Kirkland Megathread Forum

[Anonymous User]

It would be strange for KE to be off market like this. Every other firm in Chicago gives external offices to first years.

KE also has (i) 700 or so attorneys in Chicago these days, (ii) probably one of the highest associate (including 7th/8th year NEPs) to share partner ratios in the city, and (iii) probably just moved into the most expensive office space in the city, so it's not particularly surprising that they are off-market in this regard.

They have a high headcount, but they also make a lot of money, both in absolute terms and per capita. If it were 7 100-attorney offices in a trenchcoat, they'd be expected to provide window offices for everyone. And guess what, that's what every 100 attorney office in town does. So yeah, it's surprising that they're being cheap.

But anyway. Anyone have an answer to my question? Until what year are you in internal offices? This is relevant to me personally.

They are being cheap, to be sure, but the floor space requirements of a 700 attorney firm are going to be very unique compared to seven 100 attorney firms. Almost no other employer is going to need/want that much trophy class office space with 700 exterior offices. But a lot of professional services firms would need space for 100 private exterior offices.

In NYC, it is expected that juniors share offices (and was the case when I was in NYC biglaw over a decade ago). I understand many NYC firms are ditching offices altogether for juniors. In London, some firms are open office for everyone (even partners).

And some of the exterior offices go -- rightly, in my view -- to senior staff, many of whom are vastly more valuable to the firm than even the best first- and second-year associates.

[Anonymous User]

Incoming stub year to NYC here--does anyone have sense if there's extra space for juniors in Chicago? My GF looks like she'll have an easier time getting a job there than in NYC. Lit, if it matters.

Also, if I get licensed in both NY and IL at the same time, is it easier to switch before you start or during your first year?

Why would Chicago Lit be any easier than NY lit? Did you get a sense that it's busier, or the standards are lower?

To be clear, I meant would it be easier for me to switch offices before my stub year begins (i.e. is there space in the incoming class), or sometime early in 2025?

[Chilawstuff]

Any input on the antitrust group here? They seem to be hiring in several offices, but mostly interested in Chicago

[Anonymous User]

Incoming stub year to NYC here--does anyone have sense if there's extra space for juniors in Chicago? My GF looks like she'll have an easier time getting a job there than in NYC. Lit, if it matters.

Also, if I get licensed in both NY and IL at the same time, is it easier to switch before you start or during your first year?

Why would Chicago Lit be any easier than NY lit? Did you get a sense that it's busier, or the standards are lower?

To be clear, I meant would it be easier for me to switch offices before my stub year begins (i.e. is there space in the incoming class), or sometime early in 2025?

Bumping this because my gf found a much better job in Chicago than anything she would reasonably be able to find soon in NYC, so this is becoming a much more real emergency. Is the firm usually open to these kind of switches, or am I going to have to bail?

For context I do have a COA clerkship in the midwest coming up in a couple years if y'all think that moves the needle.

[Anonymous User]

At least a few years ago this wasn't a big deal. I knew several people who started at different offices than the one they summered with. Probably just reach out ASAP.

[Anonymous User]

When do first-years start? HR has been mum

[Anonymous User]

Incoming stub year to NYC here--does anyone have sense if there's extra space for juniors in Chicago? My GF looks like she'll have an easier time getting a job there than in NYC. Lit, if it matters.

Also, if I get licensed in both NY and IL at the same time, is it easier to switch before you start or during your first year?

Why would Chicago Lit be any easier than NY lit? Did you get a sense that it's busier, or the standards are lower?

To be clear, I meant would it be easier for me to switch offices before my stub year begins (i.e. is there space in the incoming class), or sometime early in 2025?

Bumping this because my gf found a much better job in Chicago than anything she would reasonably be able to find soon in NYC, so this is becoming a much more real emergency. Is the firm usually open to these kind of switches, or am I going to have to bail?

For context I do have a COA clerkship in the midwest coming up in a couple years if y'all think that moves the needle.

