161 / 3.3 (AA URM): all this waiting is killing me Forum

[fl0w]

I feel like my cycle could really go in either direction. All this talk about URMs overestimating themselves and getting shut out of the top14 is seriously starting to make me go crazy. My lsn link is in my profile. I know I've applied to reaches, but the app fee was waived so I threw my hat in. But there's gotta be someone in the top14 that will bite, right?

Every day that passes feels like eternity, and my confidence plummets.

[FunkyJD]

My numbers are similar to yours ... watching with interest, good luck.

[Havaianas]

MEEEE tooooo! I really hope some of those T-14s aren't planning on holding us "borderline URMs" until April. I'm pretty sure I need to decide before then for my sanity.

but also.... My numbers are pretty similar and I got into Duke and GULC fwiw

[fl0w]

MEEEE tooooo! I really hope some of those T-14s aren't planning on holding us "borderline URMs" until April. I'm pretty sure I need to decide before then for my sanity.

but also.... My numbers are pretty similar and I got into Duke and GULC fwiw

That does deliver some promise! And congrats on your admits, by the way. Another reason I'm so stressed is because I couldn't get anything submitted until the second week of December because of work. It's torture!

[APimpNamedSlickback]

I feel like my cycle could really go in either direction. All this talk about URMs overestimating themselves and getting shut out of the top14 is seriously starting to make me go crazy. My lsn link is in my profile. I know I've applied to reaches, but the app fee was waived so I threw my hat in. But there's gotta be someone in the top14 that will bite, right?

Every day that passes feels like eternity, and my confidence plummets.

is this a nod at my catastrophe of a cycle thus far? if so, i understand given my incessant whining.

however, i'd urge you not to extrapolate too much from my results so far because i retook in december. my lsat is higher than yale's median and is probably in the top 5 for urm males nationally. still, if the t14 still isnt showing me love after 3 or 4 weeks from now, its probably time to wonder if this cycle is out of this world hard.

good luck

[Rand M.]

MEEEE tooooo! I really hope some of those T-14s aren't planning on holding us "borderline URMs" until April. I'm pretty sure I need to decide before then for my sanity.

but also.... My numbers are pretty similar and I got into Duke and GULC fwiw

That does deliver some promise! And congrats on your admits, by the way. Another reason I'm so stressed is because I couldn't get anything submitted until the second week of December because of work. It's torture!

Yeah, you got in pretty late, but I don't think you have anything to worry about. Just relax and know that good news is coming. As long as you would be happy with any T14 acceptances, you have a good shot at being happy in the end. (EDIT: that is if you have spread the chips around).

[fl0w]

MEEEE tooooo! I really hope some of those T-14s aren't planning on holding us "borderline URMs" until April. I'm pretty sure I need to decide before then for my sanity.

but also.... My numbers are pretty similar and I got into Duke and GULC fwiw

That does deliver some promise! And congrats on your admits, by the way. Another reason I'm so stressed is because I couldn't get anything submitted until the second week of December because of work. It's torture!

Yeah, you got in pretty late, but I don't think you have anything to worry about. Just relax and know that good news is coming. As long as you would be happy with any T14 acceptances, you have a good shot at being happy in the end. (EDIT: that is if you have spread the chips around).

fortunately the chips are spread fairly well. with about half of the schools I applied to providing fee waivers, I essentially decided to double the number of schools I was going to apply to (and am fortunate enough to have a good full time job to finance the other half of the applications).

[fl0w]

I feel like my cycle could really go in either direction. All this talk about URMs overestimating themselves and getting shut out of the top14 is seriously starting to make me go crazy. My lsn link is in my profile. I know I've applied to reaches, but the app fee was waived so I threw my hat in. But there's gotta be someone in the top14 that will bite, right?

Every day that passes feels like eternity, and my confidence plummets.

is this a nod at my catastrophe of a cycle thus far? if so, i understand given my incessant whining.

however, i'd urge you not to extrapolate too much from my results so far because i retook in december. my lsat is higher than yale's median and is probably in the top 5 for urm males nationally. still, if the t14 still isnt showing me love after 3 or 4 weeks from now, its probably time to wonder if this cycle is out of this world hard.

good luck

a partial nod to a cycle like yours, and a partial nod to those statistics people were linking to that showed 61% of blacks were denied at EVERY law school to which they applied. Regardless of what rationale people want to conjure to explain this, that's a SCARY STATISTIC!!! It seriously keeps me up at night.

