Fordham & BostonUni | Big Law | International Applicant Forum

[UserJD]

I get that international applicants should aim for T14 schools. These colleges give us a decent chance at big law firms, which is the only way we can get our visa sponsored. But I see colleges like Fordham and BostonUni having ~40% big law placements. BU even has a high LSAT median. Say I get significantly higher scholarship from them than from lower T14 colleges, which do not have significantly higher big law placements. Is there any reason I should still pick the T14 college?

[CanadianWolf]

Tough to offer meaningful advice without knowing your acceptances and details of any scholarship awards or aid offered.

BYU & Fordham place in biglaw in large part due to each school's location.

[nealric]

I get that international applicants should aim for T14 schools. These colleges give us a decent chance at big law firms, which is the only way we can get our visa sponsored. But I see colleges like Fordham and BostonUni having ~40% big law placements. BU even has a high LSAT median. Say I get significantly higher scholarship from them than from lower T14 colleges, which do not have significantly higher big law placements. Is there any reason I should still pick the T14 college?

It is a risk/reward calculus. Keep in mind that the 40% biglaw placement from BU/Fordham are representative of the extremely strong hiring market in 2021/22. Demand today for first year associates is far lower, although we don't know what it would be in August of 2025 when a student matriculating this fall would be up for OCI. However, in bad times there is a "flight to quality" when it comes to hiring. For example, during the great recession school like Columbia went from around 80% Biglaw placement to around 65%. Schools like BU went from 40% to more like 15% (a much more precipitous drop).

So you are exchanging two types of risk: a lower ranked school has lower financial risk up front, but higher risk of missing out on biglaw. If you are an international student looking for visa sponsorship, that risk of missing out on biglaw is perhaps more acute because most non-biglaw employers do not sponsor visas. You'll need to consider what your fallback is if you miss out. Will employers in your home country value a degree from BU or Fordham? How will that value compare to a T14 degree? How are you financing your education? Can your family pay out of pocket if need be, or are you lining up some sort of financing? Worth noting that not all biglaw firms are necessarily happy to sponsor visas, so your chances of biglaw may actually be slightly lower than the average for a given school.

[UserJD]

Thanks, both of you, for your replies.

@CanadianWolf, Right now I am considering whether these colleges are even worth applying. I would of course seek advice when I acquire some acceptances and scholarships.

@nealric, This clears things up. I was wondering what the catch was. Their placements are not stable and I can assume that even if they place a certain percentage of students in big law, it does not translate neatly to my probability of getting placed in big law.

I am still considering whether I should apply to one or both of these colleges as safety schools.

BU has a higher rank and higher lsat median than Fordham. Can I conclude that all else being equal, BU is the clear choice of the two? Do I need to consider the strength of NY legal market vs Boston legal market? Who offers more generous scholarships?

[nixy]

Thanks, both of you, for your replies.

@CanadianWolf, Right now I am considering whether these colleges are even worth applying. I would of course seek advice when I acquire some acceptances and scholarships.

@nealric, This clears things up. I was wondering what the catch was. Their placements are not stable and I can assume that even if they place a certain percentage of students in big law, it does not translate neatly to my probability of getting placed in big law.

I am still considering whether I should apply to one or both of these colleges as safety schools.

BU has a higher rank and higher lsat median than Fordham. Can I conclude that all else being equal, BU is the clear choice of the two? Do I need to consider the strength of NY legal market vs Boston legal market? Who offers more generous scholarships?

I don't think you should assume that higher rank/LSAT = the clear better choice. They're close enough schools that the better choice is probably whichever will leave you in the least debt, especially if something goes badly and you can't get a job that gets you a visa.

The other big question here is where you want to live/practice. If you want to be in Boston, go to BU. If you want to be in NYC, go to Fordham, despite BU's higher rank/medians; there are lots of Fordham alums in NYC and being in the market where you want to practice makes it much easier to network and make connections during law school. (Though I think if you have biglaw-competitive grades, you can probably get to NYC from BU a little more easily than Boston from Fordham, because Boston is smaller/more insualar.) If you have absolutely no preference at all between those two cities, then you're probably back to cost/debt.

It's always a delicate balance, trying to figure out the appropriate trade off between ranking and scholarship. But safety school is less of a thing for law school than for undergrad. You should only apply to schools that you believe will give you a reasonable shot at the kind of job you want while incurring a reasonable amount of debt. What "reasonable" means for each of those categories is pretty subjective, but there's no point in applying to a school with poor employment stats just b/c you'll get in and get a big scholarship (not that that necessarily describes either Fordham or BU, mind you, just as a general principle).

[UserJD]

Thanks, both of you, for your replies.

@CanadianWolf, Right now I am considering whether these colleges are even worth applying. I would of course seek advice when I acquire some acceptances and scholarships.

@nealric, This clears things up. I was wondering what the catch was. Their placements are not stable and I can assume that even if they place a certain percentage of students in big law, it does not translate neatly to my probability of getting placed in big law.

I am still considering whether I should apply to one or both of these colleges as safety schools.

BU has a higher rank and higher lsat median than Fordham. Can I conclude that all else being equal, BU is the clear choice of the two? Do I need to consider the strength of NY legal market vs Boston legal market? Who offers more generous scholarships?

I don't think you should assume that higher rank/LSAT = the clear better choice. They're close enough schools that the better choice is probably whichever will leave you in the least debt, especially if something goes badly and you can't get a job that gets you a visa.

The other big question here is where you want to live/practice. If you want to be in Boston, go to BU. If you want to be in NYC, go to Fordham, despite BU's higher rank/medians; there are lots of Fordham alums in NYC and being in the market where you want to practice makes it much easier to network and make connections during law school. (Though I think if you have biglaw-competitive grades, you can probably get to NYC from BU a little more easily than Boston from Fordham, because Boston is smaller/more insualar.) If you have absolutely no preference at all between those two cities, then you're probably back to cost/debt.

It's always a delicate balance, trying to figure out the appropriate trade off between ranking and scholarship. But safety school is less of a thing for law school than for undergrad. You should only apply to schools that you believe will give you a reasonable shot at the kind of job you want while incurring a reasonable amount of debt. What "reasonable" means for each of those categories is pretty subjective, but there's no point in applying to a school with poor employment stats just b/c you'll get in and get a big scholarship (not that that necessarily describes either Fordham or BU, mind you, just as a general principle).

I see, these colleges are close enough that I can decide between the two, to a large extent, based on the scholarship they provide.

Thank you for your reply.