T30 ($$$) vs RETAKE Forum

[Nova]

Hello TLSers. Just want some friendly opinions/advice... This is a hybrid what are my chances/choosing a law school thread.

Currently in at UMN with COA (including COL) at about 60k before interest. My parents live in Iowa and I would not mind living in MN, though I would prefer to return home, to Texas. It seems like a sweet deal to me... but recently I have been considering retaking the June LSAT and possibly sitting out a year. Stats are 3.0/167 URM (MA). My dream school is UT but they have a pretty hard gpa floor. IYO... what LSAT would i need to justify passsing up a substancial scholly to sit out a year and hope and prey to get in UT with $$$/T14. Does the fact that my GPA is so embarassingly low negate any real upside unless I do substancially better? I did not get into UT this year (nor SMU), and I did not apply to T14 because I figured I had no shot.

My main worry is that I score 170, sit out, and then get no offered or only get sticker offers at T14/UT. In that case, I would feel like I should have just attended UMN.

So, should I count my blessings and attend UMN, or roll the dice if I manage a 17*+?

Right now I'm leaning towards attending UMN in the fall.

Thanks!

[Nelson]

Depends on your goals. I'd rather pay sticker at Northwestern (your most likely T14 destination) than attend UMN for free. But if your goal is to work for a small firm in Minnesota, I'd go to UMN this year.

EDIT: You aren't going to get significant money anywhere in the T14, so this comes down to how much you want biglaw vs. how debt averse you are.

[flem]

1) Deposit at UMN
2) Retake June LSAT
3) Wait for score
4) If it's good (170+) roll the dice on next cycle
5) If it's the same or worse, enjoy UMN
6) ???
7) Profit

[romothesavior]

The problem is, if you wanted to retake for June, you probably should have started a few weeks ago to get maximum results. That said, it's not too late. But you really need to buckle down now and get after it. It is worth a shot, and it can't hurt you. I just say this because if you're going to do a retake, you ought to truly commit yourself to it.

[Doorkeeper]

In the past 3 years on LSN I only see 2 people who have been accepted to UT with 3.0 GPAs.

This being said, what school, aside from UT, would you be realistically shooting for if you were to retake and reapply? It's a question worth considering.

You might have a shot at some T14s with a 172-173+, but it would probably be at sticker. I'm thinking most likely GULC or Northwestern. Shot at Cornell and UVA with an EA/ED.

[StarLightSpectre]

Same here but with Boston U.

I got waitlisted at UT. I'm retaking in June to try and get off but I don't know where that magic number is that would warrant sitting through another cycle. Also, I'd be paying more than twice as much to attend UT if I went at sticker than it would cost to attend Boston. Which makes me wonder if not taking the money would be a wise choice at all.

Hopefully there will be some insight here soon.

[CanadianWolf]

tfleming's post above offers great advice, in my opinion. (Deposit at Minnesota & retake in June. Get a 169 or higher & your options as a Mexican-American applicant should greatly increase, although T-14s are questionable but worth an application outside of the T-6 law schools.)

P.S. Interesting use of the word "prey" instead of "pray".

[Nelson]

Same here but with Boston U.

I got waitlisted at UT. I'm retaking in June to try and get off but I don't know where that magic number is that would warrant sitting through another cycle. Also, I'd be paying more than twice as much to attend UT if I went at sticker than it would cost to attend Boston. Which makes me wonder if not taking the money would be a wise choice at all.

Hopefully there will be some insight here soon.

Your profile says you have a 3.8. Your situation is totally different from OP's. You'd be foolish not to retake and reapply.

[Nova]

Depends on your goals. I'd rather pay sticker at Northwestern (your most likely T14 destination) than attend UMN for free. But if your goal is to work for a small firm in Minnesota, I'd go to UMN this year.

EDIT: You aren't going to get significant money anywhere in the T14, so this comes down to how much you want biglaw vs. how debt averse you are.

I am not really big law or bust. I would be fine with working at a small firm, however I would like to keep the option open of returning to Texas.

The problem is, if you wanted to retake for June, you probably should have started a few weeks ago to get maximum results. That said, it's not too late. But you really need to buckle down now and get after it. It is worth a shot, and it can't hurt you. I just say this because if you're going to do a retake, you ought to truly commit yourself to it.

