I agree NYU has low lay prestige, but it should beat at least Chicago, Virginia, Berkeley, and maybe Penn (State?).RParadela wrote:Lol NYU has 0 lay prestige. NYU has the least lay prestige out of the T13 IMOvcap180 wrote:the lay prestige meter, which is the only thing that matters, reads as follows:RedPurpleBlue wrote:I'm not sure if you're serious, but I'll bite. Prestige is marginally based on employment statistics. Harvard Law produces presidents, Attorney Generals, Supreme Court Justices, U.S. Representatives, and Senators. UVA and Duke can't even compete in those regards. Combined they have 2 SCOTUS justices (one of whom didn't even graduate UVA and the other served on the court over 70 years ago), two presidents (Wilson didn't even graduate from UVA Law, and Nixon resigned as to not get impeached), and a few Reps./Senators I imagine, but those are few in number compared to Harvard. Plus, Harvard Law gets the added bonus of the prestige produced by the Harvard UG (where some of the smartest/wealthiest students have gone for 100s of years), and Harvard Grad (where some of the most preeminent scholars, doctors, and business people have gone). UVA and Duke have what? Strong graduate history programs, okay business schools, and the latter has a good medical school. That's about it. Harvard Law also gets a ton of great PI/Gov't jobs that are prestigious that don't fit inside the really limited (and thus dumb) BL + FC box that TLS salivates over.TLS_Dreamer wrote:
But why aren't UVA and Duke more prestigious than Harvard? If the former schools give you better employment options, aren't people who say Harvard is better just objectively wrong? Why do people give Harvard higher standing? It just makes no sense to me.
I think it's pretty clear why everyone views Harvard as objectively better, regardless of what a couple points on BL + FC employment percentages say.
Harvard >>> Duke > NYU > UVA
Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School Forum
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School
- rpupkin
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School
TLS already has a thread for the "lay prestige" discussion:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... start=1575
Please limit your "lay prestige" observations to that thread. If you do not comply, I will use my considerable influence to get the mods to suspend your account and/or de-anonymize all of your past anonymous posts. This is your only warning.
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... start=1575
Please limit your "lay prestige" observations to that thread. If you do not comply, I will use my considerable influence to get the mods to suspend your account and/or de-anonymize all of your past anonymous posts. This is your only warning.
- RParadela
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School
Definitely no, no, no, and definitely notgoldenbear2020 wrote:I agree NYU has low lay prestige, but it should beat at least Chicago, Virginia, Berkeley, and maybe Penn (State?).RParadela wrote:Lol NYU has 0 lay prestige. NYU has the least lay prestige out of the T13 IMOvcap180 wrote:the lay prestige meter, which is the only thing that matters, reads as follows:RedPurpleBlue wrote:I'm not sure if you're serious, but I'll bite. Prestige is marginally based on employment statistics. Harvard Law produces presidents, Attorney Generals, Supreme Court Justices, U.S. Representatives, and Senators. UVA and Duke can't even compete in those regards. Combined they have 2 SCOTUS justices (one of whom didn't even graduate UVA and the other served on the court over 70 years ago), two presidents (Wilson didn't even graduate from UVA Law, and Nixon resigned as to not get impeached), and a few Reps./Senators I imagine, but those are few in number compared to Harvard. Plus, Harvard Law gets the added bonus of the prestige produced by the Harvard UG (where some of the smartest/wealthiest students have gone for 100s of years), and Harvard Grad (where some of the most preeminent scholars, doctors, and business people have gone). UVA and Duke have what? Strong graduate history programs, okay business schools, and the latter has a good medical school. That's about it. Harvard Law also gets a ton of great PI/Gov't jobs that are prestigious that don't fit inside the really limited (and thus dumb) BL + FC box that TLS salivates over.TLS_Dreamer wrote:
But why aren't UVA and Duke more prestigious than Harvard? If the former schools give you better employment options, aren't people who say Harvard is better just objectively wrong? Why do people give Harvard higher standing? It just makes no sense to me.
I think it's pretty clear why everyone views Harvard as objectively better, regardless of what a couple points on BL + FC employment percentages say.
