Why you should consider retaking (ITT: stories about retaking and improved outcomes) Forum

[benwyatt]

ITT: people share their application outcomes pre/post retake.


Two cycles ago: I applied with a 3.3/169 and got either rejected or waitlisted everywhere except GW with $60K and CU Boulder (with a scholly I don't remember). Was trying to claw a spot at GULC at sticker from the WL.

Now: I applied with a 3.3/174 and was accepted at Columbia ($70K) (Rejected previously), UVA (WL previously), Duke ($75K) (WL previously), Michigan (WL previously), GULC ($90K) (WL previously), and WUSTL (Full Tuition) (Did not apply first time). Waitlisted at several other T-14s but decided not to ride because I was happy with Columbia.

I can't attribute it all to the retake since my apps were submitted earlier and my PS was stronger, but there's no denying the impact of the retake on these outcomes.

[pretzeltime]

Great thread idea! I want to hear more!

[benwyatt]

Great thread idea! I want to hear more!

I punted it to a few friends who are also retakers so they might drop in here!

[Bach-City]

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[Hildegard15]

Take 1: 162
After my first take I was looking at schools like University of Washington, Boston College, and UCLA. When I visited BC they encouraged me to retake, implying that while I could get in with my current score, I'd be able to get money from them with a score even two points higher. But I was skeptical about my ability to get a higher score so I resisted. The real kick in the pants came when I visited UCLA and they made it very clear that they considered my meeting with them a waste of their time with a score of 162. That convinced me not to apply that cycle and to retake the LSAT.

Cut to this cycle: applied with a 174/3.78 and the results are in my profile. I have no doubt that my LSAT score was what allowed me to have such an incredible cycle.

I was super skeptical about retaking at first because it involved more time waiting to start law school, many hours of studying, and I was convinced I couldn't score any higher. But I urge everyone not to talk themselves out of retaking. My whole legal future has changed dramatically just because of my decision to retake.

ETA: And this fall I will be attending Harvard.

[gobears!!]

Absolutely LOVE this thread idea! I will be sharing my full story in a few weeks since the retake saga continues. But in the mean time, if anyone is itching for the specifics, feel free to PM me since I know it is a tough decision.

For a general sense:

Applied two cycles ago with two sub 160 LSAT scores and a high GPA. Outcome: Waitlisted at 6 T-14 schools and UCLA, rejected at 6 other T-14 schools.

Retook and broke 160. Reapplied Outcome: got into all of the schools I was waitlisted in cycle one (less Berkeley) with money at a few. Waitlisted at 6 T-14 schools, rejected at two.

[Bearlyalive]

The first time I took the LSAT, I scored a 166. That was after taking a prep course and spending some time studying by myself over the summer. I really did not take it seriously enough, but after the course I was sitting around 171 PT average, and I thought that if I could get a 170 then I'd have a good shot of going to UVA with a decent scholly or UCLA with full.

Obviously, I scored well below my PT average the first time I took the test. A lot of people do. I was in my senior year when I got the score, and I didn't have any idea what I would do with a gap year. My family, who didn't really understand the application process (not that I knew much more than they did), was pressuring me to apply, because they thought that I could still get a good scholly at UCLA or into UVA at sticker with that score and my GPA. I very nearly let them convince me that it would be a decent idea. Obviously, this was long before I knew that TLS was a thing. I had been a community college transfer student that never quite got over the imposter syndrome, and I did not think that I could be competitive enough to shoot for the top.

Then I decided to retake anyways, took a year off, and spent the summer right after graduation studying for the LSAT like mad and volunteering a bit on the side to stay involved. My goal was to just get to a 174 PT average so I could be confident enough to go in my second time and get at least a 170, and maybe even a 172 to give me an OK shot at HLS. But I committed myself to sticking with my study plan regardless of how the PTs were going.... and they kept improving.

I sat for the LSAT again one year after taking it the first time, and I improved 14 points to a 180. Next year, I'll be joining Benwyatt at Columbia.

Seriously, give yourself the best shot at success that you can. If you scored below your PT average, or you think there's anything you could do to improve your score, it's worth the wait.

[pretzeltime]

The first time I took the LSAT, I scored a 166. That was after taking a prep course and spending some time studying by myself over the summer. I really did not take it seriously enough, but after the course I was sitting around 171 PT average, and I thought that if I could get a 170 then I'd have a good shot of going to UVA with a decent scholly or UCLA with full.

