working at firm vs state solicitor general's office Forum

[Chicaaa]

I have an appellate clerkship lined up and one or two gap years. I can either go to a big firm or work at a state solicitor general's office (think New Mexico, Utah). Thoughts on what route to pursue and why? I am not planning to practice law long-term in the state where the SG's office is.

[Anonymous User]

How much do you have in student loans? How much does building a nest egg matter to you given personal and family obligations? What BL opportunities are available to you? Assuming equal pay, which job would you pick? What is the pay (roughly) at the SSG? What are your long-term career goals, both substantive and geographical?

[Chicaaa]

50k in student loans. No family obligations, but I am in my 30s. I have a big law opp at a litigation firm (think W&C). The pay at the SSG is like 75k, so it would be significantly less. The state where the SSG is on the same coast but a different state from where I want to practice.

[Anonymous User]

50k in student loans. No family obligations, but I am in my 30s. I have a big law opp at a litigation firm (think W&C). The pay at the SSG is like 75k, so it would be significantly less. The state where the SSG is on the same coast but a different state from where I want to practice.

With respect, these didn't really answer any of my questions except the first, and I don't know why, since clearly you are sharp given your options unless you are trolling. My questions were clear and designed to help people give you useful advice. So, take two.

What would you be doing at the W&C-ish firm, and how desirable is that to you in comparison to what you would be doing at the SSG office?

Do you want to get married and have a family, and do you want your HHI to be more or less than $100k post-tax?

What is the COL in the state where you want to practice, and is there anything in particular you want to be doing there, or do you just want to be in that state? Would you be fine making $50k in that state?

Assuming equal pay, which of the two jobs would you pick?

What are your long-term career goals, both substantive and geographical?

[RedNewJersey]

In my opinion, there's little point in working at a state SG's office so early. You won't be ready to rack up arguments, so you'll basically be writing briefs--disproportionately on random criminal stuff--for less than half the pay.

Once you're a 4th year or so, it can make sense to go to an SG's office to get a bunch of arguments and other cool experience. But that's after you get biglaw training.

Also, you need to find out whether you enjoy working at a large law firm. This is the perfect opportunity. If you don't like it, you have time and a chance to pivot. If you do like it, you can work at a state SG's office to get reps in later.

[CanadianWolf]

Go to the Big Firm for Big Money.

[Anonymous User]

The main benefit of going to the State SG office at this stage of your career would be a prestige move for SCOTUS clerkship. Is your clerkship with a feeder judge? I assume it is if it's 1-2 years out. Do you have any intel whether the State SG is good for mentorship?

In short, I would only take it if you think you have a SCOTUS clerk shot (and that's what you want too).

[Anonymous User]

50k in student loans. No family obligations, but I am in my 30s. I have a big law opp at a litigation firm (think W&C). The pay at the SSG is like 75k, so it would be significantly less. The state where the SSG is on the same coast but a different state from where I want to practice.

With respect, these didn't really answer any of my questions except the first, and I don't know why, since clearly you are sharp given your options unless you are trolling. My questions were clear and designed to help people give you useful advice. So, take two.

What would you be doing at the W&C-ish firm, and how desirable is that to you in comparison to what you would be doing at the SSG office?
I would presumably be working trial and appellate litigation at the firm. It is unclear what I would exactly do at the SG's office.

Do you want to get married and have a family, and do you want your HHI to be more or less than $100k post-tax?

Getting married down the line would be nice, but it's not on the horizon yet. I worry about my long-term career trajectory rather than immediate wants even though I come from poverty.

What is the COL in the state where you want to practice, and is there anything in particular you want to be doing there, or do you just want to be in that state? Would you be fine making $50k in that state?

The COL is very high in the state where i want to practice, and i think long term I'd want to work at the state SG's office. I will not be ok making 50k there. I would probably work at a big firm after the clerkship for a few years.

Assuming equal pay, which of the two jobs would you pick?
[*][*]I don't know. That's why I am asking people to share their thoughts here.

