T14 for West Coast (LA) Forum
- TheWire
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T14 for West Coast (LA)
So, I've seen the Chicago and NY forms, and I think it's time to rank which schools will place best in LA/California. I've gotten into some great East Coast schools but I eventually want to be back in California so this is of great interest to me. I'll start it off:
1. Stanford/Yale
3. Harvard
4. Columbia/Boalt
6. University of Chicago/ NYU
8. UCLA
9. UPENN
10. USC
11. Michigan/Duke/Georgetown/UVA/Cornell/Northwestern
Correct my crap shoot!
1. Stanford/Yale
3. Harvard
4. Columbia/Boalt
6. University of Chicago/ NYU
8. UCLA
9. UPENN
10. USC
11. Michigan/Duke/Georgetown/UVA/Cornell/Northwestern
Correct my crap shoot!
Last edited by TheWire on Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- MC Southstar
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)
Umm, on what grounds did you put UPENN in between UCLA and USC and above the other rabble?
-
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)
I sure hope Michigan isn't that low.
EDIT:
Yale
Stanford/Harvard
Columbia
Chicago/Boalt
NYU
Michigan/UCLA/Penn
UVA/Duke/Cornell/Georgetown/USC
Maybe those last two lines could be collapsed, but the line order would still marginally matter.
EDIT:
Yale
Stanford/Harvard
Columbia
Chicago/Boalt
NYU
Michigan/UCLA/Penn
UVA/Duke/Cornell/Georgetown/USC
Maybe those last two lines could be collapsed, but the line order would still marginally matter.
Last edited by tumbleweed664 on Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- TheWire
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- Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:24 pm
Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)
^^^^^
PPl here seem to LOVE ucla...they think it is essentially an ivy of the west coast. However UPENN is an ivy and in the pretentious field of law I thought that might give them a one up over usc...this is clearly and obviously based on little evidence...just my $.02. I'd love to hear yours tho...
PPl here seem to LOVE ucla...they think it is essentially an ivy of the west coast. However UPENN is an ivy and in the pretentious field of law I thought that might give them a one up over usc...this is clearly and obviously based on little evidence...just my $.02. I'd love to hear yours tho...
- RVP11
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)
Yale/Stanford
Harvard
Columbia/Chicago
Boalt
Penn/NYU/Michigan/UVA/Duke/Northwestern
UCLA/Cornell/GULC
USC
Even then, I'm hesitant about placing UCLA as an equal with Cornell/GULC. Might place worse than those two.
Harvard
Columbia/Chicago
Boalt
Penn/NYU/Michigan/UVA/Duke/Northwestern
UCLA/Cornell/GULC
USC
Even then, I'm hesitant about placing UCLA as an equal with Cornell/GULC. Might place worse than those two.
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- TheWire
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)
I really like this list...however, I would NOT discount UCLA's placement in the LA market. I ASSURE you from being here that ucla>cornell...ucla simply has much much better networking with the firms here...think texas in texasJSUVA2012 wrote:Yale/Stanford
Harvard
Columbia/Chicago
Boalt
Penn/NYU/Michigan/UVA/Duke/Northwestern
UCLA/Cornell/GULC
USC
Even then, I'm hesitant about placing UCLA as an equal with Cornell/GULC. Might place worse than those two.
- kurama20
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)
1.Yale/Stanford/Harvard (Harvard's placement in Cali is at worst the same as Stanford's)
2.Columbia
2.Boalt
3.Chicago
4.NYU
4.Michigan
And then everyone else
These listed schools run Cali. I've looked into this a lot since it's a market I was heavily considering at one point.
2.Columbia
2.Boalt
3.Chicago
4.NYU
4.Michigan
And then everyone else
These listed schools run Cali. I've looked into this a lot since it's a market I was heavily considering at one point.
- TheWire
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- Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:24 pm
Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)
I'm really interested in this...may i hear your perspective on how Michigan outplaces UCLA?kurama20 wrote:1.Yale/Stanford/Harvard (Harvard's placement in Cali is at worst the same as Stanford's)
2.Columbia
2.Boalt
3.Chicago
4.NYU
4.Michigan
And then everyone else
These listed schools run Cali. I've looked into this a lot since it's a market I was heavily considering at one point.