Why can't you just ask recruiting? They're not going to pull your offer over an ask, and this will not in any way impact your performance reviews once you start. On the whole, Chicago Lit has higher entry-level hiring standards than NY Lit, but also has way more bodies (and my sense is both groups are pretty easy to lateral into as a midlevel). It's going to be very individualized, so there's no point stressing out on an anonymous discussion board.

[Anonymous User]

Incoming stub year to NYC here--does anyone have sense if there's extra space for juniors in Chicago? My GF looks like she'll have an easier time getting a job there than in NYC. Lit, if it matters.

Also, if I get licensed in both NY and IL at the same time, is it easier to switch before you start or during your first year?

Why would Chicago Lit be any easier than NY lit? Did you get a sense that it's busier, or the standards are lower?

To be clear, I meant would it be easier for me to switch offices before my stub year begins (i.e. is there space in the incoming class), or sometime early in 2025?

Bumping this because my gf found a much better job in Chicago than anything she would reasonably be able to find soon in NYC, so this is becoming a much more real emergency. Is the firm usually open to these kind of switches, or am I going to have to bail?

For context I do have a COA clerkship in the midwest coming up in a couple years if y'all think that moves the needle.

Why can't you just ask recruiting? They're not going to pull your offer over an ask, and this will not in any way impact your performance reviews once you start. On the whole, Chicago Lit has higher entry-level hiring standards than NY Lit, but also has way more bodies (and my sense is both groups are pretty easy to lateral into as a midlevel). It's going to be very individualized, so there's no point stressing out on an anonymous discussion board.

All of my interactions with recruiting have been negative (if, of course, professional). They haven't seemed to want to give any flex in the past to me or the other incoming summers I've talked to so I'm not optimistic. But I guess there's no harm in asking.

I will say that I didn't expect K&E to be quite so... bureaucratic? I guess it is a massive institution, but still.

[Anonymous User]

Incoming stub year to NYC here--does anyone have sense if there's extra space for juniors in Chicago? My GF looks like she'll have an easier time getting a job there than in NYC. Lit, if it matters.

Also, if I get licensed in both NY and IL at the same time, is it easier to switch before you start or during your first year?

Why would Chicago Lit be any easier than NY lit? Did you get a sense that it's busier, or the standards are lower?

To be clear, I meant would it be easier for me to switch offices before my stub year begins (i.e. is there space in the incoming class), or sometime early in 2025?

Bumping this because my gf found a much better job in Chicago than anything she would reasonably be able to find soon in NYC, so this is becoming a much more real emergency. Is the firm usually open to these kind of switches, or am I going to have to bail?

For context I do have a COA clerkship in the midwest coming up in a couple years if y'all think that moves the needle.

Why can't you just ask recruiting? They're not going to pull your offer over an ask, and this will not in any way impact your performance reviews once you start. On the whole, Chicago Lit has higher entry-level hiring standards than NY Lit, but also has way more bodies (and my sense is both groups are pretty easy to lateral into as a midlevel). It's going to be very individualized, so there's no point stressing out on an anonymous discussion board.

All of my interactions with recruiting have been negative (if, of course, professional). They haven't seemed to want to give any flex in the past to me or the other incoming summers I've talked to so I'm not optimistic. But I guess there's no harm in asking.

I will say that I didn't expect K&E to be quite so... bureaucratic? I guess it is a massive institution, but still.

As an insider, I do know that some groups within K&E are worried they over-hired the last few summers (a lot more people than they were expecting accepted the offer, so the yield was higher than anticipated). So, they won't mind losing some folks through stuff like this.

[Anonymous User]

Incoming stub year to NYC here--does anyone have sense if there's extra space for juniors in Chicago? My GF looks like she'll have an easier time getting a job there than in NYC. Lit, if it matters.

Also, if I get licensed in both NY and IL at the same time, is it easier to switch before you start or during your first year?