What are your long-term career goals, both substantive and geographical?
I am flexible regarding location, but ideally, the state where I am from (which is different from where the state where I got the SG offer). In the long-run I'd like to work at my home state's SGs office or in DC for the govt.

[Anonymous User]

Go big law. If it is like W&C, the pay difference at your age (with your loans and the years of earning you missed out on going to law school) is too big to pass up. State AG is fine, but you don’t know what you’ll be doing and some AG work (like biglaw work) will not be exciting.

[CanadianWolf]

OP: Your answer to the question regarding job preference if the pay was the same for both positions says it all.

[Anonymous User]

I did one year at a state SG office between two clerkships. (This was at a state SG office that had a one-year fellowship.) Afterwards, I transitioned into a top appellate practice group in DC before moving into an appellate role at DOJ.

I'm very happy to have done the year at the state SG office. Contrary to some other comments in the thread, I did have the opportunity to do my first couple oral arguments, as well as significant substantive briefing experience (in criminal and civil matters, including high-profile matters). Having this experience also seemed very beneficial when I started at my firm post-second-clerkship, as I had more briefing and argument experience than any other associate at my seniority level. This led to very good appellate opportunities at the firm, followed by an opportunity to transition to DOJ.

Certainly there are tradeoffs, particularly financial. But if going to biglaw after the clerkship is a pretty sure thing, you'll be able to pay off your loans and start building your financial nest egg when you get there, and you may have enhanced career prospects from that trade. But I do think that depends a fair amount on the experience you get at the state SG's office and how you then pitch it to the firm afterwards.

[lavarman84]

This is a hard question to answer based on the information you provided. I think there are a lot of benefits to working for a state SG's office. But there is a huge difference between the criminal appellate work (generally speaking) and the civil appellate/political work. If it's the latter, that experience is a lot better because you'll have opportunities to work on more significant cases (even if you aren't necessarily the lead), get involved in the amicus work, possibly offer legal opinions on policy (depending on how your office is structured), and lead lower stakes cases (including potentially getting argument experience).

Criminal appeals allow you to get a lot of experience writing briefs, leading your own cases, and potentially even a good bit of argument experience, but the cases on the whole are a lot less sophisticated and the lawyering on the other side isn't nearly as good (generally speaking).

[Anonymous User]

I am currently working at a state SG's office right after finishing clerkships, and I will say your experience will vary wildly depending on the State. Some state SGs take over all important appeals, some just monitor and give advice while spending most of their time on amicus briefs and the REALLY critical cases, which are not many. If your office is the former, it's great experience, if the latter, it could get very academic and not very useful for your career.

[Anonymous User]

I am currently working at a state SG's office right after finishing clerkships, and I will say your experience will vary wildly depending on the State. Some state SGs take over all important appeals, some just monitor and give advice while spending most of their time on amicus briefs and the REALLY critical cases, which are not many. If your office is the former, it's great experience, if the latter, it could get very academic and not very useful for your career.

Any thoughts on which SSG offices are good/bad? In particular, know anything about TN, ID, or GA?

[Anonymous User]

I am currently working at a state SG's office right after finishing clerkships, and I will say your experience will vary wildly depending on the State. Some state SGs take over all important appeals, some just monitor and give advice while spending most of their time on amicus briefs and the REALLY critical cases, which are not many. If your office is the former, it's great experience, if the latter, it could get very academic and not very useful for your career.

Any thoughts on which SSG offices are good/bad? In particular, know anything about TN, ID, or GA?

TN has had a long-time SG, but that office has younger lawyers who function more like most states' solicitors general. TN recently added two young former SCOTUS clerks to its SG office and you can expect it to be a very active and very good SG office while those two are there.

[Anonymous User]

Agreed with the other poster re TN. I know less about the other two, but since Skrmetti has taken over the office has become more involved and increasingly become a bigger player in legal and political realm.

[Anonymous User]

Any insight into Dem-leaning SSG offices known for being good/bad? (i.e., CA, NY, DC, maybe IL and NJ)

[Anonymous User]

I am currently working at a state SG's office right after finishing clerkships, and I will say your experience will vary wildly depending on the State. Some state SGs take over all important appeals, some just monitor and give advice while spending most of their time on amicus briefs and the REALLY critical cases, which are not many. If your office is the former, it's great experience, if the latter, it could get very academic and not very useful for your career.

