Bonus Speculation Forum
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- Lincoln
- Posts: 1208
- Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:27 pm
Re: Bonus Speculation
A TTT bonus practice I wasn't aware of until recently is that Quinn Emanuel doesn't pay bonuses to associates who weren't there a full year. That doesn't sound like a big deal, but consider this scenario:
Lincoln graduated from a T6 law school (with six figures of debt, obviously) in 2015 and joined hotshot, fast-growing litigation powerhouse Quinn Emanuel in September 2015. Lincoln worked at Quinn and billed about 1 million hours before leaving the firm in August 2016 for a preftigious clerkship. Lincoln obviously didn't get a bonus in 2016 because he was not employed in December.
After finishing the clerkship, Lincoln then returned to Quinn in September 2017. My understanding is that Quinn will not pay Lincoln any bonus in 2017. Lincoln's first bonus will instead be in December 2018, but which time Lincoln will have worked at Quinn for 28 months and billed about 8 billion hours.
By contrast, Lincoln's buddy, Seward, graduated from the same T6 law school also in 2015. Seward joined the litigation department of a V5 firm. (I'll let you venture a guess at which firm Seward joined.) Seward also left to clerk in August 2016 and returned to his V5 firm in September 2017. In December 2017, Seward will receive a bonus that is pro-rated for both 2016 and 2017, meaning that he'll receive 8/12*15,000+4/12*25,000 = $18,333.
Lincoln graduated from a T6 law school (with six figures of debt, obviously) in 2015 and joined hotshot, fast-growing litigation powerhouse Quinn Emanuel in September 2015. Lincoln worked at Quinn and billed about 1 million hours before leaving the firm in August 2016 for a preftigious clerkship. Lincoln obviously didn't get a bonus in 2016 because he was not employed in December.
After finishing the clerkship, Lincoln then returned to Quinn in September 2017. My understanding is that Quinn will not pay Lincoln any bonus in 2017. Lincoln's first bonus will instead be in December 2018, but which time Lincoln will have worked at Quinn for 28 months and billed about 8 billion hours.
By contrast, Lincoln's buddy, Seward, graduated from the same T6 law school also in 2015. Seward joined the litigation department of a V5 firm. (I'll let you venture a guess at which firm Seward joined.) Seward also left to clerk in August 2016 and returned to his V5 firm in September 2017. In December 2017, Seward will receive a bonus that is pro-rated for both 2016 and 2017, meaning that he'll receive 8/12*15,000+4/12*25,000 = $18,333.
- rpupkin
- Posts: 5653
- Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:32 pm
Re: Bonus Speculation
It doesn't surprise me that Quinn operates that way. But it's definitely not just a QE thing; I know people at other big law firms who have been treated similarly when leaving to clerk and then returning.Lincoln wrote:A TTT bonus practice I wasn't aware of until recently is that Quinn Emanuel doesn't pay bonuses to associates who weren't there a full year. That doesn't sound like a big deal, but consider this scenario:
Lincoln graduated from a T6 law school (with six figures of debt, obviously) in 2015 and joined hotshot, fast-growing litigation powerhouse Quinn Emanuel in September 2015. Lincoln worked at Quinn and billed about 1 million hours before leaving the firm in August 2016 for a preftigious clerkship. Lincoln obviously didn't get a bonus in 2016 because he was not employed in December.
After finishing the clerkship, Lincoln then returned to Quinn in September 2017. My understanding is that Quinn will not pay Lincoln any bonus in 2017. Lincoln's first bonus will instead be in December 2018, but which time Lincoln will have worked at Quinn for 28 months and billed about 8 billion hours.
Also, there's a glaring weakness in your hypo: Who would leave Quinn "for a prftigious clerkship" and then return to Quinn afterward?
- Lincoln
- Posts: 1208
- Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:27 pm
Re: Bonus Speculation
Well, I know at least one person who did, which is why I know about this policy.rpupkin wrote:It doesn't surprise me that Quinn operates that way. But it's definitely not just a QE thing; I know people at other big law firms who have been treated similarly when leaving to clerk and then returning.Lincoln wrote:A TTT bonus practice I wasn't aware of until recently is that Quinn Emanuel doesn't pay bonuses to associates who weren't there a full year. That doesn't sound like a big deal, but consider this scenario:
Lincoln graduated from a T6 law school (with six figures of debt, obviously) in 2015 and joined hotshot, fast-growing litigation powerhouse Quinn Emanuel in September 2015. Lincoln worked at Quinn and billed about 1 million hours before leaving the firm in August 2016 for a preftigious clerkship. Lincoln obviously didn't get a bonus in 2016 because he was not employed in December.
After finishing the clerkship, Lincoln then returned to Quinn in September 2017. My understanding is that Quinn will not pay Lincoln any bonus in 2017. Lincoln's first bonus will instead be in December 2018, but which time Lincoln will have worked at Quinn for 28 months and billed about 8 billion hours.
Also, there's a glaring weakness in your hypo: Who would leave Quinn "for a prftigious clerkship" and then return to Quinn afterward?
