Wachtell lateral? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Junior associate here. I’ve come to really like biglaw and wanna stay long term. Any chance of lateraling to WLRK? Would it be worth it?

For context have top honors from T6 but no law review.

[Anonymous User]

Junior associate here. I’ve come to really like biglaw and wanna stay long term. Any chance of lateraling to WLRK? Would it be worth it?

For context have top honors from T6 but no law review.

Not in M&A or litigation. They have taken laterals in finance and executive compensation in the past, but it's not exactly common.

[Anonymous User]

A few years ago, they hired an M&A lateral from Skadden.

But it's the exception and not the norm.

[Anonymous User]

A few years ago, they hired an M&A lateral from Skadden.

But it's the exception and not the norm.

they have hired a handful from S&C over the last several years as well

[Anonymous User]

Junior associate here. I’ve come to really like biglaw and wanna stay long term. Any chance of lateraling to WLRK? Would it be worth it?

For context have top honors from T6 but no law review.

I think they might actually be less snobby about grades/law review after a few years of practice? Just looking at the recent non-lit laterals, it doesn't seem like anyone is, e.g., HLS magna/CLS RBG/Chicago coif. More like cum laude or Stone+upper year Kent level of achievement in law school (still very driven ppl, of course!) and no one is law review. Though I imagine T6 law review would just be another gold star in your favor--a prof at my T6 said that corporate students who choose to do law review signal an "idiotic" willingness to grind for literally no marginal benefit lol. maybe wlrk likes that...

problem is, idk how you'd even apply. IIRC, older threads mentioned something about recruiters reaching out to candidates, not the other way around?

[Anonymous User]

Junior associate here. I’ve come to really like biglaw and wanna stay long term. Any chance of lateraling to WLRK? Would it be worth it?

For context have top honors from T6 but no law review.

I think they might actually be less snobby about grades/law review after a few years of practice? Just looking at the recent non-lit laterals, it doesn't seem like anyone is, e.g., HLS magna/CLS RBG/Chicago coif. More like cum laude or Stone+upper year Kent level of achievement in law school (still very driven ppl, of course!) and no one is law review. Though I imagine T6 law review would just be another gold star in your favor--a prof at my T6 said that corporate students who choose to do law review signal an "idiotic" willingness to grind for literally no marginal benefit lol. maybe wlrk likes that...

problem is, idk how you'd even apply. IIRC, older threads mentioned something about recruiters reaching out to candidates, not the other way around?

I think mostly it is thru recruiting. Was mostly curious because of the money lol.

But I actually really like biglaw and wanna stick it out to partner so not sure it would be worth it. Like my firm currently

[Anonymous User]

I know of associate laterals to WLRK in corporate/M&A and litigation. It’s rare to lateral in but seems more doable than ever before. For example, they look like they need more debt finance people.

[Anonymous User]

I know of associate laterals to WLRK in corporate/M&A and litigation. It’s rare to lateral in but seems more doable than ever before. For example, they look like they need more debt finance people.

Thanks. I assume it's all at the whim of whether a recruiter reaches out?

[Anonymous User]

I know of associate laterals to WLRK in corporate/M&A and litigation. It’s rare to lateral in but seems more doable than ever before. For example, they look like they need more debt finance people.

Thanks. I assume it's all at the whim of whether a recruiter reaches out?

Largely or connections/referrals.

[Anonymous User]

In lit, you can clerk and then apply in. I wouldn't count on making partner at Wachtell, though. It makes only a few partners a year and expectations are sky high.

[Anonymous User]

I’m in lit and got a lateral recruiting call from them a couple years ago. I ignored it because I know for a fact that their lit associates bill about 4000 hours per year. The per-hour pay is worse than my current job. So to your “is it worth it” question: I say no.

The culture is also authoritarian and spooky.

[Anonymous User]

I’m in lit and got a lateral recruiting call from them a couple years ago. I ignored it because I know for a fact that their lit associates bill about 4000 hours per year. The per-hour pay is worse than my current job. So to your “is it worth it” question: I say no.

The culture is also authoritarian and spooky.

