Michigan (Darrow) vs. HLS Forum

[Fresh]

Has this thread been done before? Kinda. Trolling for either school is ok.

Want BigLaw
Would graduate Michigan with nearly $0 in debt; HLS with > $100k
Prefer Ann Arbor (strong ties) to Boston, but open to moving anywhere after law school

Discuss

[northwood]

there is no wrong choice, but since you perfer ann arbor to boston- then michigan it is.

[BarbellDreams]

I am generally anti-giving up HLS for anything. Its HARVARD!

With that said assuming no stips on the Darrow I would take Michigan with 0 debt.

[Older Chest]

Fresh - As a big fan of yours, I feel like the sky is the limit. Either way, you will be successful. If it were me, I would take the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to go to Harvard. There are people that would prefer the Darrow at Michigan though. It will likely come down to preference, but I really don't think you can make a wrong choice.

Just wondering: is Yale out of the picture? Your cycle has been so successful, I would be surprised if you didn't get a flyer from Yale as well.

[ndirish2010]

Michigan.

[Fresh]

Just wondering: is Yale out of the picture? Your cycle has been so successful, I would be surprised if you didn't get a flyer from Yale as well.

I really appreciate the support man! Yale is not out of the picture at all. I'm actually hoping to have a couple of other options for my final decision (incl. Yale, please!!!), but I figured the 'Darrow vs. HLS' debate alone is useful for a lot more people on this board that have these options.

I am generally anti-giving up HLS for anything. Its HARVARD!

With that said assuming no stips on the Darrow I would take Michigan with 0 debt.

I kinda feel the same way which makes it easier to imagine giving up my michigan ties. The only stip on the Darrow is 2.0 GPA (Michigan curves to 3.1X I think).

[jcunni5]

I'm gonna say Michigan unless you can get YLS (maybe SLS) or you badly want academia. HLS is too much of a degree mill to give up a full ride at a T10

[AreJay711]

Hmmm, I think it depends what you want to do: Michigan for a firm job, Harvard for everything else (academia, govt, high profile clerkship, high profile PI)

[09042014]

The 140K you save is worth years of working in big law to pay down debt.

The lost opportunity between HLS and Michigan just isn't enough, especially when you don't even know you will like law.

[LLB2JD]

Fresh, come to UVA..lol

Ok... channeling what was said up there, you don't have a wrong choice. The Darrow is super prestigious. Remember, it'll be on you resume as a "Darrow Scholar". Going to Michigan means you could literally sleep 16hrs/day between May 2014 - May 2015.
Although Harvard is Harvard, I don't think you'll have opportunities that would open up at Harvard close up by going to Michigan.

Great cycle bro. Good luck with your decision.



And yea, come to UVA...

[LLB2JD]

Just wondering: is Yale out of the picture? Your cycle has been so successful, I would be surprised if you didn't get a flyer from Yale as well.

I really appreciate the support man! Yale is not out of the picture at all. I'm actually hoping to have a couple of other options for my final decision (incl. Yale, please!!!), but I figured the 'Darrow vs. HLS' debate alone is useful for a lot more people on this board that have these options.

I am generally anti-giving up HLS for anything. Its HARVARD!

With that said assuming no stips on the Darrow I would take Michigan with 0 debt.

I kinda feel the same way which makes it easier to imagine giving up my michigan ties. The only stip on the Darrow is 2.0 GPA (Michigan curves to 3.1X I think).

Nobody dips below 2.0

Besides, if you were to graduate with 2.1 (which is not going to happen), you'll still have $0 debt.

[seespotrun]

Is the prospect of working at WLRK, clerking for SCOTUS, and wearing HLS hoodies worth ~$150,000 to you?

[icouldbuyu]

I was originally going to say HLS, but I have changed my mind. If you want big law, then Michigan is still a great school. Essentially, if you do get big law out of michigan with no debt, it's like hitting lotto. You can buy a bentley your first year; whereas, you likely won't afford to do that out of HLS.

[Fresh]

The 140K you save is worth years of working in big law to pay down debt.

The lost opportunity between HLS and Michigan just isn't enough, especially when you don't even know you will like law.

I agree w/ the debt factor 100%. But wouldn't some say that if I ever want to work outside of law, a Harvard degree is more useful? I.e.:

Hmmm, I think it depends what you want to do: Michigan for a firm job, Harvard for everything else (academia, govt, high profile clerkship, high profile PI)

Ok... channeling what was said up there, you don't have a wrong choice. Taking id Darrow is super prestigious. Remember, it'll be on you resume as a "Darrow Scholar".

This matters a lot. Of course I don't know much yet, but apparently Darrow Fellows are closely mentored as well.

I'm gonna say Michigan unless you can get YLS (maybe SLS) or you badly want academia. HLS is too much of a degree mill to give up a full ride at a T10

99% sure I don't want academia (for a long time at least), but outside of TLS is HLS really considered a degree mill?

