Bidding strategy for loyola patent interview program Forum

[Big Shrimpin]

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[270910]

true, disco, thats kind of what I figured...how did others write the job yet to start on the resume? date, description, etc...? like expected summer 2010, and "will be doing x" or something similar?

I think the credited response it to list the job, date, title, and nothing else. They'll figure out that you can't have a meaningful job description of anything before you've actually started it, and if they want the details they'll need an updated resume or to ask at an interview.

I likewise see no reason to put the word 'expected'. You put "Summer 2010 - Prof So And So - Research Assistant" and they will receive everything they need to know about your situation without ambiguity. You'll just make your resume needlessly busy if you start doing shit like "Summer 2010 (May-August expected) - Prof So And So - Research Assistant - Will help Prof So And So analyze the difference between wasting an RA's time photocopying and wasting an RA's time hunting for case law that doesn't actually exist"

[Leeroy Jenkins]

true, disco, thats kind of what I figured...how did others write the job yet to start on the resume? date, description, etc...? like expected summer 2010, and "will be doing x" or something similar?

Edit: It is my understanding that it is generally not a good idea to put GPA percentage on the resume if you're not in the top 10% or so. Since employers have GPA preferences, and assuming one has a GPA probably right outside top 10%, does anybody think that putting it on the resume would be helpful/hurtful? Thanks.

Second Edit: Thanks again, disco--good stuff as always.

From the LPIP Instructions: "All students must include their GPA and Class Rank (if available) for both their law school and undergraduate/graduate institutions on their resume." This was bolded.

[dreman510]

true, disco, thats kind of what I figured...how did others write the job yet to start on the resume? date, description, etc...? like expected summer 2010, and "will be doing x" or something similar?

Edit: It is my understanding that it is generally not a good idea to put GPA percentage on the resume if you're not in the top 10% or so. Since employers have GPA preferences, and assuming one has a GPA probably right outside top 10%, does anybody think that putting it on the resume would be helpful/hurtful? Thanks.

Second Edit: Thanks again, disco--good stuff as always.

From the LPIP Instructions: "All students must include their GPA and Class Rank (if available) for both their law school and undergraduate/graduate institutions on their resume." This was bolded.

True dat. I have no undergrad rank, nor do I have law school ranking after first semester...do some schools rank after 1 semester?

[Leeroy Jenkins]

True dat. I have no undergrad rank, nor do I have law school ranking after first semester...do some schools rank after 1 semester?

yea...like...all of them except for YHS

[270910]

True dat. I have no undergrad rank, nor do I have law school ranking after first semester...do some schools rank after 1 semester?

yea...like...all of them except for YHS

Fine-tooth ranking gets more common as you go down the totem poll, but it is my understanding that most top/national school don't do ordinal ranking at all, least of all after 1L - the closest they come are cutoffs for certain classes of honors.

[rayiner]

True dat. I have no undergrad rank, nor do I have law school ranking after first semester...do some schools rank after 1 semester?

yea...like...all of them except for YHS

Fine-tooth ranking gets more common as you go down the totem poll, but it is my understanding that most top/national school don't do ordinal ranking at all, least of all after 1L - the closest they come are cutoffs for certain classes of honors.

No T14 ranks and I don't think any T30 does either.

[dreman510]

Hmph, im not a T1, and they dont rank after first semester...

[Leeroy Jenkins]

No T14 ranks and I don't think any T30 does either.

not even percentile cutoffs? bc when people say 'rank' that's what I immediately think of; and im pretty sure most schools do that

[Big Shrimpin]

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[dreman510]

No rank here either--but the registrar releases the number and % of the 1L class that falls into each grade-letter (e.g. x% of the class got an "A" gpa which is ~4-3.8, y% for "A-" which is ~3.79-3.5, etc...)--so judging by your gpa and % of students with that same letter grade gpa, you can sort of figure out, probably within a confidence level of +/-2.5%, what your class rank is... It is by no means a simple fraction, but the registrar either won't release/doesn't have class rank data.

Seeing as how some employers prefer top 50%, 35%, whatever... I'd assume such a guess could at least help an applicant make a preliminary cut while firms are sorting through thousands of resumes to select for interviews.

But then again, I'm not in the top 5% at my T2 so I probably won't get any interviews anyways. lol.

I can definitely figure it out (it was confirmed for me off the record that I fall within top 10%), but the school doesnt release any sort of ranking or cut off. Should I still put the ranking on?

