Minnesota class of 2011 Forum

[prospect14]

Hey guys,

So, I just got the last of my OCI interviews scheduled. If you would like to know what the oci and interview prospects are like, give me a pm. I can talk specifically about trying to return to California for jobs if you are from there, and I can talk about trying to get a job in Minneapolis if you have no connection other than going to the law school. I would post more information here (and I still might), but just pm me for now. I will say it was a LOT easier for me to get interviews at great California firms than it was for me to get interviews at mediocre Minneapolis firms, and my GPA puts me in the top 15-20%.

Well, um, isn't that due to the fact that CA has way way more law firms in general (not just BIGLAW) than MN?

In the Twin Cities, you basically only have Faegre or Dorsey as big firm choices, the rest are midlaw (in terms of MN) or mediocre small firms.

MN's legal market isn't that big to begin with.

[bocifious]

I'm talking about interviews through the school, not just interviews in general. There are way more minneapolis firms interviewing through OCI than there are california firms, even when you count the consortiums.

[prospect14]

Well of course at OCI at the 'U' would have mainly MN firms, I mean only the top of the class at MN would have the chance/option of exploring the legal market outside of MN. People mostly go to the 'U' because they know they want to practice in MN.

But like your other post in the Law Student forum, you are searching outside of the OCI avenue. There are way more firms in CA you can carpet-bomb your resume to than in MN.

[seancs14]

Well of course at OCI at the 'U' would have mainly MN firms, I mean only the top of the class at MN would have the chance/option of exploring the legal market outside of MN. People mostly go to the 'U' because they know they want to practice in MN.

But like your other post in the Law Student forum, you are searching outside of the OCI avenue. There are way more firms in CA you can carpet-bomb your resume to than in MN.

I think he/she is saying that of the interviews he got through OCI, it was much easier to get interviews with the fewer CA firms that participate in OCI than it was to get interviews from the good MN firms since som any U of M students want to stay in MN so the competition for the better MN firms is much higher.

I think he/she is excluding any interviews achieved through non-OCI means.

[prospect14]

I think he/she is saying that of the interviews he got through OCI, it was much easier to get interviews with the fewer CA firms that participate in OCI than it was to get interviews from the good MN firms since som any U of M students want to stay in MN so the competition for the better MN firms is much higher.

I think he/she is excluding any interviews achieved through non-OCI means.

I already mentioned the fact that most U students are looking to stay in MN, that probably helped bocifious (along with solid credentials) get interviews with CA firms since probably a lot of the other students weren't even bidding on CA firms or ranked them pretty low.

[bocifious]

That is basically correct. The main point I was trying to make is that I didn't get interviews with several firms in the city where my credentials make me an above average candidate. When I asked my career services why this happened, I was told that a lot of the Minneapolis firms are wary of hiring out of state students with no previous connection to Minnesota (which I thought was ridiculous; 3 years and $100,000 in tuition should be plenty of a connection). On the other hand, I got interviews with some great (V5) California firms where I thought I would be dinged at. So overall, just a reminder to out of state students with no connection to be wary, because you might not have the grades to get interviews with CA firms, and then you might also be locked out of the Minneapolis market because you have no connections. Then you are basically screwed.

Edit: Also, there were a lot more bids on interviews with CA firms who come to OCI (and there are only about 10 or so (some with multiple offices). I got most of my interviews through the California consortium, which probably has less competition because you actually have to be in Los Angeles to attend, so it discourages people from applying who will apply to CA OCI firms because they are coming to Minnesota. I think only 5-6 other students will be at the consortium from UMN.

[bigshoulders]

I called the bookstore a couple of days ago, but it seems like they can't be of much use yet -- so does anyone know which books will be assigned for 1Ls in section C? I'll be without an effective mailing address for the last ten days of August, so want to get my (preferably used) books ordered online as early as possible.

[ozzie]

It seems that the U bookstore is going out of their way not to be particularly helpful. Whether this has anything to do with the fact that their prices are substantially higher than other vendors, I will leave you to ponder.

