What will it take to get back to California from CCN? Forum

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:00 pm

I am a 1L at CCN. My goal is to end up back in CA, it looks like LA is a stronger market than the bay area so I will shoot for there. What will it take grade-wise to have a good shot at LA? I know ITE there is nothing guaranteed but I'm sure you guys have some insight.

relevant stats:

have lived in both the bay area and LA for my whole life until law school
CCN
URM
~4 years WE at a big4 acct firm in audit (3 years in bay area, 1 in LA)
CPA license
I would rate my interviewing skills as strong

thoughts?

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:23 pm

Above median and you will be fine. Make sure to emphasize your desire to return home. I had weaker ties, above median and had 5 offers.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:01 pm

Tax? Should not be a problem if you're above median, still doable if you're in the next quarter down. Cali isn't really super-selective as much as it's really demanding of ties (unlike, say, DC). Of course, tax is always in demand.

Renzo · Post by **Renzo** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:03 pm

Lack of ties to the area is the largest impediment, so you should be good.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:04 pm

You'll have an easier time if you're at Chicago or Columbia versus NYU.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:08 pm

Bay Area tends to require higher grades than LA, but with such small class sizes, fit and ties matter more (once you are above median) unless you want to go to one of the top firms.

shoeshine · Post by **shoeshine** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:11 pm

From my research, it seems like someone with your experience and ties should have no problem getting back to the LA or Bay Area. As long as the ties are significant and your grades are median or better I don't see why you would have a problem coming back.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:21 pm

Good friend of mine went Bay Area with above median grades (not Stone or anything). Just be sure to throw a few NYC firms into your bid list for good measure. You just never know in this economy.

Also, for the love of God, don't worry about EIP until like, May. It will take over several months of your life as it is. Right now, be thinking about getting your job apps out promptly after 11/1 for 1L summer. You don't really need to start applying until New Year's, but quality of life improves substantially after you have something. One of my big regrets last year was waiting to start applying.

BruceWayne · Post by **BruceWayne** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Above median and you will be fine. Make sure to emphasize your desire to return home. I had weaker ties, above median and had 5 offers.

Anonymous User wrote:Tax? Should not be a problem if you're above median, still doable if you're in the next quarter down. Cali isn't really super-selective as much as it's really demanding of ties (unlike, say, DC). Of course, tax is always in demand.

Anonymous User wrote:Bay Area tends to require higher grades than LA, but with such small class sizes, fit and ties matter more (once you are above median) unless you want to go to one of the top firms.

shoeshine wrote:From my research, it seems like someone with your experience and ties should have no problem getting back to the LA or Bay Area. As long as the ties are significant and your grades are median or better I don't see why you would have a problem coming back.

Good friend of mine went Bay Area with above median grades (not Stone or anything). Just be sure to throw a few NYC firms into your bid list for good measure. You just never know in this economy.

LMAO!!! I LOVE how people are telling the OP "above median" and "median or higher" and you'll be fine as if it's this thing that one just causally decides to do. "Oh I think I'll just land above median or at worst median at Columbia Law school".

Above median at Columbia is "no problem" now? That last quote in particular is hilarious.

To the OP: luckily the sentiment their expressing is probably right (that you shouldn't have much trouble getting a job in california). But I assure you that that is NOT because it's "easy" to get above median grades at one of the most competitive law schools in the country (in fact the odds of that happening are, unfortunately, stacked against you). It's because you have a very strong background in terms of what firms look for, and because you are interested in a niche practice area where you have extremely relevant WE.

A better answer to your question is that you will probably be fine (assuming you are a decent interviewer) as long as you get a 3.0 or higher (or whatever the equivalent is from Chicago). If you're serious about tax and are at NYU do the joint degree in taxation and get your LLM. Only one extra semester and it's the best tax program in the nation. You'll probably get a scholly for it as well. Hell even if you aren't at NYU get the joint degree--especially if you're at Columbia. Even if you get below a 3.0, if you attend every job fair you can (like Western BLSA) and work hard at selling yourself on your WE and your other "soft" qualities, you still have a chance.

shoeshine · Post by **shoeshine** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
LMAO!!! I LOVE how people are telling the OP "above median" and "median or higher" and you'll be fine as if it's this thing that one just causally decides to do. "Oh I think I'll just land above median or at worst median at Columbia Law school". Above median at Columbia is "no problem" now? That last quote in particular is hilarious.

To the OP: luckily the sentiment their expressing is probably right (that you shouldn't have much trouble getting a job in California). But I assure you that that is NOT because it's "easy" to get above median grades at one of the most competitive law schools in the country (in fact the odds of that happening are, unfortunately, stacked against you). It's because you have a very strong background in terms of what firms look for, and because you are interested in a niche practice area where you have extremely relevant WE.

A better answer to your question is that you will probably be fine (assuming you are a decent interviewer) as long as you get a 3.0 or higher (or whatever the equivalent is from Chicago). If you're serious about tax and are at NYU do the joint degree in taxation and get your LLM. Only one extra semester and it's the best tax program in the nation. You'll probably get a scholly for it as well. Hell even if you aren't at NYU get the joint degree--especially if you're at Columbia.