Why would Chicago Lit be any easier than NY lit? Did you get a sense that it's busier, or the standards are lower?

To be clear, I meant would it be easier for me to switch offices before my stub year begins (i.e. is there space in the incoming class), or sometime early in 2025?

Bumping this because my gf found a much better job in Chicago than anything she would reasonably be able to find soon in NYC, so this is becoming a much more real emergency. Is the firm usually open to these kind of switches, or am I going to have to bail?

For context I do have a COA clerkship in the midwest coming up in a couple years if y'all think that moves the needle.

Why can't you just ask recruiting? They're not going to pull your offer over an ask, and this will not in any way impact your performance reviews once you start. On the whole, Chicago Lit has higher entry-level hiring standards than NY Lit, but also has way more bodies (and my sense is both groups are pretty easy to lateral into as a midlevel). It's going to be very individualized, so there's no point stressing out on an anonymous discussion board.

All of my interactions with recruiting have been negative (if, of course, professional). They haven't seemed to want to give any flex in the past to me or the other incoming summers I've talked to so I'm not optimistic. But I guess there's no harm in asking.

I will say that I didn't expect K&E to be quite so... bureaucratic? I guess it is a massive institution, but still.

As an insider, I do know that some groups within K&E are worried they over-hired the last few summers (a lot more people than they were expecting accepted the offer, so the yield was higher than anticipated). So, they won't mind losing some folks through stuff like this.

Yeah the corp summers in NYC had (basically) nothing to do last year, so I'm guessing there's less flex there certainly. Lit seemed pretty busy, though. Granted that may not be the best metric to use, but if (as I hear), Lit's getting generally slammed it seems like a more realistic option, no?

[Anonymous User]

Not to be rude, but lol at "peer firm." Kirkland has the most band 1 practice groups of any firm in NYC and is highest in PPP. It's quickly becoming a Kirkland/WLRK tier.

This is why people laugh at Kirkland. They think they're Cravath or Wachtell

Def not WLRK...but Cravath? Idk why Cravath is put on such a pedestal still; they've essentially ended everything at the firm that made them special (moving from lockstep partner comp -> variable partner comp -> adding nonequity tier, all within the past two years). Partners leave Cravath now at pretty much the same rate they jump off any firm, they aren't market leaders for comp, nor do they really top any league tables consistently.

Obviously CSM is still a great firm, no denying that, but not sure that it's the King of law firms the way it once was.

Cravath so desperately wants to be grouped with WLRK as much as HLS wants to be grouped with YLS and SLS.

[Anonymous User]

As an insider, I do know that some groups within K&E are worried they over-hired the last few summers (a lot more people than they were expecting accepted the offer, so the yield was higher than anticipated). So, they won't mind losing some folks through stuff like this.

Yeah the corp summers in NYC had (basically) nothing to do last year, so I'm guessing there's less flex there certainly. Lit seemed pretty busy, though. Granted that may not be the best metric to use, but if (as I hear), Lit's getting generally slammed it seems like a more realistic option, no?

It has not been my impression / anecdotal experience that litigation associates are getting slammed at K&E these days. Kind of the opposite, tbh.

[Anonymous User]

As an insider, I do know that some groups within K&E are worried they over-hired the last few summers (a lot more people than they were expecting accepted the offer, so the yield was higher than anticipated). So, they won't mind losing some folks through stuff like this.

Yeah the corp summers in NYC had (basically) nothing to do last year, so I'm guessing there's less flex there certainly. Lit seemed pretty busy, though. Granted that may not be the best metric to use, but if (as I hear), Lit's getting generally slammed it seems like a more realistic option, no?

It has not been my impression / anecdotal experience that litigation associates are getting slammed at K&E these days. Kind of the opposite, tbh.

Oof if true. My sources are mostly at other firms so I was just assuming that if the rest of the V10's lit departments are crying out for reinforcements (supposedly one is offering an august start date for incoming lit associates) that K&E's must be as well.