Berkeley $$$ or CLS Sticker Forum

[Lawlasser]

Not sure what I want to do career-wise, though I imagine big law and maybe clerking if I like litigation more.

From California, but living in NYC intrigues me.
Does anyone still use this website?

[talons2250]

Unless you strongly prefer to be in New York City for the three years of law school, then Berkeley. Employment outcomes at both schools are too similar and, even if Columbia does have an edge (it is generally thought of as more prestigious by a millimeter by most people outside California but not in a way that actually matters for anything), that edge would not override the scholarship money Berkeley is offering.

[manwithplan]

Columbia students have life on easy mode, assuming that they don't care about getting an elite outcome like a federal clerkship or a more selective biglaw firm. It is commonplace not to read for classes (and just use outlines). I think the appeal of Columbia is two-fold: first, it is an Ivy League school; second, you can coast, again assuming the proviso above. If you want a clerkship, you will have to grind at either place. But there is no question that getting biglaw at CLS is easier, statistically, but then that will only matter if you are coasting, since my understanding is that a solid student at Berkeley should get biglaw. Now, I think most people would take their chances with Berkeley because even with biglaw, those loans are painful, assuming you are not rich. Personally, I would do the same. Columbia makes sense if you are rich (then why not, for the prestige) OR if you don't want to try in law school and are happy with any NYC biglaw. Columbia is a very expensive biglaw factory. You pay insane tuition for an 80% shot at biglaw.

[The Lsat Airbender]

Columbia students have life on easy mode, assuming that they don't care about getting an elite outcome like a federal clerkship or a more selective biglaw firm. It is commonplace not to read for classes (and just use outlines).

This is generally true of other T13 schools including Berkeley.

[talons2250]

Columbia students have life on easy mode, assuming that they don't care about getting an elite outcome like a federal clerkship or a more selective biglaw firm. It is commonplace not to read for classes (and just use outlines). I think the appeal of Columbia is two-fold: first, it is an Ivy League school; second, you can coast, again assuming the proviso above. If you want a clerkship, you will have to grind at either place. But there is no question that getting biglaw at CLS is easier, statistically, but then that will only matter if you are coasting, since my understanding is that a solid student at Berkeley should get biglaw. Now, I think most people would take their chances with Berkeley because even with biglaw, those loans are painful, assuming you are not rich. Personally, I would do the same. Columbia makes sense if you are rich (then why not, for the prestige) OR if you don't want to try in law school and are happy with any NYC biglaw. Columbia is a very expensive biglaw factory. You pay insane tuition for an 80% shot at biglaw.

Pretty much everything you've written here except the ivy league part also applies to Berkeley. Regarding biglaw, it seems very unlikely to me that the same caliber student at both CLS and Berkeley would have materially different biglaw outcomes. And even the ivy league thing is not an actual, tangible benefit. Cornell Law is ivy and Stanford Law isn't, but no one thinks Cornell is more prestigious.

[nealric]

CLS is a great option. I didn't go there, but my spouse did and we lived on campus housing, so I sort of feel like I attended. However, I'd probably still go with Berkeley given the huge cost delta. The placement difference is relatively small between the two. You can also ask if CLS will offer any money.

[anymouseqwerty]

Take a hard look at the cost of living comparison for Columbia and Berkeley. I’d wager that even near Columbia you are going to pay ~20% more to live life as compared to Berkeley. Also, when you are a broke student, NYC is less fun than its reputation.

[VirginiaFan]

I went to a t14 for free and can't recommend it enough. It gives you so much freedom to quit biglaw or do a different career path.

[Dcc617]

This is a no brainer for Berkeley. There's literally no argument for Columbia with that cost delta

[nealric]

This is a no brainer for Berkeley. There's literally no argument for Columbia with that cost delta

I wouldn't say there's "literally no argument." If your deepest desire is to be an NYC biglaw partner, you are probably more likely to get there from Columbia. NYC placement is a bit better and you'll have a strong local alumni network as you advance in your career from which to draw clients. I personally wouldn't spend hundreds of thousands of dollars for that, but I have zero interest in being an NYC biglaw partner.

Don't get me wrong, student debt is awful while you have it, but it's a rounding error in the context of your career if you are on the upper end of the bimodal salary distribution in law. There is of course a risk you end up being pushed out of that high mode, but I think most Columbia students can stay there if that's what they want. I suppose the bigger risk is realizing after a few years that the biglaw grind isn't what you want.