Thanks
- jonas586
- Posts: 88
- Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:21 am
Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)
These rankings are whackTheWire wrote:So, I've seen the Chicago and NY forms, and I think it's time to rank which schools will place best in LA/California. I've gotten into some great East Coast schools but I eventually want to be back in California so this is of great interest to me. I'll start it off:
1. Stanford/Yale
3. Harvard
4. Columbia/Boalt
6. University of Chicago/ NYU
8. UCLA
9. UPENN
10. USC
11. Michigan/Duke/Georgetown/UVA/Cornell/Northwestern
Correct my crap shoot!
- RVP11
- Posts: 2774
- Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:32 pm
Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)
Boalt outplacing Chicago? I'd say no. I don't think there's going to be a discernible difference between Penn, NYU, Michigan, UVA, Duke, and Northwestern, either.
- RVP11
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- Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:32 pm
Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)
Michigan's a T14. And I also placed them above UCLA, yet you said you really liked my list?TheWire wrote:I'm really interested in this...may i hear your perspective on how Michigan outplaces UCLA?kurama20 wrote:1.Yale/Stanford/Harvard (Harvard's placement in Cali is at worst the same as Stanford's)
2.Columbia
2.Boalt
3.Chicago
4.NYU
4.Michigan
And then everyone else
These listed schools run Cali. I've looked into this a lot since it's a market I was heavily considering at one point.
Thanks
- nematoad
- Posts: 419
- Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 3:06 pm
Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)
not that it matters, but most people on the west coast who arent very familiar with the law have no clue that michigan and virginia are good law schools. but they arent the crowd that matter.
- TheWire
- Posts: 479
- Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:24 pm
Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^TheWire wrote:So, I've seen the Chicago and NY forms, and I think it's time to rank which schools will place best in LA/California. I've gotten into some great East Coast schools but I eventually want to be back in California so this is of great interest to me. I'll start it off:
1. Stanford/Yale
3. Harvard
4. Columbia/Boalt
6. University of Chicago/ NYU
8. UCLA
9. UPENN
10. USC
11. Michigan/Duke/Georgetown/UVA/Cornell/Northwestern
Correct my crap shoot!
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- kurama20
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)
I know so. You're heavily underestimating home town advantage. Boalt runs Cali after HYS (it's basically tied with Columbia out there). You can really see Boalt's Cali strength with the very selective lit boutiques in Cali (Irell, Keker, Munger)Chicago is barely behind them though. It's sort of akin to how Columbia and Chicago really don't do much better than UVA in DC. Part of the reason Boalt can pull the "no grade" system even though they aren't HYS is because of how they are viewed in the Cali market. From what I've seen/heard from people, Cali firms don't even see Boalt as being that far below Stanford.JSUVA2012 wrote:Boalt outplacing Chicago? I'd say no. I don't think there's going to be a discernible difference between Penn, NYU, Michigan, UVA, Duke, and Northwestern, either.
It just does. Michigan has a very strong reputation/network in Cali. I think a lot of it has to do with many Michigan alums and attendees being from California. The only schools that really outdo Michigan in Cali are HYS, CC, and Boalt. However it's not just because they are top 14. Cornell will not be out placing UCLA and USC in SoCal.TheWire wrote:I'm really interested in this...may i hear your perspective on how Michigan outplaces UCLA?kurama20 wrote:1.Yale/Stanford/Harvard (Harvard's placement in Cali is at worst the same as Stanford's)
2.Columbia
2.Boalt
3.Chicago
4.NYU
4.Michigan
And then everyone else
These listed schools run Cali. I've looked into this a lot since it's a market I was heavily considering at one point.
Thanks
- NayBoer
- Posts: 1013
- Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:24 pm
Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)
I'd place a premium on being in California, both for CA xenophobia and for ease of getting to opportunities.
- RVP11
- Posts: 2774
- Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:32 pm
Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)
You're heavily overestimating your own knowledge, and underestimating self-selection. "Home town advantage" only goes so far - markets get flooded with their local school's grads, and firms like to maintain diversity in each shrinking SA class.kurama20 wrote:I know so. You're heavily underestimating home town advantage. Boalt runs Cali after HYS (it's basically tied with Columbia out there). You can really see Boalt's Cali strength with the very selective lit boutiques in Cali (Irell, Keker, Munger)Chicago is barely behind them though. It's sort of akin to how Columbia and Chicago really don't do much better than UVA in DC. Part of the reason Boalt can pull the "no grade" system even though they aren't HYS is because of how they are viewed in the Cali market. From what I've seen/heard from people, Cali firms don't even see Boalt as being that far below Stanford.JSUVA2012 wrote:Boalt outplacing Chicago? I'd say no. I don't think there's going to be a discernible difference between Penn, NYU, Michigan, UVA, Duke, and Northwestern, either.
