Which partners at your firms are notoriously terrible to work for? Forum

[Anonymous User]

"The fact that fear doesn't work on me and that I often memorialize conversations about 200 hour threats"

Just wanted to second this. When partners say ridiculous stuff, record it in an email to yourself (if you're in corporate, go back and brush up on the hearsay exceptions). You never know when a paper trail will turn out to be useful. And it also helps to have a record of what has happened so that you can decide for yourself whether you were overreacting to something. That is, sometimes it's an abusive pattern, sometimes you're just cranky and sensitive, and having a record helps you know the difference.

[Anonymous User]

Honestly just need to rant for a moment and vent & your comment is giving me that opportunity.

Wow, that environment sounds utterly deranged. Surprised they are able to hang on to associates; it’s a solid name, so you’d think associates would have plenty of options at other firms and in-house opps.

[Anonymous User]

Honestly just need to rant for a moment and vent & your comment is giving me that opportunity.

Wow, that environment sounds utterly deranged. Surprised they are able to hang on to associates; it’s a solid name, so you’d think associates would have plenty of options at other firms and in-house opps.

Holy crud. you make me want to email him.

[Anonymous User]

Honestly just need to rant for a moment and vent & your comment is giving me that opportunity.

Wow, that environment sounds utterly deranged. Surprised they are able to hang on to associates; it’s a solid name, so you’d think associates would have plenty of options at other firms and in-house opps.

Currently there are ~10 associates. Around 80% of us are 2022 hires or later. One just left. I know another 2-3 planning to leave and multiple looking for exits. The truth is they cannot keep associates and every single person that I know in the group below management is honestly doing poorly. People talk about taking up smoking/drinking to deal with the stress. The calls are constant, but if you make mistakes they start to freeze you out. it's genuinely sad because my experience at GDC otherwise has been impeccable and the firm is genuinely full of a lot of kind hardworking (normal, non-psychotic people) but if Satan is in a lake of ice in the 9th ring, then I am in the tenth ring answering emails from Scott. Once, I didn't eat for four days and the next week I was called and told I needed to pick up more work. I've had to schedule blocks of time to drink water.

We were told during the deranged expectations presentation from the 10th ring of hell that "we are always on Tik Tok anyway so there is zero reason for us to ever be away from our outlook for longer than 45 minutes, including weekends." This was by a current partner who was formerly at white & case (that's all you need to figure him out but since I still work there don't want it to come up on his google). I have that presentation recorded. An associate asked what amount should be targeted per day billable wise, this same partner said "once I billed 23 hours in a day" and left it at that. It wouldn't even be considered malicious compliance to draft a motion with him to use the bathroom. I had more freedom living in an authoritarian country that currently has work camps.

You name the -ism, you can bet it's happening in the group. People are miSERABLE. I mean, it is so disheartening to be hired at a job for 1950 then told "umm actually the target is 250/month and if you don't do it you're fired." Should be illegal the way we are being treated, but fact of the matter is we have no advocates or allies because the group is profitable for the firm. All we can do is put our time in the 10th ring and be done. For me, this will be my last stop in big law, and as an attorney. I will leave the law because I simply have no self esteem after these jobs. I feel so unworthy of good things (I know it's not true, but the constant negativity from these partners when you try so hard is soul crushing).

Thank you to each of you/all reading for your kind responses. It has been really validating just to hear people say it's not normal. I mean, my therapist says it, but you know...it means a bit more coming from other lawyers on a thread about bad times. Thanks for listening to my ted talk on why you shouldn't go near SJG. If you're a believer, throw a prayer up for me. I'm going to fucking need it since I haven't billed 200 hours this month.

Lastly, if you know anyone who might like to hire someone for anything else please...help.

[Anonymous User]

Fuck. I work rough hours and all but the people are at least nice abt it

[Anonymous User]

Anyone worked with Ji Hye You at Proskauer? Should I be afraid of getting staffed to one of her matters?

This dredged up a memory - I worked across from her back when she was at Schulte. She made us get a beefy sig page packet resigned (back in the days of wet-signing) because one of the entity names was missing a period after the "INC" and "there could be ambiguity".

[Anonymous User]

Wow. As a GDC associate in another group, that is evil behavior. I am so sorry you have to suffer such abject bullshit and inhuman cruelty. It makes me think a less of the firm honestly, because I'm sure this is all an open secret among the partners.