Any thoughts on which SSG offices are good/bad? In particular, know anything about TN, ID, or GA?

TN has had a long-time SG, but that office has younger lawyers who function more like most states' solicitors general. TN recently added two young former SCOTUS clerks to its SG office and you can expect it to be a very active and very good SG office while those two are there.

Yep - the TN SG office hired away from Williams & Connolly one of their rising stars who clerked for 2 conservative SCOTUS justices. My understanding is that she'll be leading the affirmative litigation unit there eg suing the Biden administration. You should understand and be comfortable with the type of work/ideology of whichever office you pursue.

[Anonymous User]

I am currently working at a state SG's office right after finishing clerkships, and I will say your experience will vary wildly depending on the State. Some state SGs take over all important appeals, some just monitor and give advice while spending most of their time on amicus briefs and the REALLY critical cases, which are not many. If your office is the former, it's great experience, if the latter, it could get very academic and not very useful for your career.

Any thoughts on which SSG offices are good/bad? In particular, know anything about TN, ID, or GA?

TN has had a long-time SG, but that office has younger lawyers who function more like most states' solicitors general. TN recently added two young former SCOTUS clerks to its SG office and you can expect it to be a very active and very good SG office while those two are there.

Yep - the TN SG office hired away from Williams & Connolly one of their rising stars who clerked for 2 conservative SCOTUS justices. My understanding is that she'll be leading the affirmative litigation unit there eg suing the Biden administration. You should understand and be comfortable with the type of work/ideology of whichever office you pursue.

Hm, okay. Theoretically, are you competitive for an office like that if you’re HYS fedsoc but no SCOTUS/feeder clerkship? Also, do local ties help?

[Anonymous User]

I am currently working at a state SG's office right after finishing clerkships, and I will say your experience will vary wildly depending on the State. Some state SGs take over all important appeals, some just monitor and give advice while spending most of their time on amicus briefs and the REALLY critical cases, which are not many. If your office is the former, it's great experience, if the latter, it could get very academic and not very useful for your career.

Any thoughts on which SSG offices are good/bad? In particular, know anything about TN, ID, or GA?

TN has had a long-time SG, but that office has younger lawyers who function more like most states' solicitors general. TN recently added two young former SCOTUS clerks to its SG office and you can expect it to be a very active and very good SG office while those two are there.

Yep - the TN SG office hired away from Williams & Connolly one of their rising stars who clerked for 2 conservative SCOTUS justices. My understanding is that she'll be leading the affirmative litigation unit there eg suing the Biden administration. You should understand and be comfortable with the type of work/ideology of whichever office you pursue.

Hm, okay. Theoretically, are you competitive for an office like that if you’re HYS fedsoc but no SCOTUS/feeder clerkship? Also, do local ties help?

Hard for anyone but the hiring committee to know; however, if it's helpful, many of the conservative summers and early career associates at W&C had at least semi-feeder clerkships. I think it's fair to assume they'll have similar standards at TN SG. Regardless, I think if you're conservative and have local ties you should shoot your shot.

[Anonymous User]

I am currently working at a state SG's office right after finishing clerkships, and I will say your experience will vary wildly depending on the State. Some state SGs take over all important appeals, some just monitor and give advice while spending most of their time on amicus briefs and the REALLY critical cases, which are not many. If your office is the former, it's great experience, if the latter, it could get very academic and not very useful for your career.

Any thoughts on which SSG offices are good/bad? In particular, know anything about TN, ID, or GA?

TN has had a long-time SG, but that office has younger lawyers who function more like most states' solicitors general. TN recently added two young former SCOTUS clerks to its SG office and you can expect it to be a very active and very good SG office while those two are there.

Yep - the TN SG office hired away from Williams & Connolly one of their rising stars who clerked for 2 conservative SCOTUS justices. My understanding is that she'll be leading the affirmative litigation unit there eg suing the Biden administration. You should understand and be comfortable with the type of work/ideology of whichever office you pursue.

