on at Perkins? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Everyone already knows the tech-focused firms were hit hard in the past year and Perkins was definitely not immune. They delayed start dates of the newest class of first-year associates but are they still struggling?They might be one of the last V50 firms (if not the last) still not matching the new pay scale. Does anyone from inside the firm have insight into whether they will match before the next OCI recruiting cycle and what the current state of the firm is? I don't know how they can compete for talent this summer if they are not even matching the latest pay scale.

[Anonymous User]

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[Anonymous User]

Everyone already knows the tech-focused firms were hit hard in the past year and Perkins was definitely not immune. They delayed start dates of the newest class of first-year associates but are they still struggling?They might be one of the last V50 firms (if not the last) still not matching the new pay scale. Does anyone from inside the firm have insight into whether they will match before the next OCI recruiting cycle and what the current state of the firm is? I don't know how they can compete for talent this summer if they are not even matching the latest pay scale.

Perkins has offices in a bunch of offices in hard to crack markets like Denver, Seattle, Boise, and even places like LA and Chicago they can be selective because they’ll market themselves as a lifestyle firm.

They’ll get several hundred, if not thousand, applications for like 20 spots in these markets, a lot of them from top10%ers at places like UColorado and UWashington. They don’t have the same concerns as a place like some random NY-centric non-V10.

[Anonymous User]

Um ok. I'm confident they'll get plenty of applications from law schools everywhere but put yourself in the shoes of a rising 2L at any T14 school. If you can bag an offer from Perkins, you will almost certainly secure offers from the likes of Cooley, Wilson, Orrick, (insert other V50 here). A difference of 10K in salary would certainly send that student to Perkins' competitors. I'm sure that the Perkins hiring committee will be hiring from regional schools like UColorado and UW, but they are still very interested in pulling students from T14 schools.

[The Lsat Airbender]

Um ok. I'm confident they'll get plenty of applications from law schools everywhere but put yourself in the shoes of a rising 2L at any T14 school. If you can bag an offer from Perkins, you will almost certainly secure offers from the likes of Cooley, Wilson, Orrick, (insert other V50 here). A difference of 10K in salary would certainly send that student to Perkins' competitors. I'm sure that the Perkins hiring committee will be hiring from regional schools like UColorado and UW, but they are still very interested in pulling students from T14 schools.

Not remotely guaranteed that a T14 student will have multiple (e.g.) Seattle offers, even with great grades and ties. And not at all "certain[]" that a $10k/yr salary difference would be dispositive if you can get someone to drink the WLB koolaid, which 2Ls do constantly.

The risk for a firm like Perkins falling behind on market compensation is less about filling OCI classes with good-enough summers and more about retaining midlevel/senior associates.

[dyemond]

Um ok. I'm confident they'll get plenty of applications from law schools everywhere but put yourself in the shoes of a rising 2L at any T14 school. If you can bag an offer from Perkins, you will almost certainly secure offers from the likes of Cooley, Wilson, Orrick, (insert other V50 here). A difference of 10K in salary would certainly send that student to Perkins' competitors. I'm sure that the Perkins hiring committee will be hiring from regional schools like UColorado and UW, but they are still very interested in pulling students from T14 schools.

Perkins cares about pulling T14 candidates, but the vast majority of the most elite T14 talent are going to places like DC or SF or a firm like WLRK, there is little pressure on Denver/Seattle firms, in extremely small but desirable markets, to bow to the demands of the NY market. Perkins has more leverage in this situation and does not need to accommodate the requirements of median T14 students who would otherwise go to a NY v50, there will be many strong t14 students trying to crack the Seattle/Denver markets regardless of the pay disparity.


Again, there will be thousands of apps for a tiny grouping of spots and top students at the local schools will be happy to go to a place like Perkins. Plus, you can get that shiny T14 talent down the road once they’ve burned out at a V10 and are comfortable with some salary compression in exchange for a downshift in hours, demands and expectation.

[Anonymous User]

I also heard the last salary raise was hotly disputed. Some partners didn’t want to increase associate comp and some associates didn’t want the big bump in the billable hour requirement. I imagine there’s a lot of discussion now over whether to raise salaries and enforce billable requirements.

[Moneytrees]

Love the Perkins stans trying to justify not keeping up with market salaries lmao. Get real.

[Anonymous User]

Not a Perkins employee but was considering applying and spoke with several associates/partners. Billable hours requirements have been consistently increasing there (1950 as of last year). Yet salaries are pretty stagnant. They are below market in many of their more “local” offices too (not just Seattle/DC/etc.)

And, fwiw, the DEI koolaid is very, very strong there. Obviously, that will be a plus for some and a minus for others.

[Moneytrees]

Not a Perkins employee but was considering applying and spoke with several associates/partners. Billable hours requirements have been consistently increasing there (1950 as of last year). Yet salaries are pretty stagnant. They are below market in many of their more “local” offices too (not just Seattle/DC/etc.)

And, fwiw, the DEI koolaid is very, very strong there. Obviously, that will be a plus for some and a minus for others.

Last part is super true. Perkins without the DEI initiatives and liberal reputation is just another generic V100.