And yes, Columbia and Chicago do better than UVA just about everywhere. Including in DC.
Please talk to more 2Ls or 1Ls who are clued in to how OCI went this last fall. "Cross-coasters" and people who avoided the markets most of their classmates went for did quite well. Getting DC BigLaw from UVA was much harder than getting DC BigLaw from YHSCC.
- TheWire
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- Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:24 pm
Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)
this is kind've the entire point i was trying to make...people are just a little critical of exact number rankings i gave...i appreciate your more informed opinionkurama20 wrote:I know so. You're heavily underestimating home town advantage. Boalt runs Cali after HYS (it's basically tied with Columbia out there). You can really see Boalt's Cali strength with the very selective lit boutiques in Cali (Irell, Keker, Munger)Chicago is barely behind them though. It's sort of akin to how Columbia and Chicago really don't do much better than UVA in DC. Part of the reason Boalt can pull the "no grade" system even though they aren't HYS is because of how they are viewed in the Cali market. From what I've seen/heard from people, Cali firms don't even see Boalt as being that far below Stanford.JSUVA2012 wrote:Boalt outplacing Chicago? I'd say no. I don't think there's going to be a discernible difference between Penn, NYU, Michigan, UVA, Duke, and Northwestern, either.
It just does. Michigan has a very strong reputation/network in Cali. I think a lot of it has to do with many Michigan alums and attendees being from California. The only schools that really outdo Michigan in Cali are HYS, CC, and Boalt. However it's not just because they are top 14. Cornell will not be out placing UCLA and USC in SoCal.TheWire wrote:I'm really interested in this...may i hear your perspective on how Michigan outplaces UCLA?kurama20 wrote:1.Yale/Stanford/Harvard (Harvard's placement in Cali is at worst the same as Stanford's)
2.Columbia
2.Boalt
3.Chicago
4.NYU
4.Michigan
And then everyone else
These listed schools run Cali. I've looked into this a lot since it's a market I was heavily considering at one point.
Thanks
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)
I think this is generally wrong. I'd guess a UCLA median student would beat a median Cornell student with no CA ties. However, I'd much rather be a median Cornell student with excellent CA ties (grew up there/family, etc.) than a median UCLA student.kurama20 wrote:I know so. You're heavily underestimating home town advantage. Boalt runs Cali after HYS (it's basically tied with Columbia out there). You can really see Boalt's Cali strength with the very selective lit boutiques in Cali (Irell, Keker, Munger)Chicago is barely behind them though. It's sort of akin to how Columbia and Chicago really don't do much better than UVA in DC. Part of the reason Boalt can pull the "no grade" system even though they aren't HYS is because of how they are viewed in the Cali market. From what I've seen/heard from people, Cali firms don't even see Boalt as being that far below Stanford.JSUVA2012 wrote:Boalt outplacing Chicago? I'd say no. I don't think there's going to be a discernible difference between Penn, NYU, Michigan, UVA, Duke, and Northwestern, either.
It just does. Michigan has a very strong reputation/network in Cali. I think a lot of it has to do with many Michigan alums and attendees being from California. The only schools that really outdo Michigan in Cali are HYS, CC, and Boalt. However it's not just because they are top 14. Cornell will not be out placing UCLA and USC in SoCal.TheWire wrote:I'm really interested in this...may i hear your perspective on how Michigan outplaces UCLA?kurama20 wrote:1.Yale/Stanford/Harvard (Harvard's placement in Cali is at worst the same as Stanford's)
2.Columbia
2.Boalt
3.Chicago
4.NYU
4.Michigan
And then everyone else
These listed schools run Cali. I've looked into this a lot since it's a market I was heavily considering at one point.
Thanks
I think in this thread, as usual, people are confusing raw numbers and relative ease of getting a job.
- RVP11
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- Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:32 pm
Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)
+1markymark wrote:
I think this is generally wrong. I'd guess a UCLA median student would beat a median Cornell student with no CA ties. However, I'd much rather be a median Cornell student with excellent CA ties (grew up there/family, etc.) than a median UCLA student.
