My Breakdown of the SoCal Job Market (Plus Advice) Forum

[Anonymous User]

I recently got an attorney job here in California. I wanted to share the breakdown of my job search to paint a picture of the legal job market in Southern California in 2014.

You can interpret it as you like - motivation to persevere no matter how tough times are, or as a warning to avoid law school, or just entertainment.

About me: I graduated from a T20 law school and got my California state bar license in December 2013. I applied to everything - big firms, mid-sized firms, small firms, nonprofits, government jobs, etc.

Here are the stats:



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Duration of job search after getting bar license : 8 months

Number of Resumes emailed out: 785

Number of Interviews set up: 24

*12 small firms, 5 mid-sized firms, 1 BigLaw firm, 2 in-house positions, 2 government jobs, 2 tax resolution companies

Job Offers: 3

*2 of these were too shady for me to accept despite my desperation.

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Some Notes, Observations and Tips:


*Sources of job postings / contacts: Symplicity, Craigslist, The Daily Journal, LinkedIn, USAjobs.gov, governmentjobs.com, a list of recruiting contacts for all the biglaw firms, and a couple of little-known websites I want to keep secret.

*Don't worry if an ad says you need 1-2 years experience, or even 2-5 years, you can still get an interview to these as a new admitee. Just don't apply if it says 3-5 or 5-7 and beyond.

*Despite the bad market, employment law and workers' compensation are booming fields still in California. There are daily postings for job openings at employment and WC law firms. If you are in law school take Employment Law.

*The Daily Journal doesn't have a lot of postings, but the ones it does are high-quality and, unlike the other sources, if you fit the criteria listed they will definitely call you for an interview. This is a respectable publication so the ads are very legit. You can either use the print copy or look on their website every morning (they update it daily).

*Craigslist has become a less shady source because they have a new policy whereby you have to pay $25 to post a job ad, so this weeded out a lot of scams they use to have. You can find some surprisingly good job opportunities here now (I saw Lewis Brisbois post an ad recently). But they still have some shady scams.

*A lot of employers, especially at smaller firms, have a strong bias toward local applicants who live near the office, even if you tell them you are willing to relocate and you went to a better school. You may want to use a friend's address on some resumes.


***VERY IMPORTANT - I don't know why law school career service offices don't teach this, but you have to know the stereotypes of the different kinds of employers to tweek your interviewing style to cater to them.

For example, BigLaw interviews are way chiller than small firm interviews, which tend to be more intense. I can't stress enough how different the lawyers are in the two types of firms.

The biglaw lawyer is an introverted, nerdy type guy. He or she is obsessed with school and grades, and has a passive-aggressive style.

The small firm litigator is an aggressive alpha male with a loud voice and hot secretaries (without exception). The small litigator is obsessed with "attitude" and "fire in your belly."

The government lawyer is a passionate warrior for his/her cause that has dreamt of being in this position since childhood.

--> So to prepare for a biglaw interview, just get ready for an hour or longer of cordial conversation with a few people.

--> Before a small firm interview drink coffee and get pumped up in order to show off your passion for litigation. You have to pitch yourself like a salesman in 15-20 minutes.

---> For government jobs prepare a monologue about your lifelong goal of establishing justice and reforming society.

Good luck!

[Anonymous User]

thank you so much!, this is awesome. and just a couple of q, if u dont mind

1. so, you did not go to school in so cal?

2. if you didnt go to school in so cal, did u think the job search was kinda hard for u because of that.

3. any intersting things u learned through out this job search process of different areas in socal, legal climate in different areas, example- downtown la, orange county, san diego.

[KidStuddi]

785 applications to land one acceptable job offer with a degree from a T20? I know the market is shit in California, but I'm not sure you should be giving advice on how to market yourself with that kind of return rate...

What were your grades like?

[minnbills]

785 applications to land one acceptable job offer with a degree from a T20? I know the market is shit in California, but I'm not sure you should be giving advice on how to market yourself with that kind of return rate...

What were your grades like?

lol. 3 offers out of 785 applications is excellent ITE.

[A. Nony Mouse]

785 applications to land one acceptable job offer with a degree from a T20? I know the market is shit in California, but I'm not sure you should be giving advice on how to market yourself with that kind of return rate...

What were your grades like?

I mean, the post-OCI - and in this case, post-bar - job search is totally different than if you get something through OCI.

[KidStuddi]

Eh, I attended a T20 too. The vast majority of my classmates / close friends didn't have Biglaw or A3 clerkships lined up, but most of them still found something sooner than 8 months. Hell, I know people who attended U Balt (the TTTT not Maryland), graduated below median, and still had a small firm job within a few months of graduation. Just because OP managed to get a job, eventually, hardly seems like an impressive qualification. And did you guys read this advice?