They do not bill anything remotely resembling 4000 hours per year, nor is the per-hour pay worse than market biglaw. However, I agree the culture is a little authoritarian and spooky.

[Anonymous User]

I’m in lit and got a lateral recruiting call from them a couple years ago. I ignored it because I know for a fact that their lit associates bill about 4000 hours per year. The per-hour pay is worse than my current job. So to your “is it worth it” question: I say no.

The culture is also authoritarian and spooky.

They do not bill anything remotely resembling 4000 hours per year, nor is the per-hour pay worse than market biglaw. However, I agree the culture is a little authoritarian and spooky.

Lol. Fair enough. The 4000 hour number comes directly from multiple of their associates, though. Maybe it's not the norm or the average, but it's definitely not rare either. I'm reasonably confident that the average is well over 3000. What do you think it is?

[Anonymous User]

I’m in lit and got a lateral recruiting call from them a couple years ago. I ignored it because I know for a fact that their lit associates bill about 4000 hours per year. The per-hour pay is worse than my current job. So to your “is it worth it” question: I say no.

The culture is also authoritarian and spooky.

They do not bill anything remotely resembling 4000 hours per year, nor is the per-hour pay worse than market biglaw. However, I agree the culture is a little authoritarian and spooky.

Lol. Fair enough. The 4000 hour number comes directly from multiple of their associates, though. Maybe it's not the norm or the average, but it's definitely not rare either. I'm reasonably confident that the average is well over 3000. What do you think it is?

I think people tend to over-exaggerate how much they work -- there is no way someone is actually billing 4000 hours a year. Even if you work every single week of the year, that comes out to nearly 80 billable hours every week, which doesn't seem remotely possible. Also, even if they are billing double the average BL associate, Wachtell bonuses have been known to be as high as their base salary, which means they are very very well compensated, even by BL terms.

If someone told you that they are billing 4000 hours a year and you took them at face value, then idk what to say - like even back of the napkin math makes that amount absolutely insane.

[Anonymous User]

I’m in lit and got a lateral recruiting call from them a couple years ago. I ignored it because I know for a fact that their lit associates bill about 4000 hours per year. The per-hour pay is worse than my current job. So to your “is it worth it” question: I say no.

The culture is also authoritarian and spooky.

Can anybody expand on "spooky"?

[Anonymous User]

I’m in lit and got a lateral recruiting call from them a couple years ago. I ignored it because I know for a fact that their lit associates bill about 4000 hours per year. The per-hour pay is worse than my current job. So to your “is it worth it” question: I say no.

The culture is also authoritarian and spooky.

They do not bill anything remotely resembling 4000 hours per year, nor is the per-hour pay worse than market biglaw. However, I agree the culture is a little authoritarian and spooky.

Lol. Fair enough. The 4000 hour number comes directly from multiple of their associates, though. Maybe it's not the norm or the average, but it's definitely not rare either. I'm reasonably confident that the average is well over 3000. What do you think it is?

I understand the average to be somewhere in the high 2000s, with many associates in low 3000s. In other words, I'd expect to work somewhere in the 2700-3200 range, with corporate lawyers usually towards the higher end and litigators usually towards the lower end. Those are still long hours that well exceed the norm in biglaw. To put things in perspective, though, 4000 hours billed means would mean billing 75 hours a week without taking even a week's vacation. That equates to working something like 90-100 hours a week with no break. No one is capable of that.

As for the other poster's question about culture, Wachtell has a reputation for being controlling. Pre-COVID it implemented a tracking program that displayed when associates stepped out of the office, even for brief appointments. It has long had (and continues to have) high face time requirements. It doesn't divulge much information about firm financials, lateral hiring, or partnership prospects either. That is different from firms like Susman NY with equally crushing hours but significant transparency and personal and professional flexibility.

[Anonymous User]

What’s your source for those hours estimates? I heard directly from two Wachtell associates that 4000 is common, 3000 is floor, average can’t be much lower than 3500. They were terrified to speak on the subject. The firm goes to extraordinary lengths to conceal this information.

[Anonymous User]

What’s your source for those hours estimates? I heard directly from two Wachtell associates that 4000 is common, 3000 is floor, average can’t be much lower than 3500. They were terrified to speak on the subject. The firm goes to extraordinary lengths to conceal this information.

