Meeting with practice group chair for drinks after cold email Forum
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Meeting with practice group chair for drinks after cold email
cold emailed senior partner and practice group chair re joining the firm. I graduated in '16. I've been in gov't work since last October and want to transition. Partner says he's happy to put my application through the "official process" but wants to meet informally first, maybe alongside a few colleagues. Fwiw, there aren't any current openings in his area listed on the firm site (but he did not mention this)
apart from relevant work experience and cool summer work, I'm a shit candidate who graduated bottom third at our shared t20. My resume is deceiving so I figure he assumes I graduated higher in my class
What's the best I can hope for??
apart from relevant work experience and cool summer work, I'm a shit candidate who graduated bottom third at our shared t20. My resume is deceiving so I figure he assumes I graduated higher in my class
What's the best I can hope for??
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Meeting with practice group chair for drinks after cold email
If they like you and think you'd be good to work with your grades probably won't matter.
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Re: Meeting with practice group chair for drinks after cold email
A NJL 250 not caring about grades 1.5 years out?Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:If they like you and think you'd be good to work with your grades probably won't matter.
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Re: Meeting with practice group chair for drinks after cold email
Not sure if this response is from OP, but if you seem smart and competent, they may be willing to overlook grades. Don't sell yourself short at this stage. They're interest in talking. Make a good impression and go from there.Anonymous User wrote:A NJL 250 not caring about grades 1.5 years out?Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:If they like you and think you'd be good to work with your grades probably won't matter.
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Re: Meeting with practice group chair for drinks after cold email
What more is there to say, really? Lawyers--especially partners--don't waste their times, nor that of their colleagues, meeting some random recent graduate who specifically asked about joining the firm, unless they have some genuine interest in that candidate. Maybe your application still needs to go through the "official process," but if you leave a good impression with the partner(s) you meet, that official process might be more of a formality.
It might have been different if you just cold e-mailed these people asking if they'd be willing to grab coffee to talk about their practice or whatever, but the original post suggests you specifically inquired about a job.
It might have been different if you just cold e-mailed these people asking if they'd be willing to grab coffee to talk about their practice or whatever, but the original post suggests you specifically inquired about a job.
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Re: Meeting with practice group chair for drinks after cold email
Yes, my initial email said I want to work in his practice, and I attached my resume and a WS relevant to that very niche arealolwat wrote:What more is there to say, really? Lawyers--especially partners--don't waste their times, nor that of their colleagues, meeting some random recent graduate who specifically asked about joining the firm, unless they have some genuine interest in that candidate. Maybe your application still needs to go through the "official process," but if you leave a good impression with the partner(s) you meet, that official process might be more of a formality.
It might have been different if you just cold e-mailed these people asking if they'd be willing to grab coffee to talk about their practice or whatever, but the original post suggests you specifically inquired about a job.
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Re: Meeting with practice group chair for drinks after cold email
Yeah, so he's basically responding directly to an application. It's basically a screener.Anonymous User wrote:Yes, my initial email said I want to work in his practice, and I attached my resume and a WS relevant to that very niche arealolwat wrote:What more is there to say, really? Lawyers--especially partners--don't waste their times, nor that of their colleagues, meeting some random recent graduate who specifically asked about joining the firm, unless they have some genuine interest in that candidate. Maybe your application still needs to go through the "official process," but if you leave a good impression with the partner(s) you meet, that official process might be more of a formality.
It might have been different if you just cold e-mailed these people asking if they'd be willing to grab coffee to talk about their practice or whatever, but the original post suggests you specifically inquired about a job.
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Re: Meeting with practice group chair for drinks after cold email
I never applied to firms while in school, so while I can figure out what "screener" means, I don't know what could happen nextlolwat wrote:Yeah, so he's basically responding directly to an application. It's basically a screener.Anonymous User wrote:Yes, my initial email said I want to work in his practice, and I attached my resume and a WS relevant to that very niche arealolwat wrote:What more is there to say, really? Lawyers--especially partners--don't waste their times, nor that of their colleagues, meeting some random recent graduate who specifically asked about joining the firm, unless they have some genuine interest in that candidate. Maybe your application still needs to go through the "official process," but if you leave a good impression with the partner(s) you meet, that official process might be more of a formality.