[Anonymous User]

KE DC: I would avoid MFW and KWA if at all possible. Both have unbearably high hours expectations, MFW will push you out of the firm if you get on his bad side, which can happen simply by saying no to one of his pitches (and he led the charge to throw a well-liked and very good NSP under the bus and getting thrown out of the firm due to a junior's document review error a few years ago), and KWA is not well liked by the partnership and has a chip on his shoulder accordingly. Ingratiating yourself to MFW can help your future, but it's not worth it; KWA doesn't have the cache to carry you forward at the firm because a lot of the heavy hitters don't like him, and you'll be wasting a lot of breath trying to get him what he wants on wild timelines.

[Anonymous User]

Honestly just need to rant for a moment and vent & your comment is giving me that opportunity.

Wow, that environment sounds utterly deranged. Surprised they are able to hang on to associates; it’s a solid name, so you’d think associates would have plenty of options at other firms and in-house opps.

Currently there are ~10 associates. ...

Lastly, if you know anyone who might like to hire someone for anything else please...help.

I would not have guessed that GDC was so leanly staffed considering the number of matters Debtwire says they're on. I flipped the website and I saw a good number of non-US associates but zooming in many of the listed bankruptcy associates are pretty clearly corporate generalists.

Anyways the vibe I've gotten is that it's a relatively hot market for bankruptcy people, especially if you have some finance skills. I'd call a recruiter.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone worked with Ji Hye You at Proskauer? Should I be afraid of getting staffed to one of her matters?

She’s even worse than what you heard.

Okay, but did you bother to read the poster directly above you? Like, WHY or HOW is she "worse than what you heard"?

Okay, yeah, she belittles her associates, makes unreasonable demands of them, has no respect for their time, has caused many of them to quit, and generally has a bad reputation with the large majority of people who have worked for her. It's not that any of the specifics are groundbreaking; I'm just giving you a corroborating voice.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone worked with Ji Hye You at Proskauer? Should I be afraid of getting staffed to one of her matters?

She’s even worse than what you heard.

Okay, but did you bother to read the poster directly above you? Like, WHY or HOW is she "worse than what you heard"?

Okay, yeah, she belittles her associates, makes unreasonable demands of them, has no respect for their time, has caused many of them to quit, and generally has a bad reputation with the large majority of people who have worked for her. It's not that any of the specifics are groundbreaking; I'm just giving you a corroborating voice.

Also terrible to work with on the other side and refuses to be commercial - very much on the 'if my client sees me be difficult, they'll take that as a good thing' pov, when in reality, it just leads to suboptimal outcomes for everyone. Always a frustrating experience.

[Anonymous User]

Also terrible to work with on the other side and refuses to be commercial - very much on the 'if my client sees me be difficult, they'll take that as a good thing' pov, when in reality, it just leads to suboptimal outcomes for everyone. Always a frustrating experience.

I've been across Prosk a few times as borrower's counsel (though never this person) and they've been frustratingly non-commercial/adversarial on what we saw as insignificant non-business points. Makes you understand why people like designating Cahill/LW/DPW when they can. (I've had positive experiences with all three.)

[Anonymous User]

Also terrible to work with on the other side and refuses to be commercial - very much on the 'if my client sees me be difficult, they'll take that as a good thing' pov, when in reality, it just leads to suboptimal outcomes for everyone. Always a frustrating experience.

I've been across Prosk a few times as borrower's counsel (though never this person) and they've been frustratingly non-commercial/adversarial on what we saw as insignificant non-business points. Makes you understand why people like designating Cahill/LW/DPW when they can. (I've had positive experiences with all three.)

Have worked with Cahill/DPW and both were very easy to work with in that context. Genuinely nice/collaborative

[Anonymous User]

Anyone worked with Ji Hye You at Proskauer? Should I be afraid of getting staffed to one of her matters?

She’s even worse than what you heard.

Okay, but did you bother to read the poster directly above you? Like, WHY or HOW is she "worse than what you heard"?

Okay, yeah, she belittles her associates, makes unreasonable demands of them, has no respect for their time, has caused many of them to quit, and generally has a bad reputation with the large majority of people who have worked for her. It's not that any of the specifics are groundbreaking; I'm just giving you a corroborating voice.

Also terrible to work with on the other side and refuses to be commercial - very much on the 'if my client sees me be difficult, they'll take that as a good thing' pov, when in reality, it just leads to suboptimal outcomes for everyone. Always a frustrating experience.

This note nails it. Not dissimilar to the Kirkland approach of performative work - i.e., if you don't send a bloodstained redline, are you even a lawyer?