[270910]

Do not EVER put an unofficial ranking on your transcript. It looks bad and you might be wrong.

Employers screen zillions of resumes in the legal sector, they know much better than you how your grades stack up. Leave it to them.

[Big Shrimpin]

okay, let me see if i can harass the registrar into giving up the information

[dreman510]

Do not EVER put an unofficial ranking on your transcript. It looks bad and you might be wrong.

Employers screen zillions of resumes in the legal sector, they know much better than you how your grades stack up. Leave it to them.

figured...

[270910]

okay, let me see if i can harass the registrar into giving up the information

I feel like you don't get it. Either your school ranks, or it doesn't*. You can't trick, sweet talk, blackmail, or bribe them into giving you your ranking. It's not like they only give out rankings TO THE ELECT or TO THE PATENT FAIR PARTICIPANTS or something like that.

Even if they told it to you, it would still be unofficial - because your school doesn't rank. It's a collective decision, not an individual one.

*This is TLS, so I have to cover all of the bases: some schools will release rankings information only for clerkship applicants, and there may be one or two other exceptions to the above general rule.

[rayiner]

No T14 ranks and I don't think any T30 does either.

not even percentile cutoffs? bc when people say 'rank' that's what I immediately think of; and im pretty sure most schools do that

Some T14s have very loose percentile cut-offs (eg: GULC gives out top 15% and top 1/3 after 1L), but most don't tell you anything at all. Here at NU we don't even know what the median is precisely much less our class rank, although we can estimate very roughly based on at graduation honors + guessing at the amount of grade inflation after 1L.

[Big Shrimpin]

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[Leeroy Jenkins]

No T14 ranks and I don't think any T30 does either.

not even percentile cutoffs? bc when people say 'rank' that's what I immediately think of; and im pretty sure most schools do that

Some T14s have very loose percentile cut-offs (eg: GULC gives out top 15% and top 1/3 after 1L), but most don't tell you anything at all. Here at NU we don't even know what the median is precisely much less our class rank, although we can estimate very roughly based on at graduation honors + guessing at the amount of grade inflation after 1L.

How are you going to deal with the firms giving grade cutoffs?

[270910]

No T14 ranks and I don't think any T30 does either.

not even percentile cutoffs? bc when people say 'rank' that's what I immediately think of; and im pretty sure most schools do that

Some T14s have very loose percentile cut-offs (eg: GULC gives out top 15% and top 1/3 after 1L), but most don't tell you anything at all. Here at NU we don't even know what the median is precisely much less our class rank, although we can estimate very roughly based on at graduation honors + guessing at the amount of grade inflation after 1L.

How are you going to deal with the firms giving grade cutoffs?

Do not try to achieve the grade cutoff. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.

There is no grade cut off.

Then you'll see, that it is not the grade cutoff you must make, it is only yourself.

[wiseowl]

No T14 ranks and I don't think any T30 does either.

not even percentile cutoffs? bc when people say 'rank' that's what I immediately think of; and im pretty sure most schools do that

Some T14s have very loose percentile cut-offs (eg: GULC gives out top 15% and top 1/3 after 1L), but most don't tell you anything at all. Here at NU we don't even know what the median is precisely much less our class rank, although we can estimate very roughly based on at graduation honors + guessing at the amount of grade inflation after 1L.

How are you going to deal with the firms giving grade cutoffs?

You apply, then let the firm decide if you meet the cutoff. It's all arbitrary anyway.
Most firms at least have lists of what the median is at each school.
If your school doesn't officially rank, put your GPA only.

[Anonymous User]

Note that for some schools which don't rank after first semester you can put that you were on Dean's List (often the top 10 or 15%). At my school that's even listed on the unofficial transcript.

As for Law Review, yeah, I'm not sure why they stress that so much, I suspect because the job descriptions are from their fall OCI by which time all of us *will* know. You'll even know by Jul 29th, so that might be a nice bonus in the interview, "BTW, I made law review and my actual ranking is (x)."

[Big Shrimpin]

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[Leeroy Jenkins]

Does anybody have an opinion about PLIP's suggestion (per materials from that "webinar") that a 2-page resume could be beneficial? I'd assume that would especially apply to those with extensive experience/advanced degrees?

Maybe if you had like, 5 years of work experience or published a lot of shit

[Big Shrimpin]

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[dreman510]

What about the webinar suggestion of putting your undergrad coursework on your resume (since there are no transcripts now)?