And hell, based on that statistic (and my acceptance to DePaul), I'm better off that 39% of black law school applicants already. SERIOUSLY?!?!

[T_Easy]

I've been accepted at Georgia with 3.3/152, AA male. It's hope, you have to make sure you have good softs, and a strong personal statement.

[Doritos]

I feel like my cycle could really go in either direction. All this talk about URMs overestimating themselves and getting shut out of the top14 is seriously starting to make me go crazy. My lsn link is in my profile. I know I've applied to reaches, but the app fee was waived so I threw my hat in. But there's gotta be someone in the top14 that will bite, right?

Every day that passes feels like eternity, and my confidence plummets.

is this a nod at my catastrophe of a cycle thus far? if so, i understand given my incessant whining.

however, i'd urge you not to extrapolate too much from my results so far because i retook in december. my lsat is higher than yale's median and is probably in the top 5 for urm males nationally. still, if the t14 still isnt showing me love after 3 or 4 weeks from now, its probably time to wonder if this cycle is out of this world hard.

good luck

a partial nod to a cycle like yours, and a partial nod to those statistics people were linking to that showed 61% of blacks were denied at EVERY law school to which they applied. Regardless of what rationale people want to conjure to explain this, that's a SCARY STATISTIC!!! It seriously keeps me up at night.

And hell, based on that statistic (and my acceptance to DePaul), I'm better off that 39% of black law school applicants already. SERIOUSLY?!?!

That's cuz us blacks don't do well with the LSAT. and by not doing well I mean doing catastrophically terrible. Hopefully by the time I rear up some black children the bar will be higher. In the mean time I'm happy with getting my slice of the Affirmative Action pie.

[devilishangelrjp]

I feel like my cycle could really go in either direction. All this talk about URMs overestimating themselves and getting shut out of the top14 is seriously starting to make me go crazy. My lsn link is in my profile. I know I've applied to reaches, but the app fee was waived so I threw my hat in. But there's gotta be someone in the top14 that will bite, right?

Every day that passes feels like eternity, and my confidence plummets.

is this a nod at my catastrophe of a cycle thus far? if so, i understand given my incessant whining.

however, i'd urge you not to extrapolate too much from my results so far because i retook in december. my lsat is higher than yale's median and is probably in the top 5 for urm males nationally. still, if the t14 still isnt showing me love after 3 or 4 weeks from now, its probably time to wonder if this cycle is out of this world hard.

good luck

a partial nod to a cycle like yours, and a partial nod to those statistics people were linking to that showed 61% of blacks were denied at EVERY law school to which they applied. Regardless of what rationale people want to conjure to explain this, that's a SCARY STATISTIC!!! It seriously keeps me up at night.

And hell, based on that statistic (and my acceptance to DePaul), I'm better off that 39% of black law school applicants already. SERIOUSLY?!?!

That's cuz us blacks don't do well with the LSAT. and by not doing well I mean doing catastrophically terrible. Hopefully by the time I rear up some black children the bar will be higher. In the mean time I'm happy with getting my slice of the Affirmative Action pie.

Preach!

[legalized]

I feel like my cycle could really go in either direction. All this talk about URMs overestimating themselves and getting shut out of the top14 is seriously starting to make me go crazy. My lsn link is in my profile. I know I've applied to reaches, but the app fee was waived so I threw my hat in. But there's gotta be someone in the top14 that will bite, right?

Every day that passes feels like eternity, and my confidence plummets.

is this a nod at my catastrophe of a cycle thus far? if so, i understand given my incessant whining.

however, i'd urge you not to extrapolate too much from my results so far because i retook in december. my lsat is higher than yale's median and is probably in the top 5 for urm males nationally. still, if the t14 still isnt showing me love after 3 or 4 weeks from now, its probably time to wonder if this cycle is out of this world hard.

good luck

a partial nod to a cycle like yours, and a partial nod to those statistics people were linking to that showed 61% of blacks were denied at EVERY law school to which they applied. Regardless of what rationale people want to conjure to explain this, that's a SCARY STATISTIC!!! It seriously keeps me up at night.

And hell, based on that statistic (and my acceptance to DePaul), I'm better off that 39% of black law school applicants already. SERIOUSLY?!?!

That's cuz us blacks don't do well with the LSAT. and by not doing well I mean doing catastrophically terrible. Hopefully by the time I rear up some black children the bar will be higher. In the mean time I'm happy with getting my slice of the Affirmative Action pie.

