Latham NY Forum

[Anonymous User]

[duplicate comment - deleted]

[Anonymous User]

LW SA here.

I referenced that anecdote to point out that a LW recruiter could easily figure out who I am/who others are upon me providing more specific examples of discrimination at Latham (especially since some of this stuff was reported).

As a general note, I never trust people in recruiting/HR, no matter the opportunity. If you think they (including a few at LW) don’t do vindictive things…yeah. I’ll just shake my head and smirk on that one.

As for anon’s comment re: bonuses for poaching, I didn’t refer to that as sketchy behavior — I said that a friend of mine trying to get me to join KE by him blatantly lying about his own experience was sketchy. It isn’t abnormal; it’s very much the norm for such things to happen. And that’s why I’m grateful for online platforms like this one where users anon and otherwise provide data points that provide more comprehensive pictures (and, at times, confirms that people are lying). With respect to discrimination, I wanted to provide a datapoint and help those recruiting for the firm who are diverse to have as many data points as possible in the event that someone is misrepresenting things for their own gain.

LW struggles way more than many (if not most) of its peers to recruit and retain diverse talent, and I stand by my original point that there’s a reason why. Some particularly messed up situations point to that, and many diverse candidates can corroborate that. Simple.

This will be my last post on the matter, but all the best at LW (or wherever it is you log your hours).

Again, not a datapoint; just a vague accusation. And you certainly haven't offered data for the bolded. Here's to hoping one of these other folks can corroborate.

Don't NALP reports show this kind of data? I haven't seen one in years but I could've sworn it did (I doubt they show retention info, though, to your point).

[Anonymous User]

Don't NALP reports show this kind of data? I haven't seen one in years but I could've sworn it did (I doubt they show retention info, though, to your point).

They do, though I don't know how current they are. Latham isn't substantially different from, for example, Kirkland. Which is my point - it's a fact that firms in general have a (diversity) retention problem. I just haven't seen anything that sets Latham apart from peer firms or that suggests Latham has a particularly racist culture/management team.

https://www.nalpdirectory.com/employer_ ... tham%22%7D

https://www.nalpdirectory.com/employer_ ... land%22%7D

[Anonymous User]

Don't NALP reports show this kind of data? I haven't seen one in years but I could've sworn it did (I doubt they show retention info, though, to your point).

They do, though I don't know how current they are. Latham isn't substantially different from, for example, Kirkland. Which is my point - it's a fact that firms in general have a (diversity) retention problem. I just haven't seen anything that sets Latham apart from peer firms or that suggests Latham has a particularly racist culture/management team.

https://www.nalpdirectory.com/employer_ ... tham%22%7D

https://www.nalpdirectory.com/employer_ ... land%22%7D

I will say that KE probably isn’t the best firm to use here since they did quite a number of layoffs and have pretty terrible retention regardless of background. That being said, I have no insight into Latham’s retention rates, so maybe theirs is similarly poor.

Just did some digging to see how other firms compared to Latham and stumbled upon this:

https://lawyersofcolor.org/wp-content/u ... lowres.pdf

IDK what the Latham SA’s racial/ethnic/gender background is, and I don’t want to assume anything. But if they’re Black/African American, then their claim doesn’t seem as far-fetched to me anymore (also *wow* @ GDC).

Kinda off-topic, but anyone know of other publications like these for other demographics and for more recent years?

[Anonymous User]

Don't NALP reports show this kind of data? I haven't seen one in years but I could've sworn it did (I doubt they show retention info, though, to your point).

They do, though I don't know how current they are. Latham isn't substantially different from, for example, Kirkland. Which is my point - it's a fact that firms in general have a (diversity) retention problem. I just haven't seen anything that sets Latham apart from peer firms or that suggests Latham has a particularly racist culture/management team.

https://www.nalpdirectory.com/employer_ ... tham%22%7D

https://www.nalpdirectory.com/employer_ ... land%22%7D

I will say that KE probably isn’t the best firm to use here since they did quite a number of layoffs and have pretty terrible retention regardless of background. That being said, I have no insight into Latham’s retention rates, so maybe theirs is similarly poor.