The government lawyer is a passionate warrior for his/her cause that has dreamt of being in this position since childhood.

---> For government jobs prepare a monologue about your lifelong goal of establishing justice and reforming society.

I mean, really? I appreciate OP giving a datapoint (which would be more helpful with a GPA attached), but I still maintain the advice should be taken with a rather large grain of salt.

[Anonymous User]

first, congrats on finding a job you like OP.

second, OP's advice can really just be boiled down to : hustle. the rest of his advice (and comments on the hotness of secretaries) is incorrect

[Anonymous User]

thank you so much!, this is awesome. and just a couple of q, if u dont mind

1. so, you did not go to school in so cal?

2. if you didnt go to school in so cal, did u think the job search was kinda hard for u because of that.

3. any intersting things u learned through out this job search process of different areas in socal, legal climate in different areas, example- downtown la, orange county, san diego.

OP checking in.

I don't want to reveal anything private about myself so I won't answer questions 1 and 2.

But as for question 3 - I find that San Diego small and mid-sized firms are fiercely loyal to the local SD law schools. Even in their job ads they make a note that they prefer graduates from the SD schools (Western, USD, Thomas Jefferson). I suppose that's because a lot of SD attorneys there are graduates from those schools themselves. The situation is of course different for big firms and government jobs in SD.

LA firms don't care where you went to school as long as it was a good school and you are currently living in the LA area.

LA has more opportunities, more networking events, and more diversity. OC and SD firms have a more "provincial" feel.

first, congrats on finding a job you like OP.

second, OP's advice can really just be boiled down to : hustle. the rest of his advice (and comments on the hotness of secretaries) is incorrect

Small firm plaintiff side litigators have always been aggressive guys with hot young secretaries from my experience. The only time this hasn't been true is when the head attorney is female herself.

I guess we can agree to disagree on my advice. I confirmed it with attorney friends who work in a variety of legal settings before I posted it though.

My most valuable advice was guiding people to certain sources like the Daily Journal. A lot of people don't even know there are job postings in there.

Eh, I attended a T20 too. The vast majority of my classmates / close friends didn't have Biglaw or A3 clerkships lined up, but most of them still found something sooner than 8 months. Hell, I know people who attended U Balt (the TTTT not Maryland), graduated below median, and still had a small firm job within a few months of graduation. Just because OP managed to get a job, eventually, hardly seems like an impressive qualification. And did you guys read this advice?

The government lawyer is a passionate warrior for his/her cause that has dreamt of being in this position since childhood.

---> For government jobs prepare a monologue about your lifelong goal of establishing justice and reforming society.

I mean, really? I appreciate OP giving a datapoint (which would be more helpful with a GPA attached), but I still maintain the advice should be taken with a rather large grain of salt.

I was being hyperbolic with my stereotypes in order to spice up my post, but there is a lot of truth behind them. I heard from a Public Defender herself that when you interview with the PD or DA office you have to include something about how the job was a goal for several years. That's who they hire. They actually don't care what school you go to. The LA Public Defender and DA office - both very coveted - are filled with graduates of lower-ranked schools. Federal government jobs are of course different story. But either way the people who get hired show lots of passion and experience in their respective fields. You have to convey that in your interview.

[Charger]

So you came in here to give your "most valuable advice" to read the Daily Journal, but also to rub it in peoples' faces that you know of "a couple of little-known [job search] websites [you] want to keep secret." LOL.

[prezidentv8]

The small firm litigator is an aggressive alpha male with a loud voice and hot secretaries (without exception). The small litigator is obsessed with "attitude" and "fire in your belly."

LOL is this me?

[Anonymous User]

OP checking in, wondering if the situation on the ground is the same or not this year

[Anonymous User]

Interesting...

[prezidentv8]

Interesting...

Quite the bump! And quite the use of the anon function!

Also, new Star Wars movie was cool.

[Anonymous User]

Good post. I like your characterization of large law firms/ small/mid sized law firms. I can relate.You should not stigmatize people in advance, but you do need to know general characteristics to predict what you are getting into. Even if it ends up different things than what you expected, at least you are psychologically prepared.

Thanks!

[johndhi]

awesome and funny post, OP. congrats.

[Anonymous User]

785 applications to land one acceptable job offer with a degree from a T20? I know the market is shit in California, but I'm not sure you should be giving advice on how to market yourself with that kind of return rate...

What were your grades like?

lol. 3 offers out of 785 applications is excellent ITE.

I dunno, may have just been sheer luck on my part but I landed a decent job at a 40 attorney insurance defense mill pretty quickly. I only did 20 or so applications. Graduated from crap CA school with honors in 2012.

[84651846190]

Someone remind me again why people are still going to non-T14 law schools.