Cooper & Kirk vs Consovoy McCarthy vs Clement & Murphy Forum

[Anonymous User]

So much for a persecution "complex."

There was study in the Harvard Business review in 2020 or so showing that conservatives in general could give a rats ass about the political leanings of the businesses they patronize, but liberals on the other hand actively avoid conservative businesses. This thread is sort of proving that point.

Anheuser-Busch & Target would like a word

[Dr Tobias Funke]

Lol not the previous poster but if you think diversity programming is as big a focus at DPW as conservatism is at Consovoy, then the NLGers are right about the intellects of fedsoc diehards

That's not my point at all. I merely said this is a thread about comparing conservative firms, so posting about how shitty conservatives are is off topic and pointless. It would be just as pointless to shit on DPW or any other middle of the line firm for diversity initiatives for someone who seems interested in them (or just neutral).

So clueless to use PW/DPW for this example and not a Gupta Wessler or a Kaplan Hecker. Conservative persecution complex is real. If you’re too conservative to fit in with apolitical types as you defend corporate interests at a traditional big law firm then that’s on you

Sure, those are fine examples, too. Don't you agree it would be pointless to rail on liberals on a thread asking Gupta Wessler vs. Kaplan Hecker?

lol how would you rail on liberals? The goddamn liberals at this firm want women to have control over their own bodies! These libtards want to raise taxes on the wealthy! These terrible people want healthcare for everyone!

I completely agree with you politically, but this is a dumb comment to make in a thread for people who are looking for/giving advice on politically conservative firms, who will happily tell you the reasons they have for railing on liberals, if they want to derail the thread further.

This board is basically completely dead and I'm bored, so why not?

[dyemond]

Lol not the previous poster but if you think diversity programming is as big a focus at DPW as conservatism is at Consovoy, then the NLGers are right about the intellects of fedsoc diehards

That's not my point at all. I merely said this is a thread about comparing conservative firms, so posting about how shitty conservatives are is off topic and pointless. It would be just as pointless to shit on DPW or any other middle of the line firm for diversity initiatives for someone who seems interested in them (or just neutral).

So clueless to use PW/DPW for this example and not a Gupta Wessler or a Kaplan Hecker. Conservative persecution complex is real. If you’re too conservative to fit in with apolitical types as you defend corporate interests at a traditional big law firm then that’s on you

Sure, those are fine examples, too. Don't you agree it would be pointless to rail on liberals on a thread asking Gupta Wessler vs. Kaplan Hecker?

lol how would you rail on liberals? The goddamn liberals at this firm want women to have control over their own bodies! These libtards want to raise taxes on the wealthy! These terrible people want healthcare for everyone!

I completely agree with you politically, but this is a dumb comment to make in a thread for people who are looking for/giving advice on politically conservative firms, who will happily tell you the reasons they have for railing on liberals, if they want to derail the thread further.

This board is basically completely dead and I'm bored, so why not?

Because you look and sound like an idiot. Saying this as someone who probably holds views similar to yours.

[nealric]

Let's keep this on topic, shall we? It's fine to mention the politics of a firm to the extent it's relevant to someone wanting to work for them, but getting into a debate about the politics will cause this thread to get sent to off topic, which is a shame for people who might actually be interested in working for one of these firms.

Also, anon is to be used for discussing matters that might be personally sensitive. Use to attack other posters or get into off-topic rants will cause outing or banning for repeat offenders.

The forum may be mostly dead, but what's left on life support is here because people can occasionally find useful information.

[ranger51]

Getting this back on track. How was Lehotsky Keller figure into the conservative boutique equation? Will Clement & Murphy be the most selective going forward?

[Anonymous User]

Getting this back on track. How was Lehotsky Keller figure into the conservative boutique equation? Will Clement & Murphy be the most selective going forward?

+1 to this question. I also wonder whether Clement & Murphy's focus on appellate work will lead to them being more credential-focused than the other boutiques?

For what it's worth, I've heard that C&M pays market salaries (though below market bonuses) to all associates, whereas Consovoy pays below market. Not sure on C&K or Lehotsky

[Anonymous User]

Getting this back on track. How was Lehotsky Keller figure into the conservative boutique equation? Will Clement & Murphy be the most selective going forward?

It's an imprecise metric, but...

Cooper & Kirk lists 20 lawyers on its website, 8 of whom have clerked at SCOTUS, for a cool 40%.
Consovoy McCarthy lists 21 current lawyers, 6 of whom are former SCOTUS clerks, good for 28.6%.
Clement & Murphy lists 14 lawyers, 6 of which are former SCOTUS clerks, which translates to 42.9%.
Lehotsky Keller Cohn lists 15 lawyers, 5 of whom are former SCOTUS clerks, for 33.3%.

Obviously, all are small shops filled with well-credentialed people -- even the non-SCOTUS lawyers here have impressive clerkships and, more importantly, seem to churn out impressive work product. Also, I know for a fact that multiple of these firms have current associates who have been hired as SCOTUS clerks for future terms.