You have no legitimate reason to be anonymous other than the fact that you are being a douche.

No one said that getting median or above is easy. In fact, you are the only one who even mentioned that. It will be hard but I assume if OP was admitted to one of CCN then OP has the skills necessary to compete with his classmates.

Anonymous User wrote:(in fact the odds of that happening are, unfortunately, stacked against you)

The odds are not "stacked" against him. Statistically 51% of the people at his school will be at median or above. Therefore the odds are slightly in his favor. Learn math. (also learn grammar, you stack chips, odds are in or out of your favor)

OP should not rely on being above median but all our advice was valid. If he is above median he won't have much to worry about. His chances below median are not certain.

MrKappus · Post by **MrKappus** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:56 pm

shoeshine wrote:Statistically 51% of the people at his school will be at median or above.

QFStatisticsFail.

shoeshine · Post by **shoeshine** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:59 pm

MrKappus wrote:
shoeshine wrote:Statistically 51% of the people at his school will be at median or above.
QFStatisticsFail.

Alright somewhere between 50 and 51% but the point is that it is over 50%.

timbs4339 · Post by **timbs4339** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:07 pm

OP: You're in a very good position from CCN. Don't get any red flag grades on your transcript- at CLS I think a B- or lower is a red flag, and your WE, ties, and interests should carry you through. The people I knew who struck out in California (and it is one of the harder markets in the nation right now) were all pretty generic applicants with below median grades and no work experience.

BruceWayne · Post by **BruceWayne** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:20 pm

shoeshine wrote:You have no legitimate reason to be anonymous other than the fact that you are being a douche.

No one said that getting median or above is easy. In fact, you are the only one who even mentioned that. It will be hard but I assume if OP was admitted to one of CCN then OP has the skills necessary to compete with his classmates.

shoeshine wrote:The odds are not "stacked" against him. Statistically 51% of the people at his school will be at median or above. Therefore the odds are slightly in his favor. Learn math. (also learn grammar, you stack chips, odds are in or out of your favor)

OP should not rely on being above median but all our advice was valid. If he is above median he won't have much to worry about. His chances below median are not certain.

LOL as someone already pointed out you've screwed up a lot of math in this post, which is ironic considering you're ignorant enough to tell someone else to "learn math". In addition, you have a very hard time reading between the lines. Clearly none of them directly said being above median was "easy", no shit captain obvious. But the fact that they are throwing around phrases like "just get above median and you'll be fine" implies it. You know what the definition of imply is right? The other issue that you're missing (although I don't expect you to grasp this considering the way in which you screwed up the percentile issue) is that there are a lot of independent variables for any given individual in terms of whether they will achieve a certain class rank. To say that he/she in particular has a 50 percent chance of being above median is dumb. You have to take into account individual factors. For example, it is highly unlikely that Justice Bryer's son has only a 50 percent chance of being above median. Nevertheless that wasn't the gist of my post or what's particularly important to the OP, which is what his/her chances are at landing the job that they desire.

Also you're something of a fool with the douche comment. If you read the entire post you would understand that the gist of what I'm saying is that he/she will be fine, just not for the unrealistic reasons the former posters were implying. Frankly, knowing how the OP will do if they land in the top half of their super elite law school isn't really helpful. They probably have enough sense to realize that they will be fine if they have high grades at an elite law school. That's common sense. The real question is what happens if they don't.

You also probably have little no experience with this subject to even comment on it. Are you a URM at a top 14 school? If not then in comparison to me you don't know what the hell you're talking about. HTH

shoeshine · Post by **shoeshine** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:34 pm

BruceWayne wrote: Are you a URM at a top 14 school? If not then in comparison to me you don't know what the hell you're talking about. HTH

I am a URM and yes I am at a T14.

I didn't screw up any of the math. It is impossible to know what OP's grades are ahead of time. Are you suggesting you know what he will achieve based on his one post here? All I was stating is that slightly more than 50% of the people at his school will be at median or above. So no the odds are not out of his favor based on the information he gave us here.

big_blue79 · Post by **big_blue79** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:45 pm

BruceWayne wrote:The real question is what happens if they don't.

No.

Anonymous User wrote:What will it take grade-wise to have a good shot at LA?

That is the real question. I know people that had slightly-below grades at CCN with good ties and missed out on LA. It's possible below median, but I would not rate the chances as good.

BruceWayne · Post by **BruceWayne** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:58 pm

shoeshine wrote:
BruceWayne wrote: Are you a URM at a top 14 school? If not then in comparison to me you don't know what the hell you're talking about. HTH
I am a URM and yes I am at a T14.

I didn't screw up any of the math. It is impossible to know what OP's grades are ahead of time. Are you suggesting you know what he will achieve based on his one post here? All I was stating is that slightly more than 50% of the people at his school will be at median or above. So no the odds are not out of his favor based on the information he gave us here.