Just did some digging to see how other firms compared to Latham and stumbled upon this:

https://lawyersofcolor.org/wp-content/u ... lowres.pdf

IDK what the Latham SA’s racial/ethnic/gender background is, and I don’t want to assume anything. But if they’re Black/African American, then their claim doesn’t seem as far-fetched to me anymore (also *wow* @ GDC).

Kinda off-topic, but anyone know of other publications like these for other demographics and for more recent years?

Chambers associate provides law firm statistics by race/latino ethnicity, gender, and sexual preference, divided into associate and partner categories. Unfortunately it’s firm wide so you can’t tell what an office is like for larger firms like Kirkland and Latham. Also, if you can’t find the data you want in these outside publications and really don’t want to be Jackie Robinson, you can look up individual offices and make a tally based on pictures. It’s a crude metric but is probably more accurate than firm reported data because many lawyers will not self report race in firm surveys. For laterals or people who already know which practice area they want, this is probably the only way to figure out if you’ll be the only X in Y firm’s Z practice.

[Anonymous User]

Don't NALP reports show this kind of data? I haven't seen one in years but I could've sworn it did (I doubt they show retention info, though, to your point).

They do, though I don't know how current they are. Latham isn't substantially different from, for example, Kirkland. Which is my point - it's a fact that firms in general have a (diversity) retention problem. I just haven't seen anything that sets Latham apart from peer firms or that suggests Latham has a particularly racist culture/management team.

https://www.nalpdirectory.com/employer_ ... tham%22%7D

https://www.nalpdirectory.com/employer_ ... land%22%7D

I will say that KE probably isn’t the best firm to use here since they did quite a number of layoffs and have pretty terrible retention regardless of background. That being said, I have no insight into Latham’s retention rates, so maybe theirs is similarly poor.

Just did some digging to see how other firms compared to Latham and stumbled upon this:

https://lawyersofcolor.org/wp-content/u ... lowres.pdf

IDK what the Latham SA’s racial/ethnic/gender background is, and I don’t want to assume anything. But if they’re Black/African American, then their claim doesn’t seem as far-fetched to me anymore (also *wow* @ GDC).

Kinda off-topic, but anyone know of other publications like these for other demographics and for more recent years?

Chambers associate provides law firm statistics by race/latino ethnicity, gender, and sexual preference, divided into associate and partner categories. Unfortunately it’s firm wide so you can’t tell what an office is like for larger firms like Kirkland and Latham. Also, if you can’t find the data you want in these outside publications and really don’t want to be Jackie Robinson, you can look up individual offices and make a tally based on pictures. It’s a crude metric but is probably more accurate than firm reported data because many lawyers will not self report race in firm surveys. For laterals or people who already know which practice area they want, this is probably the only way to figure out if you’ll be the only X in Y firm’s Z practice.

Awesome. I didn’t know Chambers had this kind of data. Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

LW SA here.

I referenced that anecdote to point out that a LW recruiter could easily figure out who I am/who others are upon me providing more specific examples of discrimination at Latham (especially since some of this stuff was reported).

As a general note, I never trust people in recruiting/HR, no matter the opportunity. If you think they (including a few at LW) don’t do vindictive things…yeah. I’ll just shake my head and smirk on that one.

As for anon’s comment re: bonuses for poaching, I didn’t refer to that as sketchy behavior — I said that a friend of mine trying to get me to join KE by him blatantly lying about his own experience was sketchy. It isn’t abnormal; it’s very much the norm for such things to happen. And that’s why I’m grateful for online platforms like this one where users anon and otherwise provide data points that provide more comprehensive pictures (and, at times, confirms that people are lying). With respect to discrimination, I wanted to provide a datapoint and help those recruiting for the firm who are diverse to have as many data points as possible in the event that someone is misrepresenting things for their own gain.

LW struggles way more than many (if not most) of its peers to recruit and retain diverse talent, and I stand by my original point that there’s a reason why. Some particularly messed up situations point to that, and many diverse candidates can corroborate that. Simple.