You know, one thing I hate about URM sections of law boards is the new information about the negative statistics out there on blacks. I had no idea 2/3 of blacks don't get accepted ANYWHERE they apply until this thread...and in the middle of getting ready for the LSAT and using info on top schools and their requirements to motivate me...I didn't need to know that.

If blacks keeps hearing all this depressing news left right and center, how the hell are they suppose to get ahead when there is a crushing expectation of failure? I hate it. Ignorance is bliss for me. I succeed much easier when I have no clue that I am actually expected NOT to.

But what i really posted in this thread to ask is...why exactly do the powers that be feel (or find due to research) that blacks do "catastrophically terrible"? Is anyone out there trying to actually get to the root of the problem, such as lack of preparation, lack of knowledge on what it actually means to prepare for law school admissions cycle, too low of an expectation on LSAT, not prioritizing softs, etc....that causes this catastrophe? Or are they just reiterating the same doom and gloom every year than turning around end of cycle lamenting the low numbers of blacks?

[fl0w]

i don't remember the # but i think the average LSAT score for blacks is 142ish. That, in and of itself, is grounds to say that we do terribly on the LSAT (on average).

Why? Your guess is as good as mine. And it would likely be a lot of the same reasons used to justify affirmative action.

You should NOT, however, ignore this. You should be very aware of these facts. Ignorance will always get you into trouble (especially in law).

[Doritos]

legalized I know its ridiculous. I read an article a few years back about how bad blacks do on the LSAT and it really gave me pause. It was in a scholarly journal of some kind and I will try to dig it up. I don't think its that we (black people) are genetically deficient but I think its a product of culture factors. Blacks on average as a whole are poorer, worse educated, and more likely to commit crime. That is the backdrop our people have going into the LSAT. Chances are their parents have less $$ than the white person's parents who they are sitting next to. With less $$ you go to worse schools. So you are disadvantaged there. This is made worse by the culture of stupid you see glorified a lot of the time in black culture. This is the result of being enslaved and politically, economically, and socially subservient to the white man for centuries. Rise up my black brethren!

Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice or anything. If you're a man, you take it.

[LawSuccess]

Yeah, I guess those that know better, do better. Hopefully the average has gone up over time.....?

I've had to really do a 180 on my confidence to gear up for my second LSAT sitting.

I wish you all the best in your efforts to get accepted to the schools you want -- and success when you get there!

[Havaianas]

seriously though the URM 2010 application cycle is full of positive news all the time. It'll make you feel lots better:)

[fl0w]

seriously though the URM 2010 application cycle is full of positive news all the time. It'll make you feel lots better:)

good news for the URMs who score 170 range.

[hiromoto45]

You know, one thing I hate about URM sections of law boards is the new information about the negative statistics out there on blacks. I had no idea 2/3 of blacks don't get accepted ANYWHERE they apply until this thread...and in the middle of getting ready for the LSAT and using info on top schools and their requirements to motivate me...I didn't need to know that.

If blacks keeps hearing all this depressing news left right and center, how the hell are they suppose to get ahead when there is a crushing expectation of failure? I hate it. Ignorance is bliss for me. I succeed much easier when I have no clue that I am actually expected NOT to.

But what i really posted in this thread to ask is...why exactly do the powers that be feel (or find due to research) that blacks do "catastrophically terrible"? Is anyone out there trying to actually get to the root of the problem, such as lack of preparation, lack of knowledge on what it actually means to prepare for law school admissions cycle, too low of an expectation on LSAT, not prioritizing softs, etc....that causes this catastrophe? Or are they just reiterating the same doom and gloom every year than turning around end of cycle lamenting the low numbers of blacks?

I have a different point of view. I think knowing the statistics helps URMs make realistic choices in applying to law schools. A 149 trying at Harvard is completely misguided. I believe that is where the 61% stat is derived. For me I rather know what I'm up against and need to do to succeed. I don't think there is a lack of knowledge, I think there is a lack of initiative to seek the knowledge. I go to a top school and my peer URMs have the access to abundant and quality information and services and still don't take advantage of it...mostly the guys don't.

[APimpNamedSlickback]

like i said, just give it time. thinks are opening up for me now.

[JAP1985]

whoa.

[fl0w]

like i said, just give it time. thinks are opening up for me now.

i'm glad your cycle has finally become what it should be.

whoa.

not sure at which statement that is directed.

Anyway, I'm not trying to take away from everyone's success popping up in the URM cycle thread. I'm seriously happy for you all. You worked hard for your results and are generating just rewards. I'm sure you can understand, however, someone like myself realizing that there are just less and less spots for me at any school.