You can find the books assigned for your sections by going to http://onestop.umn.edu/onestop/index.html and then clicking on the link for "textbook search" on the right hand side of the page. By selecting the "Get books for my courses" button you will get a list of the books assigned for most of your courses.

For some reason, books for Legal Research and Writing don't show up on that list. You can find them separately by searching by department for "Law 6003" on the textbook search page. We haven't been assigned Legal Research and Writing sections yet, but they all seem to have been assigned the same two texts, so you're probably safe ordering those.

Hope that helps.

[bocifious]

Everyone uses the same texts for legal research class. Also, I didn't use either of the texts once. There was one assignment that required the thicker blue book; I just used the copy on reserve in the library. You will also not need these books for the first week of class (pretty sure) so don't worry about buying them if you aren't sure whether you will need them or not.

[worldtraveler]

I called the bookstore a couple of days ago, but it seems like they can't be of much use yet -- so does anyone know which books will be assigned for 1Ls in section C? I'll be without an effective mailing address for the last ten days of August, so want to get my (preferably used) books ordered online as early as possible.

The U bookstore won't be helpful in finding your books. They don't really help anybody, because the school is just so massive. Sorry, that's just kind of how they operate.

[prospect14]

That is basically correct. The main point I was trying to make is that I didn't get interviews with several firms in the city where my credentials make me an above average candidate. When I asked my career services why this happened, I was told that a lot of the Minneapolis firms are wary of hiring out of state students with no previous connection to Minnesota (which I thought was ridiculous; 3 years and $100,000 in tuition should be plenty of a connection). On the other hand, I got interviews with some great (V5) California firms where I thought I would be dinged at. So overall, just a reminder to out of state students with no connection to be wary, because you might not have the grades to get interviews with CA firms, and then you might also be locked out of the Minneapolis market because you have no connections. Then you are basically screwed.

Edit: Also, there were a lot more bids on interviews with CA firms who come to OCI (and there are only about 10 or so (some with multiple offices). I got most of my interviews through the California consortium, which probably has less competition because you actually have to be in Los Angeles to attend, so it discourages people from applying who will apply to CA OCI firms because they are coming to Minnesota. I think only 5-6 other students will be at the consortium from UMN.

Good luck on the CA interviews. I don't think practicing in CA is a bad runner-up to MN.

It is interesting despite solid credentials that you had difficulty obtaining good OCI opportunities with MN firms. Were others around your rank able to obtain good interviews with MN firms (both people that have a connection with MN and those who don't)? I'm not sure your locational background is the reason why you didn't get MN interviews, probably part of it. It's a unstable economy at the moment and maybe the MN firms are just really picky at the moment. They can afford to be I guess.

Also, would you say the median and below median 'U' students compete against the best of the best from Hamline, Willie Mitchell, St. Thomas?

[bocifious]

That is basically correct. The main point I was trying to make is that I didn't get interviews with several firms in the city where my credentials make me an above average candidate. When I asked my career services why this happened, I was told that a lot of the Minneapolis firms are wary of hiring out of state students with no previous connection to Minnesota (which I thought was ridiculous; 3 years and $100,000 in tuition should be plenty of a connection). On the other hand, I got interviews with some great (V5) California firms where I thought I would be dinged at. So overall, just a reminder to out of state students with no connection to be wary, because you might not have the grades to get interviews with CA firms, and then you might also be locked out of the Minneapolis market because you have no connections. Then you are basically screwed.

Edit: Also, there were a lot more bids on interviews with CA firms who come to OCI (and there are only about 10 or so (some with multiple offices). I got most of my interviews through the California consortium, which probably has less competition because you actually have to be in Los Angeles to attend, so it discourages people from applying who will apply to CA OCI firms because they are coming to Minnesota. I think only 5-6 other students will be at the consortium from UMN.

Good luck on the CA interviews. I don't think practicing in CA is a bad runner-up to MN.

It is interesting despite solid credentials that you had difficulty obtaining good OCI opportunities with MN firms. Were others around your rank able to obtain good interviews with MN firms (both people that have a connection with MN and those who don't)? I'm not sure your locational background is the reason why you didn't get MN interviews, probably part of it. It's a unstable economy at the moment and maybe the MN firms are just really picky at the moment. They can afford to be I guess.

