Need/Merit/FAFSA Forum

[Dipsychus]

Since HYS don’t have merit-based scholarships, I guess only the FAFSA matters if/once you’re admitted. (NB: I think it’s a bad joke for HYS to claim that they want legal education to be available to everyone, no matter what their socioeconomic status. A requirement that you take out a 50K loan — literally the price of admission — doesn’t seem like an exemplary way to affirm “need-based-only.”

But since most schools offer a mix of of merit- and need-based aid... when should you submit FAFSA (or begin listing all your schools on that form)?

My questions are:

(1) Do Admissions and Financial Aid Offices “talk” to each other as your application is being evaluated?

(2) If School X offers a scholarship pretty early (let’s say January), but then you have to wait for a few weeks for financial aid to be processed for the need-based aid... and the same thing is happening with School Y at some other pace... and you have yet to from School Z... All this can quickly become (I’m assuming) quite zany.

(3) There is this advice out there, “Prepare and submit FAFSA info asap” but ALSO “Don’t submit fin aid info (and of course university-specific forms) until you’ve been admitted.” Which is also... erm confusing?

[cavalier1138]

1) No. Admissions and financial aid are considered separately. If your scholarship offer is contemporaneous with your admissions offer, it's because you got fast-tracked for a merit scholarship based solely on your admissions profile (usually a named full-ride).

2) That wasn't really a question, but for the most part, you're not going to get need-based aid outside of HYS. I'm not sure what kind of zaniness you're imagining in the process, though. If you get a scholarship offer from School X, that's it. You're not going to get an additional scholarship offer once they process your FAFSA. And the schools all work on basically the same timeline, so you'll have all your scholarship offers in hand before you have to start accepting or turning down offers (and then deadlines can be extended once you start negotiating).

3) Where are you seeing that advice? I don't think FAFSA timing matters at all outside of school-specific deadlines for scholarship consideration.

[Dipsychus]

This is from Spivey:

"Don’t wait to start the financial aid process until you’ve learned of your admission to law schools. Consider it as part of the process! FAFSA (Free Application for Federal Student Aid) – available Oct. 1st. The FAFSA is used to help law schools even the playing field and is a form that helps financial aid administrators determine a student’s eligibility for grants, federal work study, and federal student loans. For students applying as a fall 2019 candidate, you will use your 2017 tax information (considered the “prior-prior” year). You can go back later to make adjustments if needed. Even if the posted FAFSA deadline isn’t until the spring, don’t wait, as schools can risk running out of funds later in the admissions cycle."

https://blog.spiveyconsulting.com/the-b ... ncial-aid/

This, for example, is from Chicago:

"You will be considered for merit-based scholarships when admitted. There are no extra forms that you need to submit to the Law School. However, if you would like us to consider your financial need when determining your award, please make sure to complete the FAFSA and UChicago Need Application. Parental financial information is required on both the FAFSA and UChicago Need Application for anyone who is 28 or younger at the time the application is submitted.

"Please note: if there is some circumstance that you feel should be considered by the Committee, it is important to submit that information in a timely manner directly to financialaid@law.uchicago.edu."

And this is from NYU:

"Important Dates:

"January: NYU Law School's online institutional financial aid application becomes available for newly admitted JD students. Instructions for accessing the online application will be emailed to newly admitted JD students.

"March: Award notification for newly admitted JD students begins."

And from Columbia:

"For admitted students, we review the financial aid application once we have received the complete CSS Profile application and all required forms. Award letters are sent beginning in late March or early April."

[cavalier1138]

Right, so that's basically what I was talking about:

I don't think FAFSA timing matters at all outside of school-specific deadlines for scholarship consideration.

Spivey isn't recommending that you take care of FAFSA early because it has an impact on admissions. He's just recommending that you get it done because it's part of the overall process and can delay your financial aid consideration if you wait to submit it.

[Dipsychus]

I'm not sure what kind of zaniness you're imagining in the process, though. If you get a scholarship offer [named or not] from School X, that's it. You're not going to get an additional scholarship offer once they process your FAFSA.

But FAFSA can and will be used, if, in addition to the scholarship amount, you need more loans to meet COA (Stafford, institutional loans) -- that was the clarification I was seeking.

One theoretical possibility/problem/complication for certain named scholarships: they require an in-person interview at the end of March. R-T-K at NYU, for example (with a federal judge chairing the panel). But what a wonderful possibility! This is 99.99% not the kind of stuff that'll apply to to me, but putting it out there.

[Dipsychus]

This is interesting, from Columbia:

"Columbia University Loans were created through Law School endowments for the restricted purpose of providing loans to needy J.D. students. Because CU Loans are based on financial need, the funds generally are allocated to grant recipients as part of the financial aid package. There is not a separate application for the CU loans; J.D. grant applicants are considered automatically."

I wonder if other schools also include an institutional loan component in their admission-cum-grant package.

[cavalier1138]

Yes, FAFSA is used to calculate federal loans. That's totally separate from the admissions process, though. If you don't qualify for federal loans, it has no impact on your offer. You're just expected to find a different way to pay your bills.

[Dipsychus]

Right, so that's basically what I was talking about:

I don't think FAFSA timing matters at all outside of school-specific deadlines for scholarship consideration.

Spivey isn't recommending that you take care of FAFSA early because it has an impact on admissions. He's just recommending that you get it done because it's part of the overall process and can delay your financial aid consideration if you wait to submit it.

Yes. But this is the confounding sentence and nouns in the Spivey quote which perplexed me (but doesn't any more, thank you):

"Even if the posted FAFSA deadline isn’t until the spring, don’t wait, as schools can risk running out of [unspecified types of] funds later in the admissions cycle."

[nixy]

So you do have to fill out the FAFSA to get financial aid from law schools, but something else to keep in mind is that federal loans themselves aren't really need-based. You could be Bill Gates and if you wanted to take out loans to pay for all the costs of law school you could. I think the FAFSA is more about qualifying for loans at all (i.e. do you have sufficiently decent credit), and to some extent, distribution of loans (subsidized v. unsubsidized - though I'm not sure they do any subsidized grad school loans any more, that's changed since I was getting loans).

Schools like Columbia that offer institutional need-based loans may also intend them to go to international students, who aren't eligible for federal student loans.

In any case, there isn't really any competition for loans. They don't run out and the only timing thing is to make sure your info is in to the schools in sufficient time for the loans to get processed before you need to start. Nor are you going to get a materially "better" or "worse" loan package - you can take out loans up to the total COA for whatever school you attend, assuming you're not a total credit disaster. For instance, I don't think there's any huge advantage to getting a Columbia loan vs. a federal loan (there are probably better protections on the latter, though I don't know for certain).

Again, this loan process is separate from whatever merit package you get.

Edit to add: I think Spivey is really talking about merit funding. Or HYS, where yes, they have pools of need-based money that might run out. The federal loans don't run out.