What is going on at STB? Forum

[Anonymous User]

What is going on at Simpson Thacher? I've heard separately from numerous friends/acquaintances who work there that a large number of associates had bonuses cut significantly for failing to comply with RTO, were put on "PIPs," and/or were outright terminated. Apparently most of the terminations, PIPs and/or bonus reductions were communicated in December. From what I've heard, associates who were terminated were in most cases given pretty generous "severance" packages (generous website time and a generous period during which they'll remain on payroll), so maybe that's why this has remained under wraps so far. Anyone have more details?

[Anonymous User]

All for not complying with RTO?

[Anonymous User]

No idea, but I got the impression that bonus cuts are the only consequence for not complying with RTO. The PIPs/terminations are probably justified in some cases, but the number of people in that bucket seems to indicate stealth layoffs too.

[Anonymous User]

What is going on at Simpson Thacher? I've heard separately from numerous friends/acquaintances who work there that a large number of associates had bonuses cut significantly for failing to comply with RTO, were put on "PIPs," and/or were outright terminated. Apparently most of the terminations, PIPs and/or bonus reductions were communicated in December. From what I've heard, associates who were terminated were in most cases given pretty generous "severance" packages (generous website time and a generous period during which they'll remain on payroll), so maybe that's why this has remained under wraps so far. Anyone have more details?

Literally nothing happened to STB. It's still the middle-tier NY biglaw firm it always was

[CondescendingLiberal]

What is going on at Simpson Thacher? I've heard separately from numerous friends/acquaintances who work there that a large number of associates had bonuses cut significantly for failing to comply with RTO, were put on "PIPs," and/or were outright terminated. Apparently most of the terminations, PIPs and/or bonus reductions were communicated in December. From what I've heard, associates who were terminated were in most cases given pretty generous "severance" packages (generous website time and a generous period during which they'll remain on payroll), so maybe that's why this has remained under wraps so far. Anyone have more details?

Literally nothing happened to STB. It's still the middle-tier NY biglaw firm it always was

Ridiculous comment. Many people in my YLS class went there as their first choice

[Anonymous User]

What is going on at Simpson Thacher? I've heard separately from numerous friends/acquaintances who work there that a large number of associates had bonuses cut significantly for failing to comply with RTO, were put on "PIPs," and/or were outright terminated. Apparently most of the terminations, PIPs and/or bonus reductions were communicated in December. From what I've heard, associates who were terminated were in most cases given pretty generous "severance" packages (generous website time and a generous period during which they'll remain on payroll), so maybe that's why this has remained under wraps so far. Anyone have more details?

Literally nothing happened to STB. It's still the middle-tier NY biglaw firm it always was

Ridiculous comment. Many people in my YLS class went there as their first choice

Were they all at the very bottom
of your class?

[Anonymous User]

What is going on at Simpson Thacher? I've heard separately from numerous friends/acquaintances who work there that a large number of associates had bonuses cut significantly for failing to comply with RTO, were put on "PIPs," and/or were outright terminated. Apparently most of the terminations, PIPs and/or bonus reductions were communicated in December. From what I've heard, associates who were terminated were in most cases given pretty generous "severance" packages (generous website time and a generous period during which they'll remain on payroll), so maybe that's why this has remained under wraps so far. Anyone have more details?

Literally nothing happened to STB. It's still the middle-tier NY biglaw firm it always was

Ridiculous comment. Many people in my YLS class went there as their first choice

Were they all at the very bottom
of your class?

Has the anti-STB troll resurfaced again?

[Anonymous User]

What is going on at Simpson Thacher? I've heard separately from numerous friends/acquaintances who work there that a large number of associates had bonuses cut significantly for failing to comply with RTO, were put on "PIPs," and/or were outright terminated. Apparently most of the terminations, PIPs and/or bonus reductions were communicated in December. From what I've heard, associates who were terminated were in most cases given pretty generous "severance" packages (generous website time and a generous period during which they'll remain on payroll), so maybe that's why this has remained under wraps so far. Anyone have more details?

Literally nothing happened to STB. It's still the middle-tier NY biglaw firm it always was

Ridiculous comment. Many people in my YLS class went there as their first choice

Were they all at the very bottom
of your class?

Not OP but STB is probably a top three firm in NY

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, not sure how this turned into a debate about STB’s prestige, but let’s not pretend it’s a mid-tier firm. So, anyway, back to the original question …

[Anonymous User]

What is going on at Simpson Thacher? I've heard separately from numerous friends/acquaintances who work there that a large number of associates had bonuses cut significantly for failing to comply with RTO, were put on "PIPs," and/or were outright terminated. Apparently most of the terminations, PIPs and/or bonus reductions were communicated in December. From what I've heard, associates who were terminated were in most cases given pretty generous "severance" packages (generous website time and a generous period during which they'll remain on payroll), so maybe that's why this has remained under wraps so far. Anyone have more details?

Literally nothing happened to STB. It's still the middle-tier NY biglaw firm it always was

Ridiculous comment. Many people in my YLS class went there as their first choice

Were they all at the very bottom
of your class?