Perhaps they're mixing up hours worked with hours billed. Even then, there must be some fudging going on. I would be shocked if a single attorney in the firm has ever billed 4,000 hours. (More generally, I doubt that any attorney in any firm has ever ethically billed 4,000 hours.) No one doubts Wachtell lawyers work their tails off but it's a law firm, not a torture chamber.

[throwawayt14]

What’s your source for those hours estimates? I heard directly from two Wachtell associates that 4000 is common, 3000 is floor, average can’t be much lower than 3500. They were terrified to speak on the subject. The firm goes to extraordinary lengths to conceal this information.

Perhaps they're mixing up hours worked with hours billed. Even then, there must be some fudging going on. I would be shocked if a single attorney in the firm has ever billed 4,000 hours. (More generally, I doubt that any attorney in any firm has ever ethically billed 4,000 hours.) No one doubts Wachtell lawyers work their tails off but it's a law firm, not a torture chamber.

You can see how much Wachtell lawyers bill. By my rough count, at least a few of the associates were on pace for close to 5000 hours billed.

https://abovethelaw.com/uploads/2023/07 ... htell-.pdf

[Anonymous User]

What’s your source for those hours estimates? I heard directly from two Wachtell associates that 4000 is common, 3000 is floor, average can’t be much lower than 3500. They were terrified to speak on the subject. The firm goes to extraordinary lengths to conceal this information.

Perhaps they're mixing up hours worked with hours billed. Even then, there must be some fudging going on. I would be shocked if a single attorney in the firm has ever billed 4,000 hours. (More generally, I doubt that any attorney in any firm has ever ethically billed 4,000 hours.) No one doubts Wachtell lawyers work their tails off but it's a law firm, not a torture chamber.

You can see how much Wachtell lawyers bill. By my rough count, at least a few of the associates were on pace for close to 5000 hours billed.

https://abovethelaw.com/uploads/2023/07 ... htell-.pdf

This is great. One *partner* hit 900 hours in 10 weeks, including 450 in August. All block billed. And all for a case that settled. I feel bad for his family.

[Anonymous User]

What’s your source for those hours estimates? I heard directly from two Wachtell associates that 4000 is common, 3000 is floor, average can’t be much lower than 3500. They were terrified to speak on the subject. The firm goes to extraordinary lengths to conceal this information.

Perhaps they're mixing up hours worked with hours billed. Even then, there must be some fudging going on. I would be shocked if a single attorney in the firm has ever billed 4,000 hours. (More generally, I doubt that any attorney in any firm has ever ethically billed 4,000 hours.) No one doubts Wachtell lawyers work their tails off but it's a law firm, not a torture chamber.

You can see how much Wachtell lawyers bill. By my rough count, at least a few of the associates were on pace for close to 5000 hours billed.

https://abovethelaw.com/uploads/2023/07 ... htell-.pdf

I'm not seeing what you're seeing. Some associates have 300-400 hour months but no one keeps that pace up for anywhere near a full year. Also, without accusing anyone of anything... there's a reason most clients don't approve of block billing. As I said, I doubt that any attorney in any firm has ever ethically billed 4,000 hours. I'm certain that no attorney in any firm has ever ethically billed 5,000 hours.

[Anonymous User]

What’s your source for those hours estimates? I heard directly from two Wachtell associates that 4000 is common, 3000 is floor, average can’t be much lower than 3500. They were terrified to speak on the subject. The firm goes to extraordinary lengths to conceal this information.

Perhaps they're mixing up hours worked with hours billed. Even then, there must be some fudging going on. I would be shocked if a single attorney in the firm has ever billed 4,000 hours. (More generally, I doubt that any attorney in any firm has ever ethically billed 4,000 hours.) No one doubts Wachtell lawyers work their tails off but it's a law firm, not a torture chamber.

This is a common misconception. It actually is a torture chamber.

[Anonymous User]

What’s your source for those hours estimates? I heard directly from two Wachtell associates that 4000 is common, 3000 is floor, average can’t be much lower than 3500. They were terrified to speak on the subject. The firm goes to extraordinary lengths to conceal this information.