Harvard >>> Duke > NYU > UVA
- Toni V
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School
You can attend Princeton's law school...once you build a time machine.lawlzschool wrote:this past week i had someone ask me why i didnt apply to princeton lawThelaw23 wrote:Where's Princeton Law bruhToni V wrote:IVY League LST breakout
………………..Employ% • Big Law%
UPENN 89.8 • 66.3
CORNELL 89.6 • 62.8
COLUMBIA 87.2 • 73.6
HARVARD 85.7 • 51.8
YALE 81.2 • 38.5
"because... it doesn't...exist...?"
The Law School at the College of New Jersey (now Princeton University) was a department of Princeton University from 1847 until 1852.
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School
That's the joke.Toni V wrote:You can attend Princeton's law school...once you build a time machine.lawlzschool wrote:this past week i had someone ask me why i didnt apply to princeton lawThelaw23 wrote:Where's Princeton Law bruhToni V wrote:IVY League LST breakout
………………..Employ% • Big Law%
UPENN 89.8 • 66.3
CORNELL 89.6 • 62.8
COLUMBIA 87.2 • 73.6
HARVARD 85.7 • 51.8
YALE 81.2 • 38.5
"because... it doesn't...exist...?"
The Law School at the College of New Jersey (now Princeton University) was a department of Princeton University from 1847 until 1852.
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School
OP, Nebby, you've mis-ordered NYU. Should be behind both Stanford and Cornell.
- jbagelboy
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School
Franklin Roosevelt and Teddy Roosevelt both went to Columbia law school.buckiguy_sucks wrote:University of Cincinnati College of Law and Albany Law School finally getting the respect they deserve on these foragrades?? wrote: How many presidents has Columbia law graduated?
- rpupkin
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School
UT's numbers are closer to Fordham's and BU's than to GULC's. It's ironic that TLS has recently bandied about the question of "does UT now belong in the T14?" It sounds like the better question is: "does UT even belong in the T20?"
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School
jbagelboy wrote:Franklin Roosevelt and Teddy Roosevelt both went to Columbia law school.buckiguy_sucks wrote:University of Cincinnati College of Law and Albany Law School finally getting the respect they deserve on these foragrades?? wrote: How many presidents has Columbia law graduated?
- amta
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School
theres only so many big law jobs in texas.rpupkin wrote:UT's numbers are closer to Fordham's and BU's than to GULC's. It's ironic that TLS has recently bandied about the question of "does UT now belong in the T14?" It sounds like the better question is: "does UT even belong in the T20?"
- rpupkin
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School
Yeah, and both dropped out (TR after his first year and FDR after his second). Once they realized how little prestige CLS had compared to HLS and YLS, they knew it wasn't worth their time.curry1 wrote: Franklin Roosevelt and Teddy Roosevelt both went to Columbia law school.
- RSN
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School
Vicious but actually probably true at the timerpupkin wrote:Yeah, and both dropped out (TR after his first year and FDR after his second). Once they realized how little prestige CLS had compared to HLS and YLS, they knew it wasn't worth their time.curry1 wrote: Franklin Roosevelt and Teddy Roosevelt both went to Columbia law school.
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School
CLS = finishing school for trust fund dilettantes from the beginningrpupkin wrote:Yeah, and both dropped out (TR after his first year and FDR after his second). Once they realized how little prestige CLS had compared to HLS and YLS, they knew it wasn't worth their time.curry1 wrote: Franklin Roosevelt and Teddy Roosevelt both went to Columbia law school.
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- Pragmatic Gun
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School
rpupkin wrote:Yeah, and both dropped out (TR after his first year and FDR after his second). Once they realized how little prestige CLS had compared to HLS and YLS, they knew it wasn't worth their time.curry1 wrote: Franklin Roosevelt and Teddy Roosevelt both went to Columbia law school.
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School
Let's not forget that Samuel Tilden graduated from NYU, and was the true winner of the 1876 election.
- cavalier1138
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School
How are Duke and NYU "equal" in PI/gov placement?TLS_Dreamer wrote:Why though? Their BL+Clerk is a good bit higher. Even ud you include PI and Gov they're just like equal. Why is NYU even regarded more highly?cavalier1138 wrote:Assuming you're serious, no chance at all.TLS_Dreamer wrote:What are the odds that Duke (77.7%) and UVA (76.9%) pass NYU (74.5%) in the rankings in the next few years?