I think it's bullshit, and the relevant firms should be shamed for it.
-
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:42 pm
Re: Bonus Speculation
Wouldn't the person in your hypo get a 70k clerkship bonus?
-
- Posts: 1673
- Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:22 pm
Re: Bonus Speculation
that's only supposed to help out with compensating for the shit clerkship pay...nybar2017 wrote:Wouldn't the person in your hypo get a 70k clerkship bonus?
even then, bc prestige isn't free, you're not made whole vis-a-vis a year of big law salary
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- 2014
- Posts: 6028
- Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:53 pm
Re: Bonus Speculation
Getting a full bonus upon your return to the same firm from a clerkship is generally up for negotiation before you depart (anecdotally based on multiple NY firms), though most have a baseline rule of a prorated bonus the year you return rather than no bonus. I say that just to point out that there's a chance that the QE person didn't advocate well enough for themselves, even if the general rule smells a little TTT.
-
- Posts: 428567
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Bonus Speculation
Came to Quinn after a clerkship (although I was not returning to the firm) and got a clerkship bonus and prorated bonus based on class year. Suspect your friend will get the same.
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- Posts: 428567
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Bonus Speculation
Still negotiable if you ask before accepting the offer, though, yes, what you describe is the default if you don't ask.Anonymous User wrote:Came to Quinn after a clerkship (although I was not returning to the firm) and got a clerkship bonus and prorated bonus based on class year. Suspect your friend will get the same.
Quinn is also notoriously cheap, though.
- Pokemon
- Posts: 3528
- Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:58 pm
Re: Bonus Speculation
This thread is off-topic. Cravats associates are leaving the firm in droves, only way to stop them is the raise to 200
-
- Posts: 428567
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Bonus Speculation
bonuses at 30-50% of associate's salary?! So...are my calculations right (assuming bare minimum 30%)? If so, this is INSANE.
1st year: 54k (!!!)
2nd: 57k
3rd: 63k
https://abovethelaw.com/2017/12/califor ... t-bonuses/
1st year: 54k (!!!)
2nd: 57k
3rd: 63k
https://abovethelaw.com/2017/12/califor ... t-bonuses/
-
- Posts: 428567
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Bonus Speculation
Not to discount the fact that these bonuses are great, but a fed clerkship (or two) is a given for almost all HH associates. Bonuses don't seem as dramatic if everyone's coming in as a third year. i.e.. 50k vs 63kAnonymous User wrote:bonuses at 30-50% of associate's salary?! So...are my calculations right (assuming bare minimum 30%)? If so, this is INSANE.
1st year: 54k (!!!)
2nd: 57k
3rd: 63k
https://abovethelaw.com/2017/12/califor ... t-bonuses/
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- Posts: 428567
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Bonus Speculation
I guess but I am pretty sure 3rd years are getting around 50% bonuses (105k) given how everyone who works there is always saying their bonuses are insane.Anonymous User wrote:Not to discount the fact that these bonuses are great, but a fed clerkship (or two) is a given for almost all HH associates. Bonuses don't seem as dramatic if everyone's coming in as a third year. i.e.. 50k vs 63kAnonymous User wrote:bonuses at 30-50% of associate's salary?! So...are my calculations right (assuming bare minimum 30%)? If so, this is INSANE.
1st year: 54k (!!!)
2nd: 57k
3rd: 63k
https://abovethelaw.com/2017/12/califor ... t-bonuses/
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- Posts: 428567
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Bonus Speculation
50% is pretty rare and reserved for the top billers (2500+ at least), and IMO, not worth it for the extra hours; but at least they pay up if you do hit that due to multiple trials etc. 30% is more common for juniors with "normal" hours, but 40% is also common if you had good hours and do good work, particularly for mid-levels and the few senior associates. Still kicks the crap out of market, particularly if you are a junior. It gets compressed the more senior you get, though.Anonymous User wrote:I guess but I am pretty sure 3rd years are getting around 50% bonuses (105k) given how everyone who works there is always saying their bonuses are insane.Anonymous User wrote:Not to discount the fact that these bonuses are great, but a fed clerkship (or two) is a given for almost all HH associates. Bonuses don't seem as dramatic if everyone's coming in as a third year. i.e.. 50k vs 63kAnonymous User wrote:bonuses at 30-50% of associate's salary?! So...are my calculations right (assuming bare minimum 30%)? If so, this is INSANE.
1st year: 54k (!!!)
2nd: 57k
3rd: 63k
https://abovethelaw.com/2017/12/califor ... t-bonuses/
As noted, there aren't really any true first years. Most are former clerks and/or mid-level laterals. There's a lot more individual discretion to bonuses (within the 30-50% band) depending on who you work with, your contributions to the firm, etc., even though the firm treats everyone pretty generously.