Not OP but STB is probably a top three firm in NY

How?

I would put Wachtell/Cravath/S&C/DPW/P&W/maybe even Skadden above Simpson.

[Anonymous User]

Lol at STB being top 3. It's top 10 though. I don't think anyone would deny that. The tiers have always been

WLRK/CSM

DPW/SC

Skadden/PW/STB/LW

[GFox345]

This Board is a fucking cesspit.

[Anonymous User]

Lol at STB being top 3. It's top 10 though. I don't think anyone would deny that. The tiers have always been

WLRK/CSM

DPW/SC

Skadden/PW/STB/LW

Nice unearned DPW boost - they're there or thereabouts for M&A, but not miles ahead of any of the others for M&A. And "always" if you're going back about five years. (PW and LW are definitely newcomers as corporate players in NY. If you're including them you have to include K&E. LW more for capital markets than M&A in New York.) More conventional / robust analyses for M&A would have the tiers at:

1. WLRK / CSM
2. S&C / Skadden (although Skadden may have fallen off a bit)
3. DPW / STB / Cleary (historically) / K&E / PW / LW
4. Weil / Debevoise / GDC / Cleary (possibly now) / Freshfields

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, not sure how this turned into a debate about STB’s prestige, but let’s not pretend it’s a mid-tier firm. So, anyway, back to the original question …

[The Lsat Airbender]

Yeah, not sure how this turned into a debate about STB’s prestige, but let’s not pretend it’s a mid-tier firm. So, anyway, back to the original question …

TLS hivemind literally can't distinguish prestige from job security. Probably because of GFC trauma.

[Anonymous User]

When one firm pays twice as much as every other firm, that firm is in its own tier lol. Full stop.

Simpson is a great firm though, not sure where the hate is coming from. Not sure about the layoffs though. If I had to guess, probably more indicative of the fact that STB hired pretty heavily throughout the SPAC boom/2021 and SPACs are dead plus PE has slowed in a high interest rate environment.

[Anonymous User]

STB 4th year. Here is my understanding of the facts.

Rule via updated handbook earlier this year: STB has discretionary ability to reduce bonus for not complying with RTO of 3 days week average.

The bonus was paid Dec 29. From my data points: those who were impacted were (a) asked to schedule their review prior to 12/29 and (b) told that their bonuses would cut 20% for not complying with RTO 3 days a week average.

The rest were given the option to schedule their review with the partner either in December or January.

Not facts: I believe, though may not be case across the board, that each of these individuals who were withheld 20% had performance issues.

minor edits for clarity

[Anonymous User]

STB 4th year. Here is my understanding of the facts.

Rule via updated handbook earlier this year: STB has discretionary ability to reduce bonus for not complying with RTO of 3 days week average.

The bonus was paid Dec 29. From my data points: those who were impacted were (a) asked to schedule their review prior to 12/29 and (b) told that their bonuses would cut 20% for not complying with RTO 3 days a week average.

The rest were given the option to schedule their review with the partner either in December or January.

Not facts: I believe, though may not be case across the board, that each of these individuals who were withheld 20% had performance issues.

minor edits for clarity

Jesus. That's lame as hell.

How do they confirm you're in office?
Do they send someone around to check in? And how long does one need to stay to count as being in office for the day??

[Anonymous User]

STB 4th year. Here is my understanding of the facts.

Rule via updated handbook earlier this year: STB has discretionary ability to reduce bonus for not complying with RTO of 3 days week average.

The bonus was paid Dec 29. From my data points: those who were impacted were (a) asked to schedule their review prior to 12/29 and (b) told that their bonuses would cut 20% for not complying with RTO 3 days a week average.

The rest were given the option to schedule their review with the partner either in December or January.

Not facts: I believe, though may not be case across the board, that each of these individuals who were withheld 20% had performance issues.

minor edits for clarity

Jesus. That's lame as hell.

How do they confirm you're in office?
Do they send someone around to check in? And how long does one need to stay to count as being in office for the day??

We are unsure. Maybe swiping card. Def no one checks office by office (and assistants do not either).

I understand from a biz perspective.

[Anonymous User]

STB 4th year. Here is my understanding of the facts.

Rule via updated handbook earlier this year: STB has discretionary ability to reduce bonus for not complying with RTO of 3 days week average.

The bonus was paid Dec 29. From my data points: those who were impacted were (a) asked to schedule their review prior to 12/29 and (b) told that their bonuses would cut 20% for not complying with RTO 3 days a week average.

The rest were given the option to schedule their review with the partner either in December or January.

Not facts: I believe, though may not be case across the board, that each of these individuals who were withheld 20% had performance issues.

minor edits for clarity

Jesus. That's lame as hell.

How do they confirm you're in office?
Do they send someone around to check in? And how long does one need to stay to count as being in office for the day??

We are unsure. Maybe swiping card. Def no one checks office by office (and assistants do not either).

I understand from a biz perspective.