When the middle of Feb comes around and they finally make a decision on my file, even though my LSAT was 83rd percentile or something (regardless of URM status), it just doesn't look good anymore next to the 170+ URMs that they already jumped on. I guess as more time passes I just get more pessimistic.

When I talk to my buddy (URM IP attorney) and he tells me that in his class at a top20 law school there were --TWO-- URM IP candidates, that's shocking. Him and his twin brother. Maybe that helps put into perspective why I'm starting to freak out.

[JAP1985]

like i said, just give it time. thinks are opening up for me now.

i'm glad your cycle has finally become what it should be.

whoa.

not sure at which statement that is directed.

Anyway, I'm not trying to take away from everyone's success popping up in the URM cycle thread. I'm seriously happy for you all. You worked hard for your results and are generating just rewards. I'm sure you can understand, however, someone like myself realizing that there are just less and less spots for me at any school.

When the middle of Feb comes around and they finally make a decision on my file, even though my LSAT was 83rd percentile or something (regardless of URM status), it just doesn't look good anymore next to the 170+ URMs that they already jumped on. I guess as more time passes I just get more pessimistic.

When I talk to my buddy (URM IP attorney) and he tells me that in his class at a top20 law school there were --TWO-- URM IP candidates, that's shocking. Him and his twin brother. Maybe that helps put into perspective why I'm starting to freak out.

My whoa was more comical than anything. I popped my head in the thread and saw a huge photo of MalcolmX and briefly scanned some of the content, thus the "whoa". haha. It reminds me of a few of my classes at HU.

I agree with Talib, be patient. The applicant pool has increased this year and URM files generally can take longer than other applicants. You should also realize that there are not that many AA URMS with 170+ lsat scores.

Your acceptances will be flooding in shortly. Good luck!

edit: Are you dead-set on attending school in the fall? A few more points on that lsat score could open better doors.

[Rand M.]

like i said, just give it time. thinks are opening up for me now.

i'm glad your cycle has finally become what it should be.

whoa.

not sure at which statement that is directed.

Anyway, I'm not trying to take away from everyone's success popping up in the URM cycle thread. I'm seriously happy for you all. You worked hard for your results and are generating just rewards. I'm sure you can understand, however, someone like myself realizing that there are just less and less spots for me at any school.

When the middle of Feb comes around and they finally make a decision on my file, even though my LSAT was 83rd percentile or something (regardless of URM status), it just doesn't look good anymore next to the 170+ URMs that they already jumped on. I guess as more time passes I just get more pessimistic.

When I talk to my buddy (URM IP attorney) and he tells me that in his class at a top20 law school there were --TWO-- URM IP candidates, that's shocking. Him and his twin brother. Maybe that helps put into perspective why I'm starting to freak out.

My whoa was more comical than anything. I popped my head in the thread and saw a huge photo of MalcolmX and briefly scanned some of the content, thus the "whoa". haha. It reminds me of a few of my classes at HU.

I agree with Talib, be patient. The applicant pool has increased this year and URM files generally can take longer than other applicants. You should also realize that there are not that many AA URMS with 170+ lsat scores.

Your acceptances will be flooding in shortly. Good luck!

edit: Are you dead-set on attending school in the fall? A few more points on that lsat score could open better doors.

+1

[hiromoto45]

Ditto on what Flow said. I feel I'm in the same boat...applying earlier would have been very beneficial as we can see thus far. Anyone else annoyed or offended by the concept of holding URM files till the end to see if we can be admitted without messing up medians and rankings? Does that mean someone with a 156 will get in over a 164 since at that point those scores will not have an effect on the medians? Therefore, the ones that did work hard to achieve are past over? Hopefully I'm just thinking too much and this is not the case.

[Rand M.]

Ditto on what Flow said. I feel I'm in the same boat...applying earlier would have been very beneficial as we can see thus far. Anyone else annoyed or offended by the concept of holding URM files till the end to see if we can be admitted without messing up medians and rankings? Does that mean someone with a 156 will get in over a 164 since at that point those scores will not have an effect on the medians? Therefore, the ones that did work hard to achieve are past over? Hopefully I'm just thinking too much and this is not the case.

1. You are thinking too much

2. Are you really complaining about a school taking into account 'other factors' (besides LSAT/GPA) in order to admit people with lower numbers?

In the end, they admit who they want (with the subtle caveat that they sometimes admit who 'can'--without affecting pre-established inter-quartile ranges).