Also, would you say the median and below median 'U' students compete against the best of the best from Hamline, Willie Mitchell, St. Thomas?

Thanks, I would prefer CA to MN, especially now that they don't want me

Others around my rank who had a minnesota connection got interviews very easily. People around my rank without a connection did as badly as me; most of them only got 1-2 interviews while I at least got 6. I wanted to think that maybe it was my resume or cover letters or something, but I just did too well with the CA firms to think that. Also, I got all the interviews I wanted with non-minnesota based firms that had satellites in MN, and with Minnesota corporations who probably don't care as much about a connection. If anything, I would say it was probably a combination of: 1) my lack of a connection to Minnesota, 2) not making a strong enough case in my cover letters that I wanted to stay in Minnesota permanently, 3) bad economy, and 4) a super saturated legal market with far less summer openings then law students. I mean, even the so called "large" Minneapolis firms only take 10 or less summers. I think Dorsey and Faegre are the only firms that have over 15 summers in their Minneapolis offices.

[Maccoux16]

I am in section C...

Question about the book situations... I talked to one of the admissions people and they told me to *obviously* reserve my books and buy them at the bookstore. I am so used to ordering books from half.com, but there were only 2 books listed on the website when I searched for my textbooks. So my question is, how do you figure out what books you need in time to order them online? It seems like the teachers haven't posted the required textbooks yet... I would have loved to order them on half.com... I always save so much, I just don't know where the textbooks were listed... anyone else have that problem?

[bocifious]

Last year when the time came to reserve books from the library there was a list of books. I remember this because I already had a copy of my Con Law book from undergrad but there was a new edition so I called the bookstore to ask if I needed the new edition or not.

[bocifious]

Just checked onestop (Onestop -> textbook search -> get books for my courses -> sign in) and all my classes and their respective books were posted. Might want to check it out and see if more of your classes are up; invariably some of the teachers will take longer than others.

[bocifious]

So I am back in the twin cities... I know you guys start orientation this coming up week and I have already gotten a few requests to get together. If some of you do want to meet with me in real life (OH NOES REAL LIFE!) then we can set something up. Don't rat me out to Susan Gainen about all the school bashing I do on here or I won't be your friend.

[Oklahoma Mike]

Town Hall Brewery tomorrow night at 8 work? That was what we had come up with earlier but not sure if anyone still wants to do that.

[bocifious]

Don't know if I can make it but if a bunch of people will be there I will try and stop by

[Oklahoma Mike]

I have no idea whether people will really show up tonight at 8, I'll be there so if anyone else shows up I'm a 6 foot tall balding guy with red hair and a beard

[Oklahoma Mike]

I ate dinner there after getting back from Ikea- I don't know if anyone else from TLS was there but I wasn't too worried about that. Mostly I was hungry. So, if I missed someone there, sorry about that. If the TLS people want to get together at some time in the future- or if anyone from section D is interested in being in a study group I'd potentially be down with either.

[bigshoulders]

I'm getting into town tomorrow afternoon. I'll probably spend the rest of the day lugging my furniture up the stairs, but would anybody be interested in getting together for a meal on Tuesday?

Incidentally, I'm in Section C.

[bocifious]

I will be in the library/bookstore tomorrow during lunch/afternoon in between my interviews if anyone wants to stalk me. I will not give any identifying information, you will just have to go up to everyone you see in a suit and ask if they are bocifious from TLS.

[Amira]

Bleah. I meant to go on Saturday, but my boyfriend moved up here this weekend and we were busy trying to cram even more stuff into our tiny apartment. Tuesday would be good for me if it is dinner, not lunch.

[drleather]

Is it necessary to buy the most recent editions of casebooks? Is it worth the extra $60 or so?

[bocifious]

you can get by without the newest edition sometimes, It really just depends. I would recommend buying your books used. I just went to the bookstore today to copy down the ISBN numbers.