Yeah, true. I have been studying a little (I tutor 3 students who all had 140 or below diagnostics) so that has helped me stay in the groove a bit. On the Dec LSAT I missed 11 on RC (more then I have ever missed on RC) which was the death of my score and reason I feel I can improve. I will start to buckle down NOW and re evaluate myself the day before registration (about a week from now).

Another problem I am having is that I have exhausted the prep tests, so they are no longer real predictors of my score. IE: I score 170+ most the time and about 174 on a good test, but I have already seen every question a few times...

In the past 3 years on LSN I only see 2 people who have been accepted to UT with 3.0 GPAs.

This being said, what school, aside from UT, would you be realistically shooting for if you were to retake and reapply? It's a question worth considering.

You might have a shot at some T14s with a 172-173+, but it would probably be at sticker. I'm thinking most likely GULC or Northwestern. Shot at Cornell and UVA with an EA/ED.

I would love to attend NU/UVA/Duke. I would pick UT with $$ over all of them though.

[Tiago Splitter]

I would love to attend NU/UVA/Duke. I would pick UT with $$ over all of them though.

Sounds like you really want Texas, and Minnesota isn't exactly known for sending its grads to Texas. Same goes for StarLightSpectre. If you guys would much prefer Texas I'm not sure why you're considering heading to schools without national reach in far away markets.

[bk1]

You wouldn't be okay with paying sticker at a T14? Close to sticker might as well be sticker. I'm not sure you can really expect significant money from the T14, but maybe with URM+170 it's possible (I'd check LSN).

[CanadianWolf]

"America's fastest growing cities, 2012" Forbes.com April 25, 2012.

1) Austin
2) Dallas
3) San Jose, California
4) Houston
5) Salt Lake City, Utah

Additionally, if the pipeline from Canada to Houston receives approval from the US Gov't, then Texas oil, gas & real estate work should rise.

[romothesavior]

"America's fastest growing cities, 2012" Forbes.com April 25, 2012.

1) Austin
2) Dallas
3) San Jose, California
4) Houston
5) Salt Lake City, Utah

Additionally, if the pipeline from Canada to Houston receives approval from the US Gov't, then Texas oil, gas & real estate work should rise.

Thanks for the insight. Very relevant to the current discussion.

[Nova]

Sounds like you really want Texas, and Minnesota isn't exactly known for sending its grads to Texas. Same goes for StarLightSpectre. If you guys would much prefer Texas I'm not sure why you're considering heading to schools without national reach in far away markets.

I decided Minn was my best option because I was looking at an insignificant (5k/yr) scholarship at UH, a small scholarship at Tech, and WL at SMU. I figured it would be nice to live 2 hours from my parents and dads side of the family for a while. I really like Minneapolis and all the scandinavian babes there. I would be fine living there "forever", but in a perfect world, I would live in Dallas/Houston/Austin. I would consider my Ties to TX to be legit, as I grew up there and have spent about 20 out of my 22 years living there.

You wouldn't be okay with paying sticker at a T14? Close to sticker might as well be sticker. I'm not sure you can really expect significant money from the T14, but maybe with URM+170 it's possible (I'd check LSN).

This makes me think attending UMN is my best bet aside from getting UT with $$ next cycle. Which seems to be a huge gamble, even if I greatly improve my score.

[bk1]

This makes me think attending UMN is my best bet aside from getting UT with $$ next cycle. Which seems to be a huge gamble, even if I greatly improve my score.

UMN is a gamble, but if you wouldn't take T14+UT at sticker or close to it then I'm not sure you gain anything by retaking. Granted I might be wrong since I haven't looked at what 3.0 URM splitters get (I only really looked at sub3's).

[StarLightSpectre]

Your profile says you have a 3.8. Your situation is totally different from OP's. You'd be foolish not to retake and reapply.

True. Hence me taking in June. But, since I'd be attending BU at roughly 1/3 of the normal cost, I'm still depositing there in in case I don't do much better on my retake. The point I was making is, when does an improvement become significant enough to warrant waiting another cycle and passing on the money. After all in terms of raw placement in to big law BU and UT are not terribly different. I'd rather have big law/legal job anywhere than unemployed and in debt in TX..

But you and Tiago are still right.

[thelawyler]

1) Deposit at UMN
2) Retake June LSAT
3) Wait for score
4) If it's good (170+) roll the dice on next cycle
5) If it's the same or worse, enjoy UMN
6) ???
7) Profit

[cjcarlos24]

I am in a very similar situation, so would appreciate input.