[Anonymous User]

Getting this back on track. How was Lehotsky Keller figure into the conservative boutique equation? Will Clement & Murphy be the most selective going forward?

+1 to this question. I also wonder whether Clement & Murphy's focus on appellate work will lead to them being more credential-focused than the other boutiques?

For what it's worth, I've heard that C&M pays market salaries (though below market bonuses) to all associates, whereas Consovoy pays below market. Not sure on C&K or Lehotsky

I know many of the lawyers at each, and have considered joining one or more. Here's my breakdown:

On the business-conservative to social-conservative spectrum, the firms are Lehotsky Keller -> C&K/C&M (I would put them in that order, but they seem equivalent to me) -> -> Consovoy. All of them seem to have some mix of those cases, but Lehotsky Keller has a higher concentration of former Chamber of Commerce lawyers and stays away from many of the issues that are the bread and butter of Consovoy. C&K and C&M are somewhere in between, but I would put them closer to Lehotsky Keller than to Consovoy.

C&K pays market salaries and market bonuses as well (including signing bonuses for SCOTUS clerks). Consovoy is below market on salaries, but evidently bonuses can be substantial for the harder working assocites. My understanding is that Lehotsky Keller was at least initially below market, but I'm not 100% sure where they are now.

[Anonymous User]

Somewhat random anecdote, but I went to lunch with Chuck Cooper right before I started law school (a long time ago). It was one of those second-order connections where someone suggested he'd be great to talk to about legal careers. I had no idea he was kind of a big deal, but did know he was a former SCOTUS clerk. In my fantasy 0L world, I thought I might have a shot at a SCOTUS clerkship someday and wanted to pick his brain

Anyhow, setting aside the firm itself or politics, he did seem like a pretty standup guy taking time out of his schedule to talk to a nobody kid. He even paid for lunch (at a nice steakhouse).

[Anonymous User]

Getting this back on track. How was Lehotsky Keller figure into the conservative boutique equation? Will Clement & Murphy be the most selective going forward?

+1 to this question. I also wonder whether Clement & Murphy's focus on appellate work will lead to them being more credential-focused than the other boutiques?

For what it's worth, I've heard that C&M pays market salaries (though below market bonuses) to all associates, whereas Consovoy pays below market. Not sure on C&K or Lehotsky

I know many of the lawyers at each, and have considered joining one or more. Here's my breakdown:

On the business-conservative to social-conservative spectrum, the firms are Lehotsky Keller -> C&K/C&M (I would put them in that order, but they seem equivalent to me) -> -> Consovoy. All of them seem to have some mix of those cases, but Lehotsky Keller has a higher concentration of former Chamber of Commerce lawyers and stays away from many of the issues that are the bread and butter of Consovoy. C&K and C&M are somewhere in between, but I would put them closer to Lehotsky Keller than to Consovoy.

C&K pays market salaries and market bonuses as well (including signing bonuses for SCOTUS clerks). Consovoy is below market on salaries, but evidently bonuses can be substantial for the harder working assocites. My understanding is that Lehotsky Keller was at least initially below market, but I'm not 100% sure where they are now.

I'm in a somewhat similar position to this poster, though I'm not an ideological fit so did not apply (and thus don't have the same insight re salary. I totally agree about the Chamber of Commerce Conservatism to Culture Conservatism spectrum. Having worked as co-counsel with C&K and Clement & Murphy (albeit when C & M were at Kirkland), I was very impressed with them. Consovoy McCarthy is hiring some very talented (and very conservative) lawyers with, as other have noted, great credentials. I know little about Lehotsky Keller, but I imagine they get great clients (I believe--although I may be mistaken--that they represented Fox (along with C&M) in the Dominion litigation).

If you're a young conservative lawyer, and especially if you're into appellate/law-heavy work, I'd go and read briefs the firms have filed and see what you think. You may find you like some shop's work better than another's.

[Anonymous User]

Getting this back on track. How was Lehotsky Keller figure into the conservative boutique equation? Will Clement & Murphy be the most selective going forward?

+1 to this question. I also wonder whether Clement & Murphy's focus on appellate work will lead to them being more credential-focused than the other boutiques?

For what it's worth, I've heard that C&M pays market salaries (though below market bonuses) to all associates, whereas Consovoy pays below market. Not sure on C&K or Lehotsky

I know many of the lawyers at each, and have considered joining one or more. Here's my breakdown:

On the business-conservative to social-conservative spectrum, the firms are Lehotsky Keller -> C&K/C&M (I would put them in that order, but they seem equivalent to me) -> -> Consovoy. All of them seem to have some mix of those cases, but Lehotsky Keller has a higher concentration of former Chamber of Commerce lawyers and stays away from many of the issues that are the bread and butter of Consovoy. C&K and C&M are somewhere in between, but I would put them closer to Lehotsky Keller than to Consovoy.

