UChicago OCI 2013 Forum

[Mad Hatter]

In an effort to get myself off the collective shitlist, and to help future bidders, here is a listing of Chicago firms by # of 2013 SA spots, per NALP:

42 Sidley
37 Kirkland
30 DLA (Multi-office, so useless)
28 McDermott (Multi-office, so useless)
27 Mayer
22 Skadden
20 Jenner
18 Dentons (Multi-office, apparently actually only 2)
17 Katten
14 Winston
13 Chapman
13 Latham
13 Schiff
11 Jones Day
7 Reed Smith
7 Ropes
7 Vedder
6 Foley
6 Goldberg
5 Baker
5 Perkins
4 Drinker
4 Edwards
4 Greenberg
3 Barack
3 Faegre
2 Bryan Cave
2 Holland
2 Morgan Lewis
2 Paul Hastings
2 Proskauer

[Emma.]

In an effort to get myself off the collective shitlist, and to help future bidders, here is a listing of Chicago firms by # of 2013 SA spots, per NALP:

51 Kirkland
42 Sidley
27 Mayer
22 Skadden
20 Jenner
18 Dentons
17 Katten
14 Winston
13 Chapman
13 Latham
11 Jones Day
7 Reed Smith
7 Ropes
6 Foley
6 Goldberg
5 Baker
4 Drinker
4 Edwards
4 Greenberg
3 Barack
3 Faegre
2 Bryan Cave
2 Holland
2 Morgan Lewis
2 Paul Hastings
2 Proskauer

Damn, that's rough. ~300 SA slots in the whole city.

[Helmholtz]

In an effort to get myself off the collective shitlist, and to help future bidders, here is a listing of Chicago firms by # of 2013 SA spots, per NALP:

51 Kirkland

Not sure about any of the other numbers, but this isn't right. Kirkland-Chicago has 37 summer associates this year according to NALP.

edit: looks like it's 51 for Kirkland-NY

[Helmholtz]

In an effort to get myself off the collective shitlist, and to help future bidders, here is a listing of Chicago firms by # of 2013 SA spots, per NALP:

51 Kirkland

Not sure about any of the other numbers, but this isn't right. Kirkland has 37 summer associates this year according to NALP.

[Mad Hatter]

Weird, 51 is what I had on my spreadsheet...

EDIT: I ran off the NY Office number. Changed for correct office.

[Haymarket]

Fun fact: the size of the summer class of Sullivan & Cromwell in New York is equal to 1/3rd the total number of SA spots at Chicago firms.

[Mad Hatter]

Fun fact: the size of the summer class of Sullivan & Cromwell in New York is equal to 1/3rd the total number of SA spots at Chicago firms.

Same for David Polk, Cleary, and Cravath.

[Mad Hatter]

For all you New Yorkers:

125 Sullivan
125 Davis
98 Cleary
93 Cravath
81 Paul Weiss
73 Skadden
69 Milbank
65 Debevoise
63 Simpson
53 Weil
51 Cahill
51 Kirkland
40 Shearling
39 Gibson
39 Willkie
36 Latham
30 DLA (multi office)
29 White
28 Ropes
26 Sidley
26 Wachtell
25 Cadwalader
23 Wilmer
22 Jones Day
21 Kaye
21 Linklaters
20 Allen Ovary
20 Fried
19 Freshfields
18 Dentons
18 Kramer
17 clifford chance
17 Dechert
17 Mayer
17 Proskauer
16 Chadbourne
16 OMM
14 Hogan
13 Covington
11 Paul Hastings
11 Akin
11 Goodwin
11 Morgan Lewis
10 Bingham
10 Greenberg
10 Katten
10 Orrick
9 Pillsbury
8 Alston
8 Arnold
8 Reed Smith
7 Jenner
7 K&L Gates
7 MoFo
7 WInston
5 Baker McKenzie
5 Baker Botts
5 Bracewell
5 SPALDING!!!
4 Arent Fox
4 Blank Rome
4 Bryan Cave
4 Cooley
4 Crowell

If you're bidding on NY firms with less than 4 SA spots, you're doing it wrong.

[RodneyRuxin]

Great info, thank you (sincerely)

[Anonymous User]

Do any former bidders have an idea where the lowest place the V2-10 can to be bid to feel confident about getting all of them?

And then re: the order to bid them, assuming one doesn't eliminate Latham or Weil for layoff reasons, should it be:
Kirkland, Latham, Weil (Low interview slots)
DPW, Simpson, Skadden, Cleary (More interview slots in order of lowest callback selectivity)
SullCrom, Cravath (More selective)


Not saying they need to be bid as a block either, but that is a good chunk of the NY slots right there so I don't want to miss out on any.

Still curious about this.

