Career Possibilities for Mid-Age Law Applicant Forum

[lawcouldbe]

Hi,
I’m a first-time user, and not sure if this is the appropriate session for my inquiry. However, as my concern is job-related and falls within the realm of professional advice, I hope it’s ok to post here and receive your valuable insights. Thank you very much!

My background:
1. I am a JD program applicant aiming for enrollment in fall 2025. Currently, I’m working on the LSAT after my full-time job, making steady progress, and targeting a score of 170+ (hopefully).
2. I’m in my late 30s, so if everything goes well as planned, I anticipate completing the JD program and entering the workforce in my early 40s.
3. I hold a B.Arch degree from abroad and an M.Arch degree from the U.S.
4. With approximately 10 years of experience in Architecture/Urban Design across Asia, Europe, and the U.S., I’m currently leading design process for some project components in a large architectural firm’s local office.

My concerns and disadvantages:
1. My age is an issue, and I worry about securing a decent job post-graduation even if the application goes well and I can get into an ok law school.
2. My prior work experience is not directly law-related, the only part I can think of is some involvement in communication/permitting process with the city, and some exposure to construction.
3. My educational background is also non-legal, with only a few cross-registration courses at school of government during my M.Arch studies in the University.
4. English is my second language, impacting my writing and speaking skills compared to other U.S. candidates. I am committed to improvement but acknowledge limitations.
5. I lack connections that could potentially lead to job opportunities after graduation, or bring cases to me.

My questions:
1. Considering the information provided, do you think it is feasible for me to secure employment post-graduation? Do you have people similar to my case in your workplace?
2. Is it realistic to expect to reach a salary level of $150k within three years of graduating?
3. Despite being open to initial demanding work hours (60-80 hours weekly), is it possible to achieve work-life balance after five years, taking into account family and children?
4. Given my background, is there any chance to gain admission to a T20 law school?
5. Set aside my personal interest, just to be practical for job opportunities, what areas of law would you recommend I explore?
I apologize if my questions seem “novice” or if they do not align with the typical queries here. I figure this is probably my last chance for a career path change and just want to be realistic if law could be the option.

I sincerely appreciate your time and expertise. Wishing everyone a wonderful holiday season!

[talons2250]

You have just a good a chance of getting into a top school and getting a job following graduation as anyone else. For example, this person graduated college in 1994, started NYU Law in 2014 and now works in biglaw: https://www.debevoise.com/amyzimmerman.

[crazywafflez]

1. Considering the information provided, do you think it is feasible for me to secure employment post-graduation? Do you have people similar to my case in your workplace?

Yes, it's certainly feasible. Maybe a slight disadvantage at some shops, but so long as you are not well into your 50s, you should be fine. At my previous firm, no, we didn't have any mid career jump folks. I know of one though at a comparable firm. I'm in fed govt now, and there's one person in my current office who was similar.
2. Is it realistic to expect to reach a salary level of $150k within three years of graduating?

Only if you graduate from a T14. Otherwise, unlikely.

3. Despite being open to initial demanding work hours (60-80 hours weekly), is it possible to achieve work-life balance after five years, taking into account family and children?

Not in big law (the jobs that'll pay over 150k).

4. Given my background, is there any chance to gain admission to a T20 law school?

Certainly. If you have a good GPA and a high lsat score, it's a real possibility. However, I do not believe T20 should be your goal. I think schools like Minnesota are T20s now? They do not place well in BL- others, like Vanderbilt, do.

5. Set aside my personal interest, just to be practical for job opportunities, what areas of law would you recommend I explore?

Corporate, securities, bankruptcy.

Final note- I wouldn't go to law school in your shoes. Forgoing 3 years of income, potentially taking on massive debt, for a career with a terrible work life balance where only the top 14 or so schools guarantee decent pay outcomes.
If you currently make over 6 figures, I can't really see this being a good career move for you. If you are making 60 though and your spouse makes decent money, by all means, make the leap.

[lawcouldbe]

1. Considering the information provided, do you think it is feasible for me to secure employment post-graduation? Do you have people similar to my case in your workplace?

Yes, it's certainly feasible. Maybe a slight disadvantage at some shops, but so long as you are not well into your 50s, you should be fine. At my previous firm, no, we didn't have any mid career jump folks. I know of one though at a comparable firm. I'm in fed govt now, and there's one person in my current office who was similar.
2. Is it realistic to expect to reach a salary level of $150k within three years of graduating?

Only if you graduate from a T14. Otherwise, unlikely.

3. Despite being open to initial demanding work hours (60-80 hours weekly), is it possible to achieve work-life balance after five years, taking into account family and children?

Not in big law (the jobs that'll pay over 150k).

4. Given my background, is there any chance to gain admission to a T20 law school?

Certainly. If you have a good GPA and a high lsat score, it's a real possibility. However, I do not believe T20 should be your goal. I think schools like Minnesota are T20s now? They do not place well in BL- others, like Vanderbilt, do.

5. Set aside my personal interest, just to be practical for job opportunities, what areas of law would you recommend I explore?

Corporate, securities, bankruptcy.

Final note- I wouldn't go to law school in your shoes. Forgoing 3 years of income, potentially taking on massive debt, for a career with a terrible work life balance where only the top 14 or so schools guarantee decent pay outcomes.
If you currently make over 6 figures, I can't really see this being a good career move for you. If you are making 60 though and your spouse makes decent money, by all means, make the leap.