[Anonymous User]

Love the Perkins stans trying to justify not keeping up with market salaries lmao. Get real.

I don't work at Perkins but this mentality is really only justified in their NY/CA offices, and I'm pretty sure they're a tier below other native firms there anyways (so the below market pay isn't surprising nor would it likely be the factor that pushes candidates away... e.g., you would be dumb to choose Perkins over Cooley CA or any V50 NY).

The vast majority of Perkins associates are at its Seattle HQ... where only a handful of associates (read: probably 50 at WSGR/Cooley/DLA Piper's satellite offices) get paid on the Cravath scale for all class years. The second largest Seattle native firm (behind Perkins) is DWT, and they don't pay market. Most T14 students can't break into Seattle even if they wanted to, and the lower COL in Seattle vs. NY/CA + lack of income tax makes the salary gaps for years 1-4 almost a wash. By year 5, most people in NY/CA are out of BL entirely.

[Anonymous User]

Love the Perkins stans trying to justify not keeping up with market salaries lmao. Get real.

I don't work at Perkins but this mentality is really only justified in their NY/CA offices, and I'm pretty sure they're a tier below other native firms there anyways (so the below market pay isn't surprising nor would it likely be the factor that pushes candidates away... e.g., you would be dumb to choose Perkins over Cooley CA or any V50 NY).

The vast majority of Perkins associates are at its Seattle HQ... where only a handful of associates (read: probably 50 at WSGR/Cooley/DLA Piper's satellite offices) get paid on the Cravath scale for all class years. The second largest Seattle native firm (behind Perkins) is DWT, and they don't pay market. Most T14 students can't break into Seattle even if they wanted to, and the lower COL in Seattle vs. NY/CA + lack of income tax makes the salary gaps for years 1-4 almost a wash. By year 5, most people in NY/CA are out of BL entirely.

Come on.
This is cope.

Seattle is no longer a sleepy cheap town to live in. It's very expensive and on par with NY/CA.
The lack of income tax does not make the salary gaps almost a wash.

[Anonymous User]

Love the Perkins stans trying to justify not keeping up with market salaries lmao. Get real.

I don't work at Perkins but this mentality is really only justified in their NY/CA offices, and I'm pretty sure they're a tier below other native firms there anyways (so the below market pay isn't surprising nor would it likely be the factor that pushes candidates away... e.g., you would be dumb to choose Perkins over Cooley CA or any V50 NY).

The vast majority of Perkins associates are at its Seattle HQ... where only a handful of associates (read: probably 50 at WSGR/Cooley/DLA Piper's satellite offices) get paid on the Cravath scale for all class years. The second largest Seattle native firm (behind Perkins) is DWT, and they don't pay market. Most T14 students can't break into Seattle even if they wanted to, and the lower COL in Seattle vs. NY/CA + lack of income tax makes the salary gaps for years 1-4 almost a wash. By year 5, most people in NY/CA are out of BL entirely.

Come on.
This is cope.

Seattle is no longer a sleepy cheap town to live in. It's very expensive and on par with NY/CA.
The lack of income tax does not make the salary gaps almost a wash.

It’s not cope if someone wants to live in Seattle so badly that they are willing to accept a below market salary. But, to that person: sorry you didn’t get the offer at WSGR/Cooley/DLA Piper/etc

[Anonymous User]

Love the Perkins stans trying to justify not keeping up with market salaries lmao. Get real.

I don't work at Perkins but this mentality is really only justified in their NY/CA offices, and I'm pretty sure they're a tier below other native firms there anyways (so the below market pay isn't surprising nor would it likely be the factor that pushes candidates away... e.g., you would be dumb to choose Perkins over Cooley CA or any V50 NY).

The vast majority of Perkins associates are at its Seattle HQ... where only a handful of associates (read: probably 50 at WSGR/Cooley/DLA Piper's satellite offices) get paid on the Cravath scale for all class years. The second largest Seattle native firm (behind Perkins) is DWT, and they don't pay market. Most T14 students can't break into Seattle even if they wanted to, and the lower COL in Seattle vs. NY/CA + lack of income tax makes the salary gaps for years 1-4 almost a wash. By year 5, most people in NY/CA are out of BL entirely.

Come on.
This is cope.

Seattle is no longer a sleepy cheap town to live in. It's very expensive and on par with NY/CA.
The lack of income tax does not make the salary gaps almost a wash.

A 2b2b on Microsoft campus goes for $3.5K. I don't know what the prime spot equivalent is in NYC, but no shot even the subtier neighborhoods like downtown bk matches this.

[Anonymous User]

Love the Perkins stans trying to justify not keeping up with market salaries lmao. Get real.

I don't work at Perkins but this mentality is really only justified in their NY/CA offices, and I'm pretty sure they're a tier below other native firms there anyways (so the below market pay isn't surprising nor would it likely be the factor that pushes candidates away... e.g., you would be dumb to choose Perkins over Cooley CA or any V50 NY).