I can go to UMN for free, Colorado for just over $40K, and on wait lists at schools like Chicago and Penn.

I have a 3.86/167 BUT...

My PTs were much higher, generally 170-173. Diagnostic was 174. I took the LSAT twice and got 167 and felt like I bombed both immediately. Day before second I PTed a 180. Didn't feel flukey, just nailed the could-go-either-way Qs and had an easy batch of games.

Why do I suck on test days? I'm a hardcore night owl. I feel like death at 9 AM, have for 23 years. Do I retake and wait for the next cycle? Maybe I can change my body clock, if a little? No desire to re-take in June fwiw.

Also perhaps relevant is I am skeptical of the worth of law school, both financially and...as prep for doing something worthwhile a decent citizen does for a career.

Opportunity cost of attending LS is very small, besides learning another trade. You know, CS or w/e the F.

[Wily]

Random note about December 2011 test - like OP, I also bombed the crap out of the RC, which I've NEVER done before. I was like, -2 LR, -4 LG, -10 RC or something like that to get a 168. I think it was a damnably hard section.

[Wart]

As a general rule, don't go to a law school that you are not totally stoked to go to. What ifs suck.

From what I've seen, there are far more people who regret going to a lower ranked law school, than people who regret their decision to wait a year and retake. At the very least, you'll have saved up some more money.

[Nova]

I have a 3.86/167 BUT...

My PTs were much higher, generally 170-173. Diagnostic was 174. I took the LSAT twice and got 167 and felt like I bombed both immediately. Day before second I PTed a 180. Didn't feel flukey, just nailed the could-go-either-way Qs and had an easy batch of games.

Do I retake and wait for the next cycle?

With your GPA and score band, you would be a crazy not to...

Random note about December 2011 test - like OP, I also bombed the crap out of the RC, which I've NEVER done before. I was like, -2 LR, -4 LG, -10 RC or something like that to get a 168. I think it was a damnably hard section.

I had a feeling I was not alone. I missed 2 LG, and 4 LR.

1) Deposit at UMN
2) Retake June LSAT
3) Wait for score
4) If it's good (170+) roll the dice on next cycle
5) If it's the same or worse, enjoy UMN
6) ???
7) Profit

This is likely now the plan.

[Ignatius]

I am in a very similar situation, so would appreciate input.

I can go to UMN for free, Colorado for just over $40K, and on wait lists at schools like Chicago and Penn.

I have a 3.86/167 BUT...

My PTs were much higher, generally 170-173. Diagnostic was 174. I took the LSAT twice and got 167 and felt like I bombed both immediately. Day before second I PTed a 180. Didn't feel flukey, just nailed the could-go-either-way Qs and had an easy batch of games.

Why do I suck on test days? I'm a hardcore night owl. I feel like death at 9 AM, have for 23 years. Do I retake and wait for the next cycle? Maybe I can change my body clock, if a little? No desire to re-take in June fwiw.

Also perhaps relevant is I am skeptical of the worth of law school, both financially and...as prep for doing something worthwhile a decent citizen does for a career.

Opportunity cost of attending LS is very small, besides learning another trade. You know, CS or w/e the F.

damn...that is some diagnostic.

[cjcarlos24]

I am in a very similar situation, so would appreciate input.

I can go to UMN for free, Colorado for just over $40K, and on wait lists at schools like Chicago and Penn.

I have a 3.86/167 BUT...

My PTs were much higher, generally 170-173. Diagnostic was 174. I took the LSAT twice and got 167 and felt like I bombed both immediately. Day before second I PTed a 180. Didn't feel flukey, just nailed the could-go-either-way Qs and had an easy batch of games.

Why do I suck on test days? I'm a hardcore night owl. I feel like death at 9 AM, have for 23 years. Do I retake and wait for the next cycle? Maybe I can change my body clock, if a little? No desire to re-take in June fwiw.

Also perhaps relevant is I am skeptical of the worth of law school, both financially and...as prep for doing something worthwhile a decent citizen does for a career.

Opportunity cost of attending LS is very small, besides learning another trade. You know, CS or w/e the F.

damn...that is some diagnostic.

On second thought, my diagnostic wasn't that good. I didn't finish Logic Games in 35 mins. It would be hard to nail that without any prep. But still, I had a solid grasp of Log Reas. and RC.