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- Posts: 428567
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Bonus Speculation
Good to know. Do you work at HH?Anonymous User wrote:50% is pretty rare and reserved for the top billers (2500+ at least), and IMO, not worth it for the extra hours; but at least they pay up if you do hit that due to multiple trials etc. 30% is more common for juniors with "normal" hours, but 40% is also common if you had good hours and do good work, particularly for mid-levels and the few senior associates. Still kicks the crap out of market, particularly if you are a junior. It gets compressed the more senior you get, though.Anonymous User wrote:I guess but I am pretty sure 3rd years are getting around 50% bonuses (105k) given how everyone who works there is always saying their bonuses are insane.Anonymous User wrote:Not to discount the fact that these bonuses are great, but a fed clerkship (or two) is a given for almost all HH associates. Bonuses don't seem as dramatic if everyone's coming in as a third year. i.e.. 50k vs 63kAnonymous User wrote:bonuses at 30-50% of associate's salary?! So...are my calculations right (assuming bare minimum 30%)? If so, this is INSANE.
1st year: 54k (!!!)
2nd: 57k
3rd: 63k
https://abovethelaw.com/2017/12/califor ... t-bonuses/
As noted, there aren't really any true first years. Most are former clerks and/or mid-level laterals. There's a lot more individual discretion to bonuses (within the 30-50% band) depending on who you work with, your contributions to the firm, etc., even though the firm treats everyone pretty generously.
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- Posts: 428567
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Bonus Speculation
Morgan Lewis match plus additional "discretionary" bonuses for top performing associates.
-
- Posts: 204
- Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:52 pm
Re: Bonus Speculation
Discretionary bonus was not getting no-offered as a summer.Anonymous User wrote:Morgan Lewis match plus additional "discretionary" bonuses for top performing associates.
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- Posts: 204
- Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:52 pm
Re: Bonus Speculation
The ATL announcement on A&PKS bonuses mentions that S&C bonuses are a black box. That seems new this year?
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- Posts: 11730
- Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am
Re: Bonus Speculation
Fake news bro. Pretty sure that's just an Easter Egg for anyone devoted enough to read about Arnold & Porter bonuses.anonnymouse wrote:The ATL announcement on A&PKS bonuses mentions that S&C bonuses are a black box. That seems new this year?
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- Posts: 428567
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Bonus Speculation
Cahill beat the market again, special bonuses on top of the cravath scale as follows:
2009 50k
2010 40k
2011 40k
2012 25k
2013 25k
2014 20k
2015 15k
2016 10k
2017 0k
Source: https://abovethelaw.com/2017/12/biglaw- ... t-bonuses/
2009 50k
2010 40k
2011 40k
2012 25k
2013 25k
2014 20k
2015 15k
2016 10k
2017 0k
Source: https://abovethelaw.com/2017/12/biglaw- ... t-bonuses/
Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- SmokeytheBear
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:40 pm
Re: Bonus Speculation
what the sweet baby jesusAnonymous User wrote:Cahill beat the market again, special bonuses on top of the cravath scale as follows:
2009 50k
2010 40k
2011 40k
2012 25k
2013 25k
2014 20k
2015 15k
2016 10k
2017 0k
- Yugihoe
- Posts: 691
- Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:25 pm
Re: Bonus Speculation
Yea it's crazy. First year is making 205k all-in. Almost makes big law worth it.SmokeytheBear wrote:what the sweet baby jesusAnonymous User wrote:Cahill beat the market again, special bonuses on top of the cravath scale as follows:
2009 50k
2010 40k
2011 40k
2012 25k
2013 25k
2014 20k
2015 15k
2016 10k
2017 0k
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- Posts: 1037
- Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:30 pm
Re: Bonus Speculation
Not great. https://abovethelaw.com/2017/12/firms-c ... eir-peers/
e: the Law360 layout is more visual and easier to understand (at least for me) but may be paywalled. https://www.law360.com/legalindustry/ar ... vath-scale
e: the Law360 layout is more visual and easier to understand (at least for me) but may be paywalled. https://www.law360.com/legalindustry/ar ... vath-scale
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- Posts: 1845
- Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:22 am
Re: Bonus Speculation
To be fair, making a quasi-biglaw salary in STL seems pretty damned sweet.cfcm wrote:Not great. https://abovethelaw.com/2017/12/firms-c ... eir-peers/
e: the Law360 layout is more visual and easier to understand (at least for me) but may be paywalled. https://www.law360.com/legalindustry/ar ... vath-scale
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- Posts: 428567
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Bonus Speculation
Got fugged on my bonus despite billing ~2200 hours as a mid-level - was gonna use this to wipe out my loan balance but since I've been rewarded instead with boomer partners' POCKET CHANGE in lieu of real bone-us, SOFI's investors will continue sipping mai tai's on the beach in the MALDIVES for another few months at my expense. Feels bad, man, feels real bad.
Better update my resume to include that article I "co-wrote" with several partners' earlier this year and instruct the tailor to make my suits fit me again, this is the last straw DAMNIT.
Better update my resume to include that article I "co-wrote" with several partners' earlier this year and instruct the tailor to make my suits fit me again, this is the last straw DAMNIT.
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- Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 4:41 pm
Re: Bonus Speculation
What? What was the reasoning
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
Now there's a charge.
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