Touro Law vs. Suffolk Law Forum

[johnnyquest]

Have you spoken to any alumni from each school or attorneys that practice in your desired market? It sounds like Touro is the right call here as their employment score on LST is higher than Suffolk and the employment isn't too bad compared to other schools in the Northeast. I wouldn't dive too deep into the TLS "retake" theory. If you are comfortable with your situation, that's all that matters but I think you should definitely reach out to a few attorneys in your desired market to get some advice. You also shouldn't bank on transferring because you're being graded on a curve so the odds are stacked against you to crack to 20% but Touro is the right call here

OP, this is horrible advice.

[cricketlove00]

Have you spoken to any alumni from each school or attorneys that practice in your desired market? It sounds like Touro is the right call here as their employment score on LST is higher than Suffolk and the employment isn't too bad compared to other schools in the Northeast. I wouldn't dive too deep into the TLS "retake" theory. If you are comfortable with your situation, that's all that matters but I think you should definitely reach out to a few attorneys in your desired market to get some advice. You also shouldn't bank on transferring because you're being graded on a curve so the odds are stacked against you to crack to 20% but Touro is the right call here

OP, this is horrible advice.

Just no. omg

[InTheHouse]

I was thinking of transferring by demonstration of my grades / class rank --I really wanted CUNY or Fordham

I don't understand people who, as a way of demonstrating their ability to succeed in law school, prefer going through a whole year of law school (for the low price of tens of thousands of dollars) over retaking a single learnable standardized test (that could net you ten of thousands of dollars in scholarship money).

Also, that Young Marino guy. Wow. Advice that bad should get you banned.

[Young Marino]

I have to decide by Monday where to go
Suffolk 60% scholarship
Touro 50% scholarship

They end up total cost about the same.
GPA: 3.7 LSAT 151 (that was best I could do...not for me to retake)

Main concentration: Public Interest and Immigration / Sex Trafficking

My current Pro and Cons are:
Pro:
Touro: Class size = big fish small pond. People are so welcoming and have non-profits and agencies located inside law school. LIRR to NYC
Suffolk: Already in the city, variety of clinical, pro bono opportunities directly in my concentration

Con:
Touro: More remote suburban area, less recognition as law school since its so new
Suffolk: Double class size, more competitive to stand out

Please let me know what your thoughts are. Greatly appreciate it!

Have you spoken to any alumni from each school or attorneys that practice in your desired market? It sounds like Touro is the right call here as their employment score on LST is higher than Suffolk and the employment isn't too bad compared to other schools in the Northeast. I wouldn't dive too deep into the TLS "retake" theory. If you are comfortable with your situation, that's all that matters but I think you should definitely reach out to a few attorneys in your desired market to get some advice. You also shouldn't bank on transferring because you're being graded on a curve so the odds are stacked against you to crack to 20% but Touro is the right call here

Young Marino, you're possibly the worst poster on TLS. How many lives must you ruin before you're satisfied? Just because you're intent on not retaking and attending a TTTT doesn't mean you should encourage others to make an equally bone-headed decision.

There are plenty of attorneys who have graduated with six figure debts and end up doing well. I know a few of them myself. I just don't think "retaking" is as great as a strategy as you guys say when it's been shown that in most cases, people who retake increase their score by 2-3 points on average. You can't possibly tell me 2-3 points more is worth sitting out yet another year. In some circumstances it may mean increased scholly $$$ but most of the time, students are stuck in the situation they were in prior to retaking. How many lives have you ruined by making people put their dreams on hold for 3 years so they can join you and the rest of the elitist prestige whores on this site? I'm here for the regional law student that doesn't need a "prestigious" degree.

[bjsesq]

There are plenty of attorneys who have graduated with six figure debts and end up doing well. I know a few of them myself. I just don't think "retaking" is as great as a strategy as you guys say when it's been shown that in most cases, people who retake increase their score by 2-3 points on average. You can't possibly tell me 2-3 points more is worth sitting out yet another year. In some circumstances it may mean increased scholly $$$ but most of the time, students are stuck in the situation they were in prior to retaking. How many lives have you ruined by making people put their dreams on hold for 3 years so they can join you and the rest of the elitist prestige whores on this site? I'm here for the regional law student that doesn't need a "prestigious" degree.

I'd be with you except for the fact that "prestigious" is all but synonymous with "better employment outcomes." Maybe you should take a break from giving advice for a bit.

[InTheHouse]

There are plenty of attorneys who have graduated with six figure debts and end up doing well. I know a few of them myself. I just don't think "retaking" is as great as a strategy as you guys say when it's been shown that in most cases, people who retake increase their score by 2-3 points on average. You can't possibly tell me 2-3 points more is worth sitting out yet another year. In some circumstances it may mean increased scholly $$$ but most of the time, students are stuck in the situation they were in prior to retaking. How many lives have you ruined by making people put their dreams on hold for 3 years so they can join you and the rest of the elitist prestige whores on this site? I'm here for the regional law student that doesn't need a "prestigious" degree.

Anecdote =/= data.

On a related note, plenty of people have dropped out of college and ended up starting billion dollar corporations. Wish I'd dropped out college and started my billion dollar corporation.