[ellewoods110]

In an effort to get myself off the collective shitlist, and to help future bidders, here is a listing of Chicago firms by # of 2013 SA spots, per NALP:

42 Sidley
37 Kirkland
28 McDermott (Multi-Office, so useless)
27 Mayer
22 Skadden
20 Jenner
18 Dentons
17 Katten
14 Winston
13 Chapman
13 Latham
13 Schiff
11 Jones Day
7 Reed Smith
7 Ropes
7 Vedder
6 Foley
6 Goldberg
5 Baker
5 Perkins
4 Drinker
4 Edwards
4 Greenberg
3 Barack
3 Faegre
2 Bryan Cave
2 Holland
2 Morgan Lewis
2 Paul Hastings
2 Proskauer

Some of these totals must be firm wide... Dentons for example only has 2 in Chicago. Big difference between 18 and 2. (plus a 1L)

[Anonymous User]

As an FYI (that is still just essentially a drop in the bucket), K&E Chicago fucked up their yield predictions this past year and would have taken 10ish more people if the acceptances were there.

[Mad Hatter]

Some of these totals must be firm wide... Dentons for example only has 2 in Chicago. Big difference between 18 and 2. (plus a 1L)

It's a Chicago-only form, but their Phoenix form also says 18, so yeah I suspect it's firm-wide. I'll note it.

Also, I'm happy to add any I've missed.

[Haymarket]

In thinking about this thread's 2Ls, I remembered a meme that a now-graduated Chicago student once posted. It merits reposting.

[Anonymous User]

177.9, no work experience, secondary journal, ties to Chicago

Am I considered competitive for K&E/Sidley? How high should I rank them? Am I considered competitive for most other big Chicago firms?

Also, is it safe to bid Chicago only, or do I need to add a secondary market?

Thanks!

[Emma.]

177.9, no work experience, secondary journal, ties to Chicago

Am I considered competitive for K&E/Sidley? How high should I rank them? Am I considered competitive for most other big Chicago firms?

Also, is it safe to bid Chicago only, or do I need to add a secondary market?

Thanks!

You should add a secondary market.

[Anonymous User]

In thinking about this thread's 2Ls, I remembered a meme that a now-graduated Chicago student once posted. It merits reposting.

So, GPA>181, LR. My plan had been to bid almost exclusively Chicago. Is that risky on the off chance that I interview poorly that week, or should that be fine?

[Anonymous User]

177.9, no work experience, secondary journal, ties to Chicago

Am I considered competitive for K&E/Sidley? How high should I rank them? Am I considered competitive for most other big Chicago firms?

Also, is it safe to bid Chicago only, or do I need to add a secondary market?

Thanks!

You should add a secondary market.

If I am strongly against being in New York, what other market should I consider (I have no other ties)?

[Mad Hatter]

In thinking about this thread's 2Ls, I remembered a meme that a now-graduated Chicago student once posted. It merits reposting.

So, GPA>181, LR. My plan had been to bid almost exclusively Chicago. Is that risky on the off chance that I interview poorly that week, or should that be fine?

I think you're okay dude. You should have no problem landing at least one, if not more, of K&E/Sidley/Skadden/Mayer/Jenner/Latham.

Edit: that having been said, WLRK/W&C/V5s/Irell/Munger would be pretty sweet fallbacks, and you don't need to bid them terribly high.

[2013applicant]

In thinking about this thread's 2Ls, I remembered a meme that a now-graduated Chicago student once posted. It merits reposting.

So, GPA>181, LR. My plan had been to bid almost exclusively Chicago. Is that risky on the off chance that I interview poorly that week, or should that be fine?

PM me.

[Emma.]

In thinking about this thread's 2Ls, I remembered a meme that a now-graduated Chicago student once posted. It merits reposting.

So, GPA>181, LR. My plan had been to bid almost exclusively Chicago. Is that risky on the off chance that I interview poorly that week, or should that be fine?

You'll be fine. Just try not to be a dick at Booth when callbacks start rolling in. Also, turn down callbacks quickly at firms you aren't seriously considering, it might create space for one of your classmates.

PM me if you want specifics about what to expect with your GPA.

[Emma.]

177.9, no work experience, secondary journal, ties to Chicago

Am I considered competitive for K&E/Sidley? How high should I rank them? Am I considered competitive for most other big Chicago firms?

Also, is it safe to bid Chicago only, or do I need to add a secondary market?

Thanks!

You should add a secondary market.

If I am strongly against being in New York, what other market should I consider (I have no other ties)?

A job in NY is better than no job. If you seriously have no ties outside of Chicago I'd recommend throwing a few bids at large summer class NY offices no matter how strongly you are against NY.