Obviously, I scored well below my PT average the first time I took the test. A lot of people do. I was in my senior year when I got the score, and I didn't have any idea what I would do with a gap year. My family, who didn't really understand the application process, was pressuring me to apply, because they thought that I could still get a good scholly at UCLA or into UVA at sticker with that score and my GPA. I very nearly let them convince me that it would be a decent idea. Obviously, this was long before I knew that TLS was a thing. I had been a community college transfer student that never quite got over the imposter syndrome, and I did not think that I could be competitive enough to shoot for the top.

Then I decided to retake anyways, took a year off, and spent the summer right after graduation studying for the LSAT like mad and volunteering a bit on the side to stay involved. My goal was to just get to a 174 PT average so I could be confident enough to go in my second time and get at least a 170, and maybe even a 172 to give me an OK shot at HLS. But I committed myself to sticking with my study plan regardless of how the PTs were going.... and they kept improving.

I sat for the LSAT again one year after taking it the first time, and I improved 14 points to a 180. Next year, I'll be joining Benwyatt at Columbia.

Seriously, give yourself the best shot at success that you can. If you scored below your PT average, or you think there's anything you could do to improve your score, it's worth the wait.

Ho-ly crap. Amazing. So inspiring.

(All of you!!)

[archipm]

Retaking made a big difference for me too. My first take I studied intermittently on my own and wasn't sure about what I wanted to do. I got a 168 and applied narrowly based on perceived geographic constraints at the time. I hadn't done a lot of research on law schools or admissions processes, and as I got closer to starting an expensive part-time program with very risky employment stats, I realized it was a bad plan and deferred, then withdrew. Took a year to do totally unrelated work, but felt drawn back to the legal field so I got another legal job to see if it was really the direction I wanted to go.

Self-studied again for my second LSAT but was more dedicated and improved to 173 (GPA 3.72). Was accepted with scholarships at CCN, Berkeley, Cornell, GULC, and several more. WL at Harvard. I was able to negotiate up to a good scholarship at U. Chicago and will be there in the fall (although I considered retaking again before my scholarship was increased!). Extremely thankful I came across TLS and did some serious research before committing to my previous plans.

[MeganB]

I'd gone from the mid-150s to scoring in the low 160s on an official test after a few months of self-study, but I knew I wanted to go to a T14 .

I re-took after taking a 2-month LSAT class (check reviews online before you invest!) and scored a 171 (3.6 GPA, non-URM). I received a significant amount of $$ from most of the T14, and this fall I'll be attending a T14 school with a full scholarship.

If in doubt, I highly recommend re-taking!

[lsatrecycles]

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[AZ123]

I got a 161 the first time I took the lsat, (which was really disappointing for me since it was well below my pt average), so I decided to retake. I ended up getting a 162 on my second try. I was so bummed, and I thought about not taking the test again since I figured that I was just destined for a score in the low-160s. I retook a third time and was able to increase to a 168, which doesn't sound like a huge increase, but that six point difference was enough for me to get a full-ride to a T14 (great gpa, non-urm). I'm so glad I ended up retaking.

[Biglaw1990]

This is my favorite thread. Seriously, you guys are rockstars. This thread should be added as a sticky, so TLSers can provide a link to this thread to posters who think they can't improve their LSAT score and/or have a better cycle.

[Single-Malt-Liquor]

158 - 162 - 170 with a 3.98 GPA

The first score was with one course, the last two scores were with another. When I applied with the first score crickets, the day after the 170 came out I got a call for an HLS interview. If you have a high GPA, you almost certainly have what it takes to score above 165. Don't. Waste. That. G. P. A.

[foxes]

my ug gpa was pretty dismal, so i knew i needed a pretty high lsat to have a shot at the t14. my very first pt was a 155, and i was terrified i'd never even get close to getting an lsat high enough to net me a good school + some money. i studied for about a year on and off while working full time and slowly worked my way to pting in the high 160s to low 170s. i figured that was good enough and sat for the test, hoping i would somehow score near my highest pt. i freaked out a little and ended up bombing games, but somehow still netted 170. i was going to stop there, and just give apps a shot, but then i realized that it was stupid to leave so many points on the table (my errors were almost entirely in games). if i scored a few more points, i thought i might have a shot at a higher ranked t14 or even ccn.

i really put my head down and studied again, probably for about two-three months, basically drilling games whenever i had any spare time after work. took the test again, and ended up with a 179. i blanketed the t14 with apps after that. i ended up with multiple full rides/huge schollys but eventually chose to go to H. now that im in school, im so thankful that i retook my lsat.

tl;dr i really rec you try again, even if you think you're maxed out.