It might have been different if you just cold e-mailed these people asking if they'd be willing to grab coffee to talk about their practice or whatever, but the original post suggests you specifically inquired about a job.
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Re: Meeting with practice group chair for drinks after cold email
The most likely "next" is:
a) You meet them, they like you, and your application goes to the next step of a callback interview
b) You meet them, they don't like you enough, and your application is dead
a) You meet them, they like you, and your application goes to the next step of a callback interview
b) You meet them, they don't like you enough, and your application is dead
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Re: Meeting with practice group chair for drinks after cold email
Thanks for your help. I told the partner that I couldn't start until next spring because of an ongoing project, but I guess he doesn't care that much. We can both afford to be patientlolwat wrote:The most likely "next" is:
a) You meet them, they like you, and your application goes to the next step of a callback interview
b) You meet them, they don't like you enough, and your application is dead
When would he ask for a transcript?
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Re: Meeting with practice group chair for drinks after cold email
How on earth did your start date reqs come up - naturally - in this ex exchange? Also, if u really want this job, fuck the ongoing project (if this gets to offer stage).Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for your help. I told the partner that I couldn't start until next spring because of an ongoing project, but I guess he doesn't care that much. We can both afford to be patientlolwat wrote:The most likely "next" is:
a) You meet them, they like you, and your application goes to the next step of a callback interview
b) You meet them, they don't like you enough, and your application is dead
When would he ask for a transcript?
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Re: Meeting with practice group chair for drinks after cold email
Agreed.lolwat wrote:What more is there to say, really? Lawyers--especially partners--don't waste their times, nor that of their colleagues, meeting some random recent graduate who specifically asked about joining the firm, unless they have some genuine interest in that candidate.
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Re: Meeting with practice group chair for drinks after cold email
Agree with this as well.RaceJudicata wrote: Also, if u really want this job, fuck the ongoing project (if this gets to offer stage).
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Re: Meeting with practice group chair for drinks after cold email
yes that is how things work. grades stop mattering once practice comes into play. if he likes you, HR might ask for a transcript to make sure you graduated/for the callback stages. but no one will give a shit.Anonymous User wrote:A NJL 250 not caring about grades 1.5 years out?Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:If they like you and think you'd be good to work with your grades probably won't matter.
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Re: Meeting with practice group chair for drinks after cold email
OP here
This is all very encouraging. Thanks everyone.
I'm wondering whether this partner could create an opening when one doesn't otherwise exist. Say: We meet, it goes well, but oops no openings so I'm just in their file cabinet for years. If a group chair wants another warm body, can they demand it?
This is all very encouraging. Thanks everyone.
I'm wondering whether this partner could create an opening when one doesn't otherwise exist. Say: We meet, it goes well, but oops no openings so I'm just in their file cabinet for years. If a group chair wants another warm body, can they demand it?
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Re: Meeting with practice group chair for drinks after cold email
It depends how much "juice" the partner has. If the partner is a rainmaker who generates plenty of work to pawn off on a new associate, he can pretty much hire who he wants at most firms (barring nepotism or manifestly unqualified candidates). A young service partner would have to lobby to create a new associate opening, and would be much less likely to be successful. Given that this is the practice group chair, it's highly likely he can hire you if he wants.Anonymous User wrote:OP here
This is all very encouraging. Thanks everyone.
I'm wondering whether this partner could create an opening when one doesn't otherwise exist. Say: We meet, it goes well, but oops no openings so I'm just in their file cabinet for years. If a group chair wants another warm body, can they demand it?
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Re: Meeting with practice group chair for drinks after cold email
I very recently had a practice group chair create a position for me out of thin air. It took him a couple weeks, but they have enough sway that if they tell the partnership "we need this person" then they will normally get what they want.Anonymous User wrote:OP here
This is all very encouraging. Thanks everyone.
I'm wondering whether this partner could create an opening when one doesn't otherwise exist. Say: We meet, it goes well, but oops no openings so I'm just in their file cabinet for years. If a group chair wants another warm body, can they demand it?