Thank you for your comprehensive response! I now have a better understanding of the information. While I previously "imagined" that lawyers in the U.S. typically earn very high salaries, I realize that this may not always be the case, and it seems that the rate of earning growth is not necessarily rapid.

[crazywafflez]

Thank you for your comprehensive response! I now have a better understanding of the information. While I previously "imagined" that lawyers in the U.S. typically earn very high salaries, I realize that this may not always be the case, and it seems that the rate of earning growth is not necessarily rapid.
[/quote]

Happy to help. The median salary for attorneys of all stripes and ages is around the 120k mark. This includes public interest type law and big law. Nonetheless, graduates who miss the big law train generally make around 60-90k starting. I'll try and give just a few break downs below (make sure to check my work, as I'm sure I've messed up somewhere).

Let's take an example of OKC. You go to OK law and get a job offer in OKC after graduating. 1) That is a gig with the DA's office. You're offered 60k. After about 10 years, you'll be making around 100-120k. Not a bad living in OKC. 2) You start at a well respected firm in OKC. You're starting pay is around 75k. You get around 5k increases a year as well here; after about 6-8 years you are no longer getting raises, but you are up for partnership. Once you get partner (if you get it), you'll be making anywhere from 80k-250k. It really depends on how successful you are, your firm, your work flow and a myriad of other factors. 3) Personal injury firm. You start out making 60k or so. You don't get any real raises but you get bigger cuts of your settlements. Eventually, your firm will take you off a salary and you'll get paid fully on your settlements. You could make 0 bucks a year, and you could make all the way up to 500k. Really world is your oyster type, sink or swim gig.

Those are generally the 3 most common buckets. It takes attorneys quite a bit of time to breach the 120kish mark, for the most part. Of course, it's a good gig compared to most other professions, but it is not a golden ticket. Going to Tulsa law is a great ticket to the middle class. It isn't getting you rich unless you are just a killer personal injury lawyer.

[nealric]

It's helpful to understand that legal salaries are heavily bi-modal. You either make over $225k base to start, or you make around $50-60k to start, and there's not a lot of options in-between those extremes (most jobs in the middle are regional "biglaw" or "midlaw" firms that pay something less than market but still have a basically large firm business model). Federal government jobs in major metros will also start high 5 to low six figures and top out in the $150-200k range, but "honors" programs that take students straight out of law school are tough to get. The top mode is available to no more than 10-15% of new grads. Biglaw salaries are more or less fixed in major markets, and every major firm pays associates the same (although some lower-tier biglaw firms will impose bonus hurdles or compress salaries at the upper end).

https://www.biglawinvestor.com/biglaw-salary-scale/

In the biglaw bucket, you quickly progress to about $500k by the time you are a senior associate. Getting a biglaw job doesn't require connections, but it's only a likely outcome if you attend a T14 school (give or take depending on the level of certainty you want). At the average law school, only the very top handful of students will have the option of Biglaw.

As an older graduate, biglaw isn't closed off to you, but the business model is built around hiring a bunch of 25 year olds who are willing work 60+ hour weeks and to be available 24/7. There may be a few hiring partners who have some level of bias against someone who doesn't fit that mold, but the bigger issue is that most older grads tend to have more outside obligations (kids, family, health, etc.) that make it harder to put in the hours expected. Biglaw hours remain fierce even as a partner, but you get more autonomy and the salaries can become enormous (well into the 7 or even 8 figures).

A very large portion of people in biglaw drop out sometime in their associate career (either voluntarily or involuntarily). If you are looking for a combination of work life balance and good salary, in-house jobs can be the ticket. There are in-house jobs that are mostly 9-5 and pay $300k+, but they are of course sought after. It is easier to get an in-house job from either a corporate or specialty practice (i.e. employee benefits, tax, environmental) than litigation. Litigators are more likely to go to smaller firms or the government if they leave biglaw.

[nixy]

I've seen second-career candidates thrive in government jobs, where the maturity/experience is often welcomed and work-life balance isn't usually as much of an issue as in biglaw. Salary depends a lot on state vs. federal and location. You won't make $150k 3 years out of school working for the feds, but you will get to $150k (in today's dollars) probably by about 10 years out? Again, depending on location and which part of the government hires you. State government generally pays less. Benefits and vacation time in such jobs are usually excellent whether state or federal.

I actually think that there would be a lot of government jobs that would welcome someone with an architecture/urban design background, but I have no personal experience in the area so can't offer more specific suggestions. If you think of the interactions you've had to have with local entities as part of your job, I'm picturing the jobs on the other side of that.

Second-career people can also do fine completely abandoning their previous career and just starting anew (for instance, I know a bunch of former journalists who jumped ship for law b/c their industry was dying. I know one who's ended up doing some version of First Amendment law, but many just do something else entirely). So you can stand out as a strong candidate based on pre-law experience, but you can also reinvent yourself and move forward based on your law school performance and experience. Like if you decided you really wanted to do criminal law (which probably wouldn't fit your other parameters, but just as an example), you could do that based on your experience/performance in law school regardless of whether your past work experience is related. You'd just need to come up with a facially convincing reason for the switch.