This will be my last post on the matter, but all the best at LW (or wherever it is you log your hours).

Again, not a datapoint; just a vague accusation. And you certainly haven't offered data for the bolded. Here's to hoping one of these other folks can corroborate.

Don't NALP reports show this kind of data? I haven't seen one in years but I could've sworn it did (I doubt they show retention info, though, to your point).

If you want to apply disparate outcome analysis to law firms that's your prerogative and I don't think we need to hash that issue out here. But this thread isn't about Latham having fewer diverse attorneys - it's about allegations of specific instances of racism and/or pervasive hostility toward diverse attorneys. NALP data won't backfill that.

[Anonymous User]

The LW bootlicker is def affiliated with LW. Like why are they going so hard?

[Anonymous User]

The LW bootlicker is def affiliated with LW. Like why are they going so hard?

Thread revival much?

Apparently the standard is now "you must be in bed with the accused for asking real questions and not believing victims" instead of "that's a very serious and vague allegation can you please explain." So much for innocent until proven guilty.

Anyway, I think I'm the one you're referring to and I most definitely am not affiliated with LW. I have considered a lateral move, which is why I'm actually interested in real answers (and why I'm anon). To date, nobody has clarified what form this apparent racism comes in.

[Anonymous User]

LW associate here who is a minority. Not going to bother trying to address the lofty and non-substantive complaints but my experience at Latham has been perfectly fine.

Latham culture compared to peer firms simply is pretty great, but at the end of the day it’s big law. Can we do better on the diversity front and empowering minorities? Absolutely, so can every firm. That said, Latham tries and does a fairly good job from my perspective of at least showing that folks care, and I have heard actual horror stories from other firms mentioned here. I can’t even mention my KE interview experience from a few years ago given how many times I’ve told that ridiculous story to people—only made worse by the same interview who made very odd comments being the one to call and offer the diversity scholarship… but I have the wherewithal to understand that firms are large institutions with a variety of characters you might run into. Without getting into further details to not dox myself, KE is notorious for nothing more than lip service and throwing heaps and heaps of cash at diverse candidates and programs which I suppose has been successful in at least branding them better.

I think Latham genuinely allowed bad apples to spoil the bunch on diversity recruiting for the last few summers and should have cut some loose rather than bending over backwards for frankly absurd accommodations that only further fed into the issue.

All that to say, Latham is fine and it sounds like someone just has a bone to pick.

[Anonymous User]

LW associate here who is a minority. Not going to bother trying to address the lofty and non-substantive complaints but my experience at Latham has been perfectly fine.

Latham culture compared to peer firms simply is pretty great, but at the end of the day it’s big law. Can we do better on the diversity front and empowering minorities? Absolutely, so can every firm. That said, Latham tries and does a fairly good job from my perspective of at least showing that folks care, and I have heard actual horror stories from other firms mentioned here. I can’t even mention my KE interview experience from a few years ago given how many times I’ve told that ridiculous story to people—only made worse by the same interview who made very odd comments being the one to call and offer the diversity scholarship… but I have the wherewithal to understand that firms are large institutions with a variety of characters you might run into. Without getting into further details to not dox myself, KE is notorious for nothing more than lip service and throwing heaps and heaps of cash at diverse candidates and programs which I suppose has been successful in at least branding them better.

I think Latham genuinely allowed bad apples to spoil the bunch on diversity recruiting for the last few summers and should have cut some loose rather than bending over backwards for frankly absurd accommodations that only further fed into the issue.

All that to say, Latham is fine and it sounds like someone just has a bone to pick.

I appreciate you sharing your experience so far at LW. If you’re willing to share, what is your gender and racial/ethnic background? I find that, across firms, different minorities face different challenges. So I’m trying to learn as much as I can from someone with a similar background as mine (dark-skinned Latina).

I’m also considering a lateral move, but I admit I share a lot of concerns based on what I’ve heard directly from a few Latino/a associates there (including the weird diversity dinner thing). These issues may not be unique to Latham, but I’m happy with my current firm when it comes to this matter (at least, in my experience) and don’t want to risk giving up this level of comfort.