Hm, okay. Theoretically, are you competitive for an office like that if you’re HYS fedsoc but no SCOTUS/feeder clerkship? Also, do local ties help?

Hard for anyone but the hiring committee to know; however, if it's helpful, many of the conservative summers and early career associates at W&C had at least semi-feeder clerkships. I think it's fair to assume they'll have similar standards at TN SG. Regardless, I think if you're conservative and have local ties you should shoot your shot.

Looked through the linkedins of some TN ASGs. Weird mix--some just with SCOTN clerkships, some with feeders, some without anything. Most weren't exactly the most preftigious backgrounds, but definitely some were. As attractive as Nashville is, how many quasi-conservative superstar lawyers are going there over Texas or Florida?

[Anonymous User]

I am currently working at a state SG's office right after finishing clerkships, and I will say your experience will vary wildly depending on the State. Some state SGs take over all important appeals, some just monitor and give advice while spending most of their time on amicus briefs and the REALLY critical cases, which are not many. If your office is the former, it's great experience, if the latter, it could get very academic and not very useful for your career.

Any thoughts on which SSG offices are good/bad? In particular, know anything about TN, ID, or GA?

TN has had a long-time SG, but that office has younger lawyers who function more like most states' solicitors general. TN recently added two young former SCOTUS clerks to its SG office and you can expect it to be a very active and very good SG office while those two are there.

Yep - the TN SG office hired away from Williams & Connolly one of their rising stars who clerked for 2 conservative SCOTUS justices. My understanding is that she'll be leading the affirmative litigation unit there eg suing the Biden administration. You should understand and be comfortable with the type of work/ideology of whichever office you pursue.

Hm, okay. Theoretically, are you competitive for an office like that if you’re HYS fedsoc but no SCOTUS/feeder clerkship? Also, do local ties help?

Hard for anyone but the hiring committee to know; however, if it's helpful, many of the conservative summers and early career associates at W&C had at least semi-feeder clerkships. I think it's fair to assume they'll have similar standards at TN SG. Regardless, I think if you're conservative and have local ties you should shoot your shot.

Looked through the linkedins of some TN ASGs. Weird mix--some just with SCOTN clerkships, some with feeders, some without anything. Most weren't exactly the most preftigious backgrounds, but definitely some were. As attractive as Nashville is, how many quasi-conservative superstar lawyers are going there over Texas or Florida?

I think that's valid generally speaking for the TN OSG office for how it's currently composed, but 2 points. 1) State SG offices are a relatively new thing. The bar for them is only going to raise across all SSG offices. 2) In regards to Texas or Florida, are they offering post-grad fellowships? Maybe, I don't know. And even if they do have them, they usually only hire one person. I know of a few states offering this type of fellowship and they have all hired people with SCOTUS level credentials. It's incredibly competitive.

Regardless, I think you should apply. Especially if you have local ties.

[Anonymous User]

What about the AZ SG office? And the DC SG office?

[Anonymous User]

I did one year at a state SG office between two clerkships. (This was at a state SG office that had a one-year fellowship.) Afterwards, I transitioned into a top appellate practice group in DC before moving into an appellate role at DOJ.

I'm very happy to have done the year at the state SG office. Contrary to some other comments in the thread, I did have the opportunity to do my first couple oral arguments, as well as significant substantive briefing experience (in criminal and civil matters, including high-profile matters). Having this experience also seemed very beneficial when I started at my firm post-second-clerkship, as I had more briefing and argument experience than any other associate at my seniority level. This led to very good appellate opportunities at the firm, followed by an opportunity to transition to DOJ.

Certainly there are tradeoffs, particularly financial. But if going to biglaw after the clerkship is a pretty sure thing, you'll be able to pay off your loans and start building your financial nest egg when you get there, and you may have enhanced career prospects from that trade. But I do think that depends a fair amount on the experience you get at the state SG's office and how you then pitch it to the firm afterwards.

What SG office did you do the fellowship at?