The vast majority of Perkins associates are at its Seattle HQ... where only a handful of associates (read: probably 50 at WSGR/Cooley/DLA Piper's satellite offices) get paid on the Cravath scale for all class years. The second largest Seattle native firm (behind Perkins) is DWT, and they don't pay market. Most T14 students can't break into Seattle even if they wanted to, and the lower COL in Seattle vs. NY/CA + lack of income tax makes the salary gaps for years 1-4 almost a wash. By year 5, most people in NY/CA are out of BL entirely.

Come on.
This is cope.

Seattle is no longer a sleepy cheap town to live in. It's very expensive and on par with NY/CA.
The lack of income tax does not make the salary gaps almost a wash.

A 2b2b on Microsoft campus goes for $3.5K. I don't know what the prime spot equivalent is in NYC, but no shot even the subtier neighborhoods like downtown bk matches this.

Msoft campus is basically in a suburb. Nobody in Seattle would call it a “prime spot”

[dyemond]

Love the Perkins stans trying to justify not keeping up with market salaries lmao. Get real.

I don't work at Perkins but this mentality is really only justified in their NY/CA offices, and I'm pretty sure they're a tier below other native firms there anyways (so the below market pay isn't surprising nor would it likely be the factor that pushes candidates away... e.g., you would be dumb to choose Perkins over Cooley CA or any V50 NY).

The vast majority of Perkins associates are at its Seattle HQ... where only a handful of associates (read: probably 50 at WSGR/Cooley/DLA Piper's satellite offices) get paid on the Cravath scale for all class years. The second largest Seattle native firm (behind Perkins) is DWT, and they don't pay market. Most T14 students can't break into Seattle even if they wanted to, and the lower COL in Seattle vs. NY/CA + lack of income tax makes the salary gaps for years 1-4 almost a wash. By year 5, most people in NY/CA are out of BL entirely.

Come on.
This is cope.

Seattle is no longer a sleepy cheap town to live in. It's very expensive and on par with NY/CA.
The lack of income tax does not make the salary gaps almost a wash.

Consider for just a moment that not every firm needs to be engaged in the NYC corporate arms-race and that forcing firms to match v10s with $5mm+ in ppep comes at the expense of WLB and higher billable expectations. Posters here often can’t see the bigger picture but it would be cool if you tried.

[Anonymous User]

Love the Perkins stans trying to justify not keeping up with market salaries lmao. Get real.

I don't work at Perkins but this mentality is really only justified in their NY/CA offices, and I'm pretty sure they're a tier below other native firms there anyways (so the below market pay isn't surprising nor would it likely be the factor that pushes candidates away... e.g., you would be dumb to choose Perkins over Cooley CA or any V50 NY).

The vast majority of Perkins associates are at its Seattle HQ... where only a handful of associates (read: probably 50 at WSGR/Cooley/DLA Piper's satellite offices) get paid on the Cravath scale for all class years. The second largest Seattle native firm (behind Perkins) is DWT, and they don't pay market. Most T14 students can't break into Seattle even if they wanted to, and the lower COL in Seattle vs. NY/CA + lack of income tax makes the salary gaps for years 1-4 almost a wash. By year 5, most people in NY/CA are out of BL entirely.

Come on.
This is cope.

Seattle is no longer a sleepy cheap town to live in. It's very expensive and on par with NY/CA.
The lack of income tax does not make the salary gaps almost a wash.

Consider for just a moment that not every firm needs to be engaged in the NYC corporate arms-race and that forcing firms to match v10s with $5mm+ in ppep comes at the expense of WLB and higher billable expectations. Posters here often can’t see the bigger picture but it would be cool if you tried.

True. If the client billable rates aren’t on par with what NYC firms are bringing in that extra dollar for associates will come from bleeding the associates (and probably partners) dry.

[Anonymous User]

Love the Perkins stans trying to justify not keeping up with market salaries lmao. Get real.

I don't work at Perkins but this mentality is really only justified in their NY/CA offices, and I'm pretty sure they're a tier below other native firms there anyways (so the below market pay isn't surprising nor would it likely be the factor that pushes candidates away... e.g., you would be dumb to choose Perkins over Cooley CA or any V50 NY).

The vast majority of Perkins associates are at its Seattle HQ... where only a handful of associates (read: probably 50 at WSGR/Cooley/DLA Piper's satellite offices) get paid on the Cravath scale for all class years. The second largest Seattle native firm (behind Perkins) is DWT, and they don't pay market. Most T14 students can't break into Seattle even if they wanted to, and the lower COL in Seattle vs. NY/CA + lack of income tax makes the salary gaps for years 1-4 almost a wash. By year 5, most people in NY/CA are out of BL entirely.

Come on.
This is cope.

Seattle is no longer a sleepy cheap town to live in. It's very expensive and on par with NY/CA.
The lack of income tax does not make the salary gaps almost a wash.

A 2b2b on Microsoft campus goes for $3.5K. I don't know what the prime spot equivalent is in NYC, but no shot even the subtier neighborhoods like downtown bk matches this.

Msoft campus is basically in a suburb. Nobody in Seattle would call it a “prime spot”

Fair. Upcharged is what I meant. Like, you're paying more than what you need to.