NYU has a lower BL+FC number because a very large number of people go into PI.
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School
If you add BL+FC+PI+Gov Duke and NYU are very close. I don't remember the exact #scavalier1138 wrote:How are Duke and NYU "equal" in PI/gov placement?TLS_Dreamer wrote:Why though? Their BL+Clerk is a good bit higher. Even ud you include PI and Gov they're just like equal. Why is NYU even regarded more highly?cavalier1138 wrote:Assuming you're serious, no chance at all.TLS_Dreamer wrote:What are the odds that Duke (77.7%) and UVA (76.9%) pass NYU (74.5%) in the rankings in the next few years?
NYU has a lower BL+FC number because a very large number of people go into PI.
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- cavalier1138
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School
No. Duke sends maybe 5% of its class into PI/gov each year. NYU sends 18-20%. There's only a 3% difference in BL/FC numbers, and NYU has over twice as many students.TLS_Dreamer wrote:If you add BL+FC+PI+Gov Duke and NYU are very close. I don't remember the exact #scavalier1138 wrote:How are Duke and NYU "equal" in PI/gov placement?TLS_Dreamer wrote:Why though? Their BL+Clerk is a good bit higher. Even ud you include PI and Gov they're just like equal. Why is NYU even regarded more highly?cavalier1138 wrote:Assuming you're serious, no chance at all.TLS_Dreamer wrote:What are the odds that Duke (77.7%) and UVA (76.9%) pass NYU (74.5%) in the rankings in the next few years?
NYU has a lower BL+FC number because a very large number of people go into PI.
Duke's a great school. But it's not going to displace NYU because of BL/FC placement. NYU has always had lower biglaw placement numbers because of PI.
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School
I just wanted to see how fast I could derail this into a lay prestige shitshow. It actually took two separate posts to get anyone to bite, but once someone did, the rest went just as planned.
- jbagelboy
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School
Historically/factually speaking they left the school because prior to WWII it was far less important to actually receive a law degree, and students would satisfy the historical equivalent of 'graduated' once they were able to sit for the bar, whereupon they usually left. Also, 2 years of law school was frequently sufficient to receive the degree. Many famous 'alums' of law schools (including CLS, HLS and YLS) merely attended for a couple years circa 1900 and did not 'graduate' in the sense we think of today.RSN wrote:Vicious but actually probably true at the timerpupkin wrote:Yeah, and both dropped out (TR after his first year and FDR after his second). Once they realized how little prestige CLS had compared to HLS and YLS, they knew it wasn't worth their time.curry1 wrote: Franklin Roosevelt and Teddy Roosevelt both went to Columbia law school.
Alao technically speaking they received posthumous degrees.
- jb111
- Posts: 51
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School
I've been working on a new metric:
BL+FC+PI+GOV+OTHER+UNEMP
Some surprising results that I won't get all the way into right here and now, but I can guarantee that you will be surprised at some of the schools tied for first (and last).
And I can confirm that NYU and Duke have exactly the same score under my system.
BL+FC+PI+GOV+OTHER+UNEMP
Some surprising results that I won't get all the way into right here and now, but I can guarantee that you will be surprised at some of the schools tied for first (and last).
And I can confirm that NYU and Duke have exactly the same score under my system.
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School
Any info for Emory, ND and Minnesota?