Many (probably north of a dozen) people specifically cited JH as the reason that they left SRZ. She genuinely expects you to be available every single minute of the day, will chew you out over small typos, and finds all sorts of unnecessary make-work to keep you busy. Hilariously, she tends to do lower middle-market lending (so smaller deals), but the legal fees on them exceed those of jumbo LBOs. It got to a point that partners had to tell her she had to be nicer, or her future was in question. This being BigLaw, it instead resulted in a super quick promotion to partner.

The weird part is that she's socially super nice - it makes it more terrifying when she's yelling at you, because she's actively trying to be mean (as opposed to partners whose default is to yell and scream).

[LittleRedCorvette]

Question for people who are yelled at, at work: Do you ever say "Don't yell at me" to these people?

Or when people say they were "yelled at" does that mean someone's email didn't say "Thanks!" at the end?

[Anonymous User]

Do people actually have yelling or abusive partners outside of the exceedingly rare exception (like maybe one partner out of an entire firm)? It's genuinely inconceivable that that would happen in my office.

[Anonymous User]

Hilariously, she tends to do lower middle-market lending (so smaller deals), but the legal fees on them exceed those of jumbo LBOs. It got to a point that partners had to tell her she had to be nicer, or her future was in question. This being BigLaw, it instead resulted in a super quick promotion to partner.

How is this ... possible? Even if you're committed to fighting every issue on the credit agreement, I don't understand how this could happen. It's not like you're managing a syndicate and taking calls/comments from twelve banks or whatever on a LMM deal. All you need until closing is like a midlevel and partner . Should be pretty cheap.

[Bramwell]

Hilariously, she tends to do lower middle-market lending (so smaller deals), but the legal fees on them exceed those of jumbo LBOs. It got to a point that partners had to tell her she had to be nicer, or her future was in question. This being BigLaw, it instead resulted in a super quick promotion to partner.

How is this ... possible? Even if you're committed to fighting every issue on the credit agreement, I don't understand how this could happen. It's not like you're managing a syndicate and taking calls/comments from twelve banks or whatever on a LMM deal. All you need until closing is like a midlevel and partner . Should be pretty cheap.

Without commenting on said individual, spend some time working with such a personality and you’ll find that the bill can grow to astronomical levels from nitpicking every unimportant issue in documentation, distrusting and second-guessing anything opposing counsel says and micromanaging the hell out of ancillaries, diligence and everything else on the deal. To boot, when all is said and done, instead of expressing gratitude for hard work, such personality may scold the rest of the team for running the bill so high and then proceed to write off material portions of everyone else’s (but interestingly not said person’s) time.

[Anonymous User]

Wow. As a GDC associate in another group, that is evil behavior. I am so sorry you have to suffer such abject bullshit and inhuman cruelty. It makes me think a less of the firm honestly, because I'm sure this is all an open secret among the partners.

Seriously. Same here - and, I'll say, this is very unlike my experiences with the handful of bankruptcy folks we've got in my non-NYC office.

[landshoes]

Posting not anonymously to absolutely confirm everything said above about GDC bankruptcy/restructuring. Can also confirm that Scott Greenberg’s reputation is horrible among the bankruptcy bar.

Hours were 24/7 and I had to make excuses multiple times in order to try to sleep at night (in scenarios where overnighters were absolutely not justified). Wish I were joking or exaggerating.

I have heard that they are proactively reaching out to people they interviewed who decided not to go with them in order to try to convince them to join the group. They get their nicer seeming partners to do this. It’s a complete trap. There are nice partners there, even reasonable ones, particularly on the West Coast, but they absolutely cannot and will not protect you from the horrible partners.

Avoid, avoid, avoid.

[Anonymous User]

Any intel on K&E Debt Finance partners / NSPs - will be sitting in NYC but will take feedback about anyone given national staffing model.

[Anonymous User]

Reviving this thread to throw a name in the mix… anyone ever work with James Lee? Currently at Proskauer, formerly at Goodwin, K&L and SRZ. Extremely rude, screams at associates, verbally abusive, pure asshole in every sense of the word. Associates try their best to avoid him.

[Anonymous User]

Any insight into partners to avoid/gravitate toward at QE LA?

[Anonymous User]

Any insight into partners to avoid/gravitate toward at QE LA?

+1

Would appreciate any insight about QE in DC too

[Anonymous User]

Would appreciate insight into QE london lolll