C&K pays market salaries and market bonuses as well (including signing bonuses for SCOTUS clerks). Consovoy is below market on salaries, but evidently bonuses can be substantial for the harder working assocites. My understanding is that Lehotsky Keller was at least initially below market, but I'm not 100% sure where they are now.

I'm in a somewhat similar position to this poster, though I'm not an ideological fit so did not apply (and thus don't have the same insight re salary. I totally agree about the Chamber of Commerce Conservatism to Culture Conservatism spectrum. Having worked as co-counsel with C&K and Clement & Murphy (albeit when C & M were at Kirkland), I was very impressed with them. Consovoy McCarthy is hiring some very talented (and very conservative) lawyers with, as other have noted, great credentials. I know little about Lehotsky Keller, but I imagine they get great clients (I believe--although I may be mistaken--that they represented Fox (along with C&M) in the Dominion litigation).

If you're a young conservative lawyer, and especially if you're into appellate/law-heavy work, I'd go and read briefs the firms have filed and see what you think. You may find you like some shop's work better than another's.

Which firm gives young lawyers the most experience if you want to handle appeals? Also, is Clement and Murphy even actively hiring COA clerks? The firm has like 10 lawyers and my understanding was that almost all of them were from Kirkland.

[Anonymous User]

Glad to see people on TLS are still more than happy to give professional advice to future unqualified judges and lawyers intent on stripping women and minorities of their rights

[Anonymous User]

Glad to see people on TLS are still more than happy to give professional advice to future unqualified judges and lawyers intent on stripping women and minorities of their rights

Lol. Great use of anon.

To actually answer the question, these are very different firms. Clement & Murphy does mostly non-ideological business appeals. It has some liberal associates (I won't name names but look at the bios and you'll find them). I don't see any reason your typical centrist appellate gunner couldn't work there. C&M pays market salaries but I think they're below market on bonuses.

Cooper & Kirk does more hot-button political work. However, it also has a healthy diet of interesting commercial litigation. One distinguishing feature from C&M is that it also does plaintiff-side work, yielding big paydays for partners during the good years. Believe it or not, C&K also has some liberals. They voluntarily stay away from the political work and no one seems to criticize that choice. Most of its new associates fit the conservative mold, though. Associates work long hours but (unlike the others) receive market pay.

Consovoy McCarthy does nuclear conservative work and little standard business litigation. The work it does do, however, is often quite lucrative for the partnership. Associates make below market but are rewarded with good hours, a short partnership track, and full remote flexibility. Another thing to know is that Consovoy has historically had a pipeline where it sends a top associate each year to Justice Thomas. That will likely survive William Consovoy's death because of the high number of Justice Thomas clerks who still work there.

[Anonymous User]

Consovoy McCarthy does nuclear conservative work and little standard business litigation. The work it does do, however, is often quite lucrative for the partnership. Associates make below market but are rewarded with good hours, a short partnership track, and full remote flexibility. Another thing to know is that Consovoy has historically had a pipeline where it sends a top associate each year to Justice Thomas. That will likely survive William Consovoy's death because of the high number of Justice Thomas clerks who still work there.

In addition to wannabe SCOTUS clerks, Consovoy is also attracting people who already have a SCOTUS clerkship locked down. I count four new post-clerkship associates at Consovoy this fall, and two already have SCOTUS clerkships locked down (one with Gorsuch and one with Kavanaugh).

[Anonymous User]

Consovoy McCarthy does nuclear conservative work and little standard business litigation. The work it does do, however, is often quite lucrative for the partnership. Associates make below market but are rewarded with good hours, a short partnership track, and full remote flexibility. Another thing to know is that Consovoy has historically had a pipeline where it sends a top associate each year to Justice Thomas. That will likely survive William Consovoy's death because of the high number of Justice Thomas clerks who still work there.

In addition to wannabe SCOTUS clerks, Consovoy is also attracting people who already have a SCOTUS clerkship locked down. I count four new post-clerkship associates at Consovoy this fall, and two already have SCOTUS clerkships locked down (one with Gorsuch and one with Kavanaugh).

I've noticed the same. Any idea what the draw is?

[Anonymous User]

Wow looks like they've gone on a hiring spree

Also at least one of their associates just left for SCOTUS

[Anonymous User]

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Consovoy McCarthy does nuclear conservative work and little standard business litigation. The work it does do, however, is often quite lucrative for the partnership. Associates make below market but are rewarded with good hours, a short partnership track, and full remote flexibility. Another thing to know is that Consovoy has historically had a pipeline where it sends a top associate each year to Justice Thomas. That will likely survive William Consovoy's death because of the high number of Justice Thomas clerks who still work there.

In addition to wannabe SCOTUS clerks, Consovoy is also attracting people who already have a SCOTUS clerkship locked down. I count four new post-clerkship associates at Consovoy this fall, and two already have SCOTUS clerkships locked down (one with Gorsuch and one with Kavanaugh).

I've noticed the same. Any idea what the draw is?

It’s one of the only conservative firms in the country. The draw seems obvious to me if you are a real conservative.