STB associate in a non-NY office. My understanding is that many, but certainly not all, of the people impacted by RTO bonus cuts also had performance issues. I am aware of a few people who are known to be good associates and whose bonuses were cut purely for noncompliance with RTO; however, in those cases the noncompliance was pretty extreme. I am also aware of a few people whose bonuses were cut purely for performance issues but who were not PIP’d or terminated, and my impression of those associates is that they are pretty average performers—definitely not grinders or rock stars, but generally fine and net adding value. So that’s … interesting.

The firm has declined to officially tell associates how they are tracking attendance, which is frustrating for associates in light of the fact that bonuses are now tied to attendance. In my (non-NY office), our attendance is tracked through a combination of keycard swipes, VPN tracking and office checks (yes, really). If we are working from home or otherwise out of the office (including for client or firm business), we are supposed to inform a list of staff members who are involved with HR/staffing-type matters in advance. I don’t know whether people are actually doing that.

[Anonymous User]

STB 4th year. Here is my understanding of the facts.

Rule via updated handbook earlier this year: STB has discretionary ability to reduce bonus for not complying with RTO of 3 days week average.

The bonus was paid Dec 29. From my data points: those who were impacted were (a) asked to schedule their review prior to 12/29 and (b) told that their bonuses would cut 20% for not complying with RTO 3 days a week average.

The rest were given the option to schedule their review with the partner either in December or January.

Not facts: I believe, though may not be case across the board, that each of these individuals who were withheld 20% had performance issues.

minor edits for clarity

Jesus. That's lame as hell.

How do they confirm you're in office?
Do they send someone around to check in? And how long does one need to stay to count as being in office for the day??

We are unsure. Maybe swiping card. Def no one checks office by office (and assistants do not either).

I understand from a biz perspective.

STB associate in a non-NY office. My understanding is that many, but certainly not all, of the people impacted by RTO bonus cuts also had performance issues. I am aware of a few people who are known to be good associates and whose bonuses were cut purely for noncompliance with RTO; however, in those cases the noncompliance was pretty extreme. I am also aware of a few people whose bonuses were cut purely for performance issues but who were not PIP’d or terminated, and my impression of those associates is that they are pretty average performers—definitely not grinders or rock stars, but generally fine and net adding value. So that’s … interesting.

The firm has declined to officially tell associates how they are tracking attendance, which is frustrating for associates in light of the fact that bonuses are now tied to attendance. In my (non-NY office), our attendance is tracked through a combination of keycard swipes, VPN tracking and office checks (yes, really). If we are working from home or otherwise out of the office (including for client or firm business), we are supposed to inform a list of staff members who are involved with HR/staffing-type matters in advance. I don’t know whether people are actually doing that.

smdh.
Well, definitely not throwing them an app.

[Anonymous User]

STB 4th year. Here is my understanding of the facts.

Rule via updated handbook earlier this year: STB has discretionary ability to reduce bonus for not complying with RTO of 3 days week average.

The bonus was paid Dec 29. From my data points: those who were impacted were (a) asked to schedule their review prior to 12/29 and (b) told that their bonuses would cut 20% for not complying with RTO 3 days a week average.

The rest were given the option to schedule their review with the partner either in December or January.

Not facts: I believe, though may not be case across the board, that each of these individuals who were withheld 20% had performance issues.

minor edits for clarity

Jesus. That's lame as hell.

How do they confirm you're in office?
Do they send someone around to check in? And how long does one need to stay to count as being in office for the day??

We are unsure. Maybe swiping card. Def no one checks office by office (and assistants do not either).

I understand from a biz perspective.

STB associate in a non-NY office. My understanding is that many, but certainly not all, of the people impacted by RTO bonus cuts also had performance issues. I am aware of a few people who are known to be good associates and whose bonuses were cut purely for noncompliance with RTO; however, in those cases the noncompliance was pretty extreme. I am also aware of a few people whose bonuses were cut purely for performance issues but who were not PIP’d or terminated, and my impression of those associates is that they are pretty average performers—definitely not grinders or rock stars, but generally fine and net adding value. So that’s … interesting.

The firm has declined to officially tell associates how they are tracking attendance, which is frustrating for associates in light of the fact that bonuses are now tied to attendance. In my (non-NY office), our attendance is tracked through a combination of keycard swipes, VPN tracking and office checks (yes, really). If we are working from home or otherwise out of the office (including for client or firm business), we are supposed to inform a list of staff members who are involved with HR/staffing-type matters in advance. I don’t know whether people are actually doing that.

smdh.
Well, definitely not throwing them an app.

4th year from above. Agree with the performance issue point. LOL, welcome to biglaw. They'll eat you up and spit you out. This is standard across biglaw, and performance based CUTS are more common than ATL or your recruiting office will tell you. There is a an expectation to be great. Up or out.

RTO is important and STB has been lax for a while. We're 4 days in.

Free food in NYC 6TH floor cafe; can you throw us an app - were desperate!

[Lifesonalex]

can you distinguish which office you're referencing?

[Anonymous User]

can you distinguish which office you're referencing?

nyc

[Anonymous User]

can you distinguish which office you're referencing?

4th year. nyc; firmwide i hear