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Re: Meeting with practice group chair for drinks after cold email
How'd you do it?Anonymous User wrote:I very recently had a practice group chair create a position for me out of thin air. It took him a couple weeks, but they have enough sway that if they tell the partnership "we need this person" then they will normally get what they want.Anonymous User wrote:OP here
This is all very encouraging. Thanks everyone.
I'm wondering whether this partner could create an opening when one doesn't otherwise exist. Say: We meet, it goes well, but oops no openings so I'm just in their file cabinet for years. If a group chair wants another warm body, can they demand it?
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Re: Meeting with practice group chair for drinks after cold email
?Anonymous User wrote:How'd you do it?Anonymous User wrote:I very recently had a practice group chair create a position for me out of thin air. It took him a couple weeks, but they have enough sway that if they tell the partnership "we need this person" then they will normally get what they want.Anonymous User wrote:OP here
This is all very encouraging. Thanks everyone.
I'm wondering whether this partner could create an opening when one doesn't otherwise exist. Say: We meet, it goes well, but oops no openings so I'm just in their file cabinet for years. If a group chair wants another warm body, can they demand it?
You convince the partner that they really want to have you working for them.
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Re: Meeting with practice group chair for drinks after cold email
Law firms generally don't have "openings" in the traditional sense--at least not for associate hiring. Each hiring season, firms and practice groups have targets for the number of new associates they want to bring on board. Rarely does a firm hit their target exactly--they'll usually be a little over or a little under, depending on various circumstances.Anonymous User wrote:OP here
This is all very encouraging. Thanks everyone.
I'm wondering whether this partner could create an opening when one doesn't otherwise exist. Say: We meet, it goes well, but oops no openings so I'm just in their file cabinet for years. If a group chair wants another warm body, can they demand it?
Although big law hiring generally follows a predictable schedule for summer-associate and post-clerkship candiates, lateral hiring is more fluid. If a practice group ends up busier than expected and/or associate attrition is unusually high, they'll put extra focus on finding lateral candidates. But the targets are often soft--e.g., "we're aiming to bring on two or three new associates this spring," or "we have a budget for two new associates, but if there are three we really like we'll hire all three." As others have indicated, the amount of flexibility any partner might have will depend on his or her power and influence at the firm. Depending on the firm's culture and the partner's influence, he may have close to absolute autonomy to hire anyone at anytime.
So here's the thing: because law-firm hiring (and especially lateral hiring) is so soft and fluid, it's important to make yourself available immediately if the firm is interested now. If you say "I'm interested but don't want to start until the spring," you run the risk that the firm will have hired someone else by then. Or maybe the firm gets to the spring and decides that they don't want to take on another associate after all. This doesn't mean that you have to make yourself available to start at the firm tomorrow, but you should make clear that you're ready to start in what could reasonably be described as "the present" (say within two to four weeks) if the firm is interested.
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Re: Meeting with practice group chair for drinks after cold email
Bumping because we're meeting soon and I want to set my expectations right
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Re: Meeting with practice group chair for drinks after cold email
This depends on firm. There are plenty where grades still matter, even after you have been practicing. It may or may not be the case at the firm OP is interviewing at. Of course, exceptions are made based on partner's clout, firm need, relevance of lateral's practice, etc.Johann wrote:yes that is how things work. grades stop mattering once practice comes into play. if he likes you, HR might ask for a transcript to make sure you graduated/for the callback stages. but no one will give a shit.Anonymous User wrote:A NJL 250 not caring about grades 1.5 years out?Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:If they like you and think you'd be good to work with your grades probably won't matter.
Re about leading up to the meeting, be yourself. The right biglaw firm is probably one at which you get along well with the personalities at the firm. They're going to be evaluating you this way as well. On the can't start until later point, it is fine that you said that. It shows that you are being utilized at your current job. But I wouldn't press the point that you have to remain where you are for some months before starting. Lateral hiring is more focused on current needs than 2L OCI. They probably would plan for you to join within about a month. Something to keep in mind when discussing your availability. Good luck.
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Re: Meeting with practice group chair for drinks after cold email
One last bump for the over-stuffed crowd who'd rather day post than spend one more day around family
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Re: Meeting with practice group chair for drinks after cold email
Dude. Chill. It's a job interview. Go get the job.
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
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