Perhaps they're mixing up hours worked with hours billed. Even then, there must be some fudging going on. I would be shocked if a single attorney in the firm has ever billed 4,000 hours. (More generally, I doubt that any attorney in any firm has ever ethically billed 4,000 hours.) No one doubts Wachtell lawyers work their tails off but it's a law firm, not a torture chamber.

You can see how much Wachtell lawyers bill. By my rough count, at least a few of the associates were on pace for close to 5000 hours billed.

https://abovethelaw.com/uploads/2023/07 ... htell-.pdf

I'm not seeing what you're seeing. Some associates have 300-400 hour months but no one keeps that pace up for anywhere near a full year. Also, without accusing anyone of anything... there's a reason most clients don't approve of block billing. As I said, I doubt that any attorney in any firm has ever ethically billed 4,000 hours. I'm certain that no attorney in any firm has ever ethically billed 5,000 hours.

More like: *Many* associates were billing *400-500* hour months *on a single matter*. Your assumption that they get a big break after that might be true for other firms, but it is not true at Wachtell. And again, I know straight from the horse's mouth that billing 4,000 hours in a year is common at Wachtell. I'm not taking a position as to whether those hours are or are not "ethically" billed. But they are billed.

[Anonymous User]

What’s your source for those hours estimates? I heard directly from two Wachtell associates that 4000 is common, 3000 is floor, average can’t be much lower than 3500. They were terrified to speak on the subject. The firm goes to extraordinary lengths to conceal this information.

Perhaps they're mixing up hours worked with hours billed. Even then, there must be some fudging going on. I would be shocked if a single attorney in the firm has ever billed 4,000 hours. (More generally, I doubt that any attorney in any firm has ever ethically billed 4,000 hours.) No one doubts Wachtell lawyers work their tails off but it's a law firm, not a torture chamber.

You can see how much Wachtell lawyers bill. By my rough count, at least a few of the associates were on pace for close to 5000 hours billed.

https://abovethelaw.com/uploads/2023/07 ... htell-.pdf

I'm not seeing what you're seeing. Some associates have 300-400 hour months but no one keeps that pace up for anywhere near a full year. Also, without accusing anyone of anything... there's a reason most clients don't approve of block billing. As I said, I doubt that any attorney in any firm has ever ethically billed 4,000 hours. I'm certain that no attorney in any firm has ever ethically billed 5,000 hours.

Look at Ry. McL. 414 hours over 6/16-7/31 (ex. 3) and 443 hours for 8/1-8/30 (ex. 4; all block billed in both cases). Not an associate. That's a 4,170 hours/year pace. Ale. Sad. is at a similar pace.

[Anonymous User]

What’s your source for those hours estimates? I heard directly from two Wachtell associates that 4000 is common, 3000 is floor, average can’t be much lower than 3500. They were terrified to speak on the subject. The firm goes to extraordinary lengths to conceal this information.

Perhaps they're mixing up hours worked with hours billed. Even then, there must be some fudging going on. I would be shocked if a single attorney in the firm has ever billed 4,000 hours. (More generally, I doubt that any attorney in any firm has ever ethically billed 4,000 hours.) No one doubts Wachtell lawyers work their tails off but it's a law firm, not a torture chamber.

You can see how much Wachtell lawyers bill. By my rough count, at least a few of the associates were on pace for close to 5000 hours billed.

https://abovethelaw.com/uploads/2023/07 ... htell-.pdf

I'm not seeing what you're seeing. Some associates have 300-400 hour months but no one keeps that pace up for anywhere near a full year. Also, without accusing anyone of anything... there's a reason most clients don't approve of block billing. As I said, I doubt that any attorney in any firm has ever ethically billed 4,000 hours. I'm certain that no attorney in any firm has ever ethically billed 5,000 hours.

Look at Ry. McL. 414 hours over 6/16-7/31 (ex. 3) and 443 hours for 8/1-8/30 (ex. 4; all block billed in both cases). Not an associate. That's a 4,170 hours/year pace. Ale. Sad. is at a similar pace.

This is why Wachtell has the worst per-hour pay in Big Law. Far below market.