I think in this thread, as usual, people are confusing raw numbers and relative ease of getting a job.
Any T14 + CA ties > UCLA/USC
-
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)
I'm pretty sure that's just because DC is the most competitive primary market and YHSCC are more competitive schools. It doesn't suggest that "cross-coasting" is the thing now. California is easier to get than DC.JSUVA2012 wrote: Please talk to more 2Ls or 1Ls who are clued in to how OCI went this last fall. "Cross-coasters" and people who avoided the markets most of their classmates went for did quite well. Getting DC BigLaw from UVA was much harder than getting DC BigLaw from YHSCC.
- TheWire
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)
not even...if u ask around any firms in LA, theyre almost 1/2 ucla 1/2 usc..u kind've cant discount that...do u think WUSTL has no pull in St. Louis?JSUVA2012 wrote:+1markymark wrote:
I think this is generally wrong. I'd guess a UCLA median student would beat a median Cornell student with no CA ties. However, I'd much rather be a median Cornell student with excellent CA ties (grew up there/family, etc.) than a median UCLA student.
I think in this thread, as usual, people are confusing raw numbers and relative ease of getting a job.
Any T14 + CA ties > UCLA/USC
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)
I'd agree with this, although I think Chicago might be ranked higher than Boalt.kurama20 wrote:1.Yale/Stanford/Harvard (Harvard's placement in Cali is at worst the same as Stanford's)
2.Columbia
2.Boalt
3.Chicago
4.NYU
4.Michigan
And then everyone else
These listed schools run Cali. I've looked into this a lot since it's a market I was heavily considering at one point.
-
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- Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 11:54 am
Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)
This post is 100% what I was thinking. Spot on analysis.JSUVA2012 wrote:You're heavily overestimating your own knowledge, and underestimating self-selection. "Home town advantage" only goes so far - markets get flooded with their local school's grads, and firms like to maintain diversity in each shrinking SA class.kurama20 wrote:I know so. You're heavily underestimating home town advantage. Boalt runs Cali after HYS (it's basically tied with Columbia out there). You can really see Boalt's Cali strength with the very selective lit boutiques in Cali (Irell, Keker, Munger)Chicago is barely behind them though. It's sort of akin to how Columbia and Chicago really don't do much better than UVA in DC. Part of the reason Boalt can pull the "no grade" system even though they aren't HYS is because of how they are viewed in the Cali market. From what I've seen/heard from people, Cali firms don't even see Boalt as being that far below Stanford.JSUVA2012 wrote:Boalt outplacing Chicago? I'd say no. I don't think there's going to be a discernible difference between Penn, NYU, Michigan, UVA, Duke, and Northwestern, either.
And yes, Columbia and Chicago do better than UVA just about everywhere. Including in DC.
Please talk to more 2Ls or 1Ls who are clued in to how OCI went this last fall. "Cross-coasters" and people who avoided the markets most of their classmates went for did quite well. Getting DC BigLaw from UVA was much harder than getting DC BigLaw from YHSCC.
- RVP11
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)
I wasn't using the DC BigLaw thing as supporting evidence for "cross-coasting" or picking against a school's primary market. Sorry if the way I phrased that was confusing.postitnotes wrote:I'm pretty sure that's just because DC is the most competitive primary market and YHSCC are more competitive schools. It doesn't suggest that "cross-coasting" is the thing now. California is easier to get than DC.JSUVA2012 wrote: Please talk to more 2Ls or 1Ls who are clued in to how OCI went this last fall. "Cross-coasters" and people who avoided the markets most of their classmates went for did quite well. Getting DC BigLaw from UVA was much harder than getting DC BigLaw from YHSCC.
- RVP11
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Re: T14 for West Coast (LA)
Also, consider that probably half of each UVA class has some significant relation to DC and want to practice there. Can you honestly say the same about YHSCC? No.postitnotes wrote:I'm pretty sure that's just because DC is the most competitive primary market and YHSCC are more competitive schools. It doesn't suggest that "cross-coasting" is the thing now. California is easier to get than DC.JSUVA2012 wrote: Please talk to more 2Ls or 1Ls who are clued in to how OCI went this last fall. "Cross-coasters" and people who avoided the markets most of their classmates went for did quite well. Getting DC BigLaw from UVA was much harder than getting DC BigLaw from YHSCC.
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