[choculamaviva]

Class of 2013 here. I will offer a bit of OCI bidding advice. I had fairly good luck, landed about 30 interviews, 21 callbacks, was 12/13 for offers from callbacks before I got the offer from my #1, at which point I cancelled the rest. GPA was above 180, no journal because I didn't do the writing competition. All my rejections were either because I interviewed for a small market office to which I had no ties (Yeah! I like North Carolina! Why not?) or for a couple of the most competitive firms that basically require LR, i.e. W&C, Keker. Most of this advice should not be rocket science.

1. Vault rankings do no correspond to how competitive a firm is. Skadden, S&C, and Simpson Thatcher need numerous nice warm bodies to fill out their NY offices. These firms are not as selective as you might think, i.e. if you're over 178 you're in the running. That being said, I think that people who base their choices on vault ranking are foolish. The pay is the same, with a couple exceptions, and the lifestyle could be much worse. Enjoy bragging to your classmates that you're gonna work at a "V5" until you're working those hours and realize no one cares or even knows who these firms are outside of a little microcosm.

2. Bids should be based on your top reasonable choices in your preferred markets + a number of (probably NYC) safeties. Rankings are of course a combination of your impression of how desirable a firm is to classmates and how many slots they have for interviews. Safeties are firms that take a large # of associates and aren't that grade selective. Be sure to include some of these decently high up in your bids, especially if your preferred market is either small and desirable, i.e. Portland/Denver/Seattle, or just competitive, i.e. DC. NALP is a good source for info re the # of associates hire. The OCS list, unless it has changed is fairly lousy for determining selectivity. Do they now include the median GPA for callbacks? They should. The high GPA tells you nothing and the low could be an anomaly. If they still don't include the median, get in to see an OCS person to discuss privately to get a more accurate picture. I would also note that I got a look at last year's callback report and spotted 3 errors even with my limited knowledge, i.e. 3 firms where I got a callback the previous year but nevertheless reported that the high GPA for callbacks was below my GPA. It made me suspicious of the reliability of the entire list.

3. Except for a couple firms, LR makes very little difference. If you wrote-on, bid conservatively. I did not do the writing competition and am so happy I didn't (not dissing LR, just wasn't an interest of mine). I enjoyed my 2L/3L years and still got my #1 job.

4. Enjoy the process. You can learn a lot about different areas of the law through these interviews and may end up finding a practice area that interests you.

[Emma.]

Class of 2013 here. I will offer a bit of OCI bidding advice. I had fairly good luck, landed about 30 interviews, 21 callbacks, was 12/13 for offers from callbacks before I got the offer from my #1, at which point I cancelled the rest. GPA was above 180, no journal because I didn't do the writing competition. All my rejections were either because I interviewed for a small market office to which I had no ties (Yeah! I like North Carolina! Why not?) or for a couple of the most competitive firms that basically require LR, i.e. W&C, Keker. Most of this advice should not be rocket science.

1. Vault rankings do no correspond to how competitive a firm is. Skadden, S&C, and Simpson Thatcher need numerous nice warm bodies to fill out their NY offices. These firms are not as selective as you might think, i.e. if you're over 178 you're in the running. That being said, I think that people who base their choices on vault ranking are foolish. The pay is the same, with a couple exceptions, and the lifestyle could be much worse. Enjoy bragging to your classmates that you're gonna work at a "V5" until you're working those hours and realize no one cares or even knows who these firms are outside of a little microcosm.

2. Bids should be based on your top reasonable choices in your preferred markets + a number of (probably NYC) safeties. Rankings are of course a combination of your impression of a desirable a firm is to classmates and how many slots they have for interviews. Safeties are firms that take a large # of associates and aren't that grade selective. Be sure to include some of these decently high up in your bids, especially if your preferred market is either small and desirable, i.e. Portland/Denver/Seattle, or just competitive, i.e. DC. NALP is a good source for the # of associates hire. The OCS list, unless it has changed is fairly lousy for determining selectivity. Do they now include the median for callbacks? They should. The high GPA tells you nothing and the low could be an anomaly. If they still don't include the median, get in to see an OCS person to discuss privately to get a more accurate picture.

3. Except for a couple firms, LR makes very little difference. If you wrote-on, bid conservatively. I did not do the writing competition and am so happy I didn't. I enjoyed my 2L/3L years and still got my #1 job.

4. Enjoy the process. You can learn a lot about different areas of the law through these interviews and may end up finding a practice area that interests you.

Awesome advice. Especially the bolded.

[Anonymous User]

Individual info: 178.3, no WE, secondary journal, strong ties to Chicago and nowhere else, IP

Three questions:
Is S&C worth a bid?
How high do big NY safeties, e.g. Cadwalader, have to go in a bidlist?
Will I regret focusing too much on the Chicago market?

Any and all help is appreciated