[Fresh]

Is the prospect of working at WLRK, clerking for SCOTUS, and wearing HLS hoodies worth ~$150,000 to you?

I see both WLRK and SCOTUS clerkships as a needle in the haystack either way

Essentially, if you do get big law out of michigan with no debt, it's like hitting lotto. You can buy a bentley your first year; whereas, you likely won't afford to do that out of HLS.

[LAWLAW09]

I've talked with (only) 5-6 AA biglaw lawyers (Columbia/NYU/UVA law grads; of cousel for a small and big firms, as well as places such as The World Bank; all work in DC, most of them are involved in the hiring process of new hires), and none of them would tell you to go to Harvard.

They all are encouraging me to go into Big Law. And, all have advised me that if my options include a handful of "top" schools, in addition to Harvard, I should go where the money is. They don't believe that I (AA male) would be at any biglaw/competitive disadantage turning down Harvard. (Your numbers are much better than mine.) They were big on the advantages of graduating with as little debt as possible. (Some of my other posts detail their advice.)

Tough choice ahead. Good luck.

[Bildungsroman]

Not sure the ability to wear Harvard scarves and constantly bring it up in conversation is worth $150,000. Granted the opportunities out of Harvard are better, but you're talking about a palpable difference in quality of life with such an enormous debt burden vs. just whatever COL loans you'll need to take out.

[Fresh]

They all are encouraging me to go into Big Law. And, all have advised me that if my options include a handful of "top" schools, in addition to Harvard, I should go where the money is. They don't believe that I (AA male) would be at any biglaw/competitive disadantage turning down Harvard. (Your numbers are much better than mine.) They were big on the advantages of graduating with as little debt as possible. (Some of my other posts detail their advice.)

Very very helpful. I'm looking back at the details. Thank you!

[Sentry]

I would go with Harvard because you could be part of the Harvard BLSA. Which can give you some major connections for government/political work.

[seespotrun]

Is the prospect of working at WLRK, clerking for SCOTUS, and wearing HLS hoodies worth ~$150,000 to you?

I see both WLRK and SCOTUS clerkships as a needle in the haystack either way.

That was going to be my follow-up response. Making this decision requires a personal-utility analysis. It seems that you have all of the right information out there regarding the opportunity costs of attending either school vs. the other.

tl;dr: How much is HLS on a resume (or a sweatshirt for that matter) worth for you? Best of luck, and congratulations to you for having such great opportunities.

[run26.2]

While people style Harvard as a degree mill, it also has a network unlike any other law school in the country. You will have a better chance at being appointed to the federal bench if you go to Harvard (or running for elected office). You will simply know more people that you graduated alongside you that are in more influential positions than you will at Michigan.

I personally think the debt issue is a very short-term consideration. It will be burdensome for awhile, but you will get out of debt. That type of obligation, to me, anyway, is a motivator to work harder. It would keep me hungry (possibly literally!) and focused.

The additional opportunities you will have coming out of Harvard may not show up immediately, but down the road they will begin to emerge.

All that said, you're in a great spot. Congrats.

[Bildungsroman]

While people style Harvard as a degree mill, it also has a network unlike any other law school in the country. You will have a better chance at being appointed to the federal bench if you go to Harvard (or running for elected office). You will simply know more people that you graduated alongside you that are in more influential positions than you will at Michigan.

I personally think the debt issue is a very short-term consideration. It will be burdensome for awhile, but you will get out of debt. That type of obligation, to me, anyway, is a motivator to work harder. It would keep me hungry (possibly literally!) and focused.

The additional opportunities you will have coming out of Harvard may not show up immediately, but down the road they will begin to emerge.

All that said, you're in a great spot. Congrats.

Summarized:

You will be crushed by debt for several decades but will have a better chance at getting a position that you will still have almost no chance of getting.

[run26.2]

While people style Harvard as a degree mill, it also has a network unlike any other law school in the country. You will have a better chance at being appointed to the federal bench if you go to Harvard (or running for elected office). You will simply know more people that you graduated alongside you that are in more influential positions than you will at Michigan.

I personally think the debt issue is a very short-term consideration. It will be burdensome for awhile, but you will get out of debt. That type of obligation, to me, anyway, is a motivator to work harder. It would keep me hungry (possibly literally!) and focused.

The additional opportunities you will have coming out of Harvard may not show up immediately, but down the road they will begin to emerge.

All that said, you're in a great spot. Congrats.

Summarized:

You will be crushed by debt for several decades but will have a better chance at getting a position that you will still have almost no chance of getting.

Personally, I'd rather take the chance at the unlikely than wonder what if. Leaders are not characterized by consistently playing it safe.

[paulinaporizkova]

I voted Harvard. That being said, I want to be you

[icouldbuyu]

I voted Harvard. That being said, I want to be you

+1, deff want to be you