[hunt godlink]

Please don't quote.

Long story short in chronological order: reverse splitter with a 3.9+ GPA and a mountain of problems with standardized tests, first two takes were in the high 140s, applied and got rejected to virtually everything anyway (wasted hundreds of dollars doing so), almost settled for Minnesota with a 60k scholarship, discovered TLS, broke 160 a year later, got accepted into a few t14 schools, and will be happily attending a top law school this fall

[gsy987]

I also have a pretty dramatic jump story! Backstory is that I was coming w/ a mediocrish (3.3) GPA from a state school.

So the first time I took the LSAT was in Feb of 2015. This was kind of a rough period of my life... I had a tough living situation, I didn't enjoy my study technique (I was just using the Powerscore textbooks and nothing else), and I was on a performance review at work. All in all, shitty situation, and my score showed, as I ended up with a 158 that was having me look at schools like George Mason, Brooklyn and the like (Wisconsin was my reach school.) I could've applied that cycle still and probably ended up with no money from George Mason, which would've been a shitty outcome.

Second time I took the LSAT was in October of 2015. I was in a much better place mentally: I was doing much better at my job, I had a single apartment where I could study, and I finally found a better and more in-depth study method (the Blueprint online course.) As a result of that, I was able to jump to a 169 and I'm now going to the University of Michigan on a half-tuition scholarship!

So I think my story, at least to me, says a few things:
1. Life situations matter when you're taking the LSAT. If you're exhausted/stressed/etc, that can absolutely hurt your performance.
2. Large jumps are possible, though I think 11 point jumps are usually pretty rare. (In my case, I always figured that a 158 seemed like a low score, and it was significantly below my diagnostic scores.)
3. If you do poorly the first time, I think switching up your study methods can be valuable. Lots of people have had success with Powerscore, but it didn't work for me, and switching to Blueprint really helped me out a lot.

[goldenflash19]

Took 3 times: 161, 164, 167. - was looking at a ton of debt at USC.

174 after listening to TLS, taking 2 years off, using noodleyone's guide, and retaking. Got into S

I was initially hesitant but taking time off was the best decision of my life. It sucked at first- countless people told me "Oh, I'm sure you'll pass the LSATS next time" and "Akron is great, just go there, and quit being a snob" but things got so much better. I got some great life experiences with the time off, too, and would recommend it for everyone, regardless of LSAT score.

[WaitersIsland]

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[Stardust84]

I went from 154 PT to 173 on actual test after 60+ practice tests and blind review over five months of study. Not a retake story, however the improvement speaks to the merits of a retake. Had I gone in after a month of study I might not have cracked 160. It took me months to master LG section.

[benwyatt]

All the stories ITT:

[alexau]

Ok this is something that I have been feeling since I enter in the "Power Law of Attraction" forum last year. I cant denied that it have good discussions, but something that I cant handle is some "Success stories". These people insist in put LOA tests as the cup of coffee as success stories, and it isnt.
Sometimes I wonder if someone REALLY reach big dreams with LOA...

[stego]

Ok this is something that I have been feeling since I enter in the "Power Law of Attraction" forum last year. I cant denied that it have good discussions, but something that I cant handle is some "Success stories". These people insist in put LOA tests as the cup of coffee as success stories, and it isnt.
Sometimes I wonder if someone REALLY reach big dreams with LOA...

What is this?

[Ohiobumpkin]

Ok this is something that I have been feeling since I enter in the "Power Law of Attraction" forum last year. I cant denied that it have good discussions, but something that I cant handle is some "Success stories". These people insist in put LOA tests as the cup of coffee as success stories, and it isnt.
Sometimes I wonder if someone REALLY reach big dreams with LOA...

Not sure what the heck you're trying to say, but it sounds negative, so shut it and go away.

[Necho2]

Ok so to get this threat back on track....

Take #1= 166, which since I had a 3.9x GPA and part-URM, meant I still had a decent shot at some pretty nice options.

Take #2 (after 3 more months of disciplined studying)= 171

Wound up going to Chicago with a Ruby (and in everywhere else except Yale), which given my goals and probable outcomes, is pretty close to the best situation for me going forward.

W/o the retake, maybe I claw my way into HLS at full freight, or somewhere in CCN with a ton of debt. So definitely by far the right decision for me!