- Po$eidon
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School
Definitely doesn't beat Berkeley (which has huge lay prestige) or Chicago (which has pretty significant lay prestige).goldenbear2020 wrote:I agree NYU has low lay prestige, but it should beat at least Chicago, Virginia, Berkeley, and maybe Penn (State?).RParadela wrote:Lol NYU has 0 lay prestige. NYU has the least lay prestige out of the T13 IMOvcap180 wrote:the lay prestige meter, which is the only thing that matters, reads as follows:RedPurpleBlue wrote:I'm not sure if you're serious, but I'll bite. Prestige is marginally based on employment statistics. Harvard Law produces presidents, Attorney Generals, Supreme Court Justices, U.S. Representatives, and Senators. UVA and Duke can't even compete in those regards. Combined they have 2 SCOTUS justices (one of whom didn't even graduate UVA and the other served on the court over 70 years ago), two presidents (Wilson didn't even graduate from UVA Law, and Nixon resigned as to not get impeached), and a few Reps./Senators I imagine, but those are few in number compared to Harvard. Plus, Harvard Law gets the added bonus of the prestige produced by the Harvard UG (where some of the smartest/wealthiest students have gone for 100s of years), and Harvard Grad (where some of the most preeminent scholars, doctors, and business people have gone). UVA and Duke have what? Strong graduate history programs, okay business schools, and the latter has a good medical school. That's about it. Harvard Law also gets a ton of great PI/Gov't jobs that are prestigious that don't fit inside the really limited (and thus dumb) BL + FC box that TLS salivates over.TLS_Dreamer wrote:
But why aren't UVA and Duke more prestigious than Harvard? If the former schools give you better employment options, aren't people who say Harvard is better just objectively wrong? Why do people give Harvard higher standing? It just makes no sense to me.
I think it's pretty clear why everyone views Harvard as objectively better, regardless of what a couple points on BL + FC employment percentages say.
Harvard >>> Duke > NYU > UVA
- rpupkin
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School
This is true, though TR in particular hated Columbia and left before the minimum of two years that most people put in.jbagelboy wrote:Historically/factually speaking they left the school because prior to WWII it was far less important to actually receive a law degree, and students would satisfy the historical equivalent of 'graduated' once they were able to sit for the bar, whereupon they usually left.RSN wrote:Vicious but actually probably true at the timerpupkin wrote:Yeah, and both dropped out (TR after his first year and FDR after his second). Once they realized how little prestige CLS had compared to HLS and YLS, they knew it wasn't worth their time.curry1 wrote: Franklin Roosevelt and Teddy Roosevelt both went to Columbia law school.
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School
Of those schools, the lay prestige meter reads as follows:Po$eidon wrote:Definitely doesn't beat Berkeley (which has huge lay prestige) or Chicago (which has pretty significant lay prestige).goldenbear2020 wrote:I agree NYU has low lay prestige, but it should beat at least Chicago, Virginia, Berkeley, and maybe Penn (State?).RParadela wrote:Lol NYU has 0 lay prestige. NYU has the least lay prestige out of the T13 IMOvcap180 wrote:the lay prestige meter, which is the only thing that matters, reads as follows:RedPurpleBlue wrote:I'm not sure if you're serious, but I'll bite. Prestige is marginally based on employment statistics. Harvard Law produces presidents, Attorney Generals, Supreme Court Justices, U.S. Representatives, and Senators. UVA and Duke can't even compete in those regards. Combined they have 2 SCOTUS justices (one of whom didn't even graduate UVA and the other served on the court over 70 years ago), two presidents (Wilson didn't even graduate from UVA Law, and Nixon resigned as to not get impeached), and a few Reps./Senators I imagine, but those are few in number compared to Harvard. Plus, Harvard Law gets the added bonus of the prestige produced by the Harvard UG (where some of the smartest/wealthiest students have gone for 100s of years), and Harvard Grad (where some of the most preeminent scholars, doctors, and business people have gone). UVA and Duke have what? Strong graduate history programs, okay business schools, and the latter has a good medical school. That's about it. Harvard Law also gets a ton of great PI/Gov't jobs that are prestigious that don't fit inside the really limited (and thus dumb) BL + FC box that TLS salivates over.TLS_Dreamer wrote:
But why aren't UVA and Duke more prestigious than Harvard? If the former schools give you better employment options, aren't people who say Harvard is better just objectively wrong? Why do people give Harvard higher standing? It just makes no sense to me.
I think it's pretty clear why everyone views Harvard as objectively better, regardless of what a couple points on BL + FC employment percentages say.
Harvard >>> Duke > NYU > UVA
berk>chicago>NYU>Penn>UVA... Incidentally, Michigan would be last among the t13.
This is not my opinion; I have polled a representative sample of laymen.
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