WTF are you trying to get into/at? I have no bone to pick, nor am I making a statement, as to what grades the OP will get. It's like you locked on to my comment about being above median not being as easy as the posters responding to made it out to be, made a strawman out of it, and went wild. I hope the OP is first in his/her class, but that's not the question I was answering. I'm giving him/her an answer about what their chances of getting the job they mentioned regardless of grades. Frankly, when you are going for a job that's what you want to know.

big_blue79 wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:The real question is what happens if they don't.
No.

Anonymous User wrote:What will it take grade-wise to have a good shot at LA?
That is the real question. I know people that had slightly-below grades at CCN with good ties and missed out on LA. It's possible below median, but I would not rate the chances as good.

What the hell? Do you not understand that my quote and what you are saying are the exact same thing? Did you read my post at all? And you're probably wrong with your assessment anyway. Being a URM, and especially a URM with ties to LA who has CPA WE and is interested in tax, dramatically changes the calculus. He has a shot with almost any grades. And a good shot with grades of 3.0 or better, especially if he goes for the joint LLM in Tax--which he should (that will give him an extra summer to work for a firm and it will make employers more lenient on him in regards to GPA). That none of you have mentioned any of that means that you are missing some really important factors. What's going to matter big time for OP is their interviewing ability, networking ability, and willingness to go to minority job fairs.

And to the mod going into a dick swinging contest with undoing my anonymous quotes: If I want to post anonymously because I'm getting stalker messages I can do that. I really don't' give a damn what your personal opinion is. If someone doesn't want to deal with that sort of thing they shouldn't have to. That you personally have an issue with me and that being your basis for undoing the anonymity is a real bitch move.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:07 pm

At CLS, a 3.0 means you were below median in every class that you took. It's a really bad GPA, a few of my friends were in the 3.1-2 region and had trouble finding anything. Also, the entire conversation above is ridiculous. Nobody is assuming it's "easy" to get above median at a top school, it doesn't really matter what the math is, and frankly OP is just wondering where (s)he needs to be in the class to have a shot. The answer is "above median" because after that, the only other categories are "slightly below median" and "fucked."

HemholtztheBitch · Post by **HemholtztheBitch** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:At CLS, a 3.0 means you were below median in every class that you took. It's a really bad GPA, a few of my friends were in the 3.1-2 region and had trouble finding anything. Also, the entire conversation above is ridiculous. Nobody is assuming it's "easy" to get above median at a top school, it doesn't really matter what the math is, and frankly OP is just wondering where (s)he needs to be in the class to have a shot. The answer is "above median" because after that, the only other categories are "slightly below median" and "fucked."

So what? Contrary to what this website would have you to believe it happens to people all the time (getting below median in every class). And that people are still focusing on how easy it is to land a certain rank is unreal. That was just a quick comment on something. The main point was that, OBVIOUSLY, and that's the question I was answering, was what chances the OP has, WITH THEIR credentials, at getting the job they desire.

And quite frankly you are dead wrong on the bolded. I have some very useful personal experience with this topic that I was going to post (ie GPA school rank and getting a firm job, regardless of how bad/good one's grades are) that heavily contradicts your claim. But since some small dick mod wants to play games, I won't post it. OP, all I will say is this, ignore those who say that you cannot get the sort of job that you described if you get bad grades. They are WRONG. I would go so far as to say that, with your profile and WE, even with bad grades you are still likely to get the job that you described. Good luck!

Post by **Corsair** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:32 pm

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:57 pm

At Chicago with sold ties you need top 80% and something special (work experience, personality, looks, strongly articulated interest in a needed practice area, ivy ug, same ug as interviewer, special race, foreign language, first or last interview, funny story). If you have nothing special about you, no aspergers, and get at least 25 ca screeners, I would say top 50 percent.

Old Gregg · Post by **Old Gregg** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:28 pm

This is the best thread I've ever read.

Renzo · Post by **Renzo** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:06 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
A better answer to your question is that you will probably be fine (assuming you are a decent interviewer) as long as you get a 3.0 or higher (or whatever the equivalent is from Chicago).

Do you know how fucking hard it would be not to get a 3.0 at NYU/CLS (since their curve is almost identical)? You're talking worse than bottom 10%.

TaipeiMort · Post by **TaipeiMort** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:10 pm

Renzo wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
A better answer to your question is that you will probably be fine (assuming you are a decent interviewer) as long as you get a 3.0 or higher (or whatever the equivalent is from Chicago).
Do you know how fucking hard it would be not to get a 3.0 at NYU/CLS (since their curve is almost identical)? You're talking worse than bottom 10%.

You would need a 176.

Renzo · Post by **Renzo** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:15 pm

TaipeiMort wrote:
Renzo wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
A better answer to your question is that you will probably be fine (assuming you are a decent interviewer) as long as you get a 3.0 or higher (or whatever the equivalent is from Chicago).
Do you know how fucking hard it would be not to get a 3.0 at NYU/CLS (since their curve is almost identical)? You're talking worse than bottom 10%.
You would need a 176.

If you're trolling me, it's a 180 poast.

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