[cricketlove00]

I have to decide by Monday where to go
Suffolk 60% scholarship
Touro 50% scholarship

They end up total cost about the same.
GPA: 3.7 LSAT 151 (that was best I could do...not for me to retake)

Main concentration: Public Interest and Immigration / Sex Trafficking

My current Pro and Cons are:
Pro:
Touro: Class size = big fish small pond. People are so welcoming and have non-profits and agencies located inside law school. LIRR to NYC
Suffolk: Already in the city, variety of clinical, pro bono opportunities directly in my concentration

Con:
Touro: More remote suburban area, less recognition as law school since its so new
Suffolk: Double class size, more competitive to stand out

Please let me know what your thoughts are. Greatly appreciate it!

Have you spoken to any alumni from each school or attorneys that practice in your desired market? It sounds like Touro is the right call here as their employment score on LST is higher than Suffolk and the employment isn't too bad compared to other schools in the Northeast. I wouldn't dive too deep into the TLS "retake" theory. If you are comfortable with your situation, that's all that matters but I think you should definitely reach out to a few attorneys in your desired market to get some advice. You also shouldn't bank on transferring because you're being graded on a curve so the odds are stacked against you to crack to 20% but Touro is the right call here

Young Marino, you're possibly the worst poster on TLS. How many lives must you ruin before you're satisfied? Just because you're intent on not retaking and attending a TTTT doesn't mean you should encourage others to make an equally bone-headed decision.

There are plenty of attorneys who have graduated with six figure debts and end up doing well. I know a few of them myself. I just don't think "retaking" is as great as a strategy as you guys say when it's been shown that in most cases, people who retake increase their score by 2-3 points on average. You can't possibly tell me 2-3 points more is worth sitting out yet another year. In some circumstances it may mean increased scholly $$$ but most of the time, students are stuck in the situation they were in prior to retaking. How many lives have you ruined by making people put their dreams on hold for 3 years so they can join you and the rest of the elitist prestige whores on this site? I'm here for the regional law student that doesn't need a "prestigious" degree.

I hate to break it to you, dude, but 2-3 points can actually make a world of difference. Take a look at lsn.

In my case, people who got 3 points higher than me are getting scholarships that are substantially higher than mine.

[McAvoy]

There are plenty of attorneys who have graduated with six figure debts and end up doing well. I know a few of them myself. I just don't think "retaking" is as great as a strategy as you guys say when it's been shown that in most cases, people who retake increase their score by 2-3 points on average. You can't possibly tell me 2-3 points more is worth sitting out yet another year. In some circumstances it may mean increased scholly $$$ but most of the time, students are stuck in the situation they were in prior to retaking. How many lives have you ruined by making people put their dreams on hold for 3 years so they can join you and the rest of the elitist prestige whores on this site? I'm here for the regional law student that doesn't need a "prestigious" degree.

Young Marino, you're possibly the worst poster on TLS.

[TheSpanishMain]

There are plenty of attorneys who have graduated with six figure debts and end up doing well. I know a few of them myself. I just don't think "retaking" is as great as a strategy as you guys say when it's been shown that in most cases, people who retake increase their score by 2-3 points on average. You can't possibly tell me 2-3 points more is worth sitting out yet another year. In some circumstances it may mean increased scholly $$$ but most of the time, students are stuck in the situation they were in prior to retaking. How many lives have you ruined by making people put their dreams on hold for 3 years so they can join you and the rest of the elitist prestige whores on this site? I'm here for the regional law student that doesn't need a "prestigious" degree.

There are plenty of people who drop out of college and move to Hollywood to "pursue their dreams" of being movie stars. Every now and then, it works. Once upon a time, Brad Pitt was just another struggling, unemployed wannabe actor. For the vast majority, though, it doesn't work out and they end up waiting tables. No one is disputing that even from the shittiest school, a few people will be successful. What's your point?

As far as the idea that sometimes retaking doesn't yield much better results, true. If your score is too low to make law school a worthwhile investment and retaking after serious study doesn't yield a substantial boost, then maybe the universe is telling you that law school is a bad idea. As I told the OP, if a 151 is honestly and truly the most he/she is capable of, then they shouldn't go to law school. Where does this idea come from that everyone has some innate right to be a lawyer?

Finally, how many lives have we ruined by telling people to retake? None, because there's a minimal downside to retaking. It's almost impossible to "ruin your life" that way. At most, you lose a year, which is nothing in the grand scheme of things. Meanwhile, the downside of overpaying for a questionable law school is potentially huge and actually can ruin your life.

[Nucky]

I have to decide by Monday where to go
Suffolk 60% scholarship
Touro 50% scholarship

They end up total cost about the same.
GPA: 3.7 LSAT 151 (that was best I could do...not for me to retake)

Main concentration: Public Interest and Immigration / Sex Trafficking

My current Pro and Cons are:
Pro:
Touro: Class size = big fish small pond. People are so welcoming and have non-profits and agencies located inside law school. LIRR to NYC
Suffolk: Already in the city, variety of clinical, pro bono opportunities directly in my concentration

Con:
Touro: More remote suburban area, less recognition as law school since its so new
Suffolk: Double class size, more competitive to stand out

Please let me know what your thoughts are. Greatly appreciate it!

Have you spoken to any alumni from each school or attorneys that practice in your desired market? It sounds like Touro is the right call here as their employment score on LST is higher than Suffolk and the employment isn't too bad compared to other schools in the Northeast. I wouldn't dive too deep into the TLS "retake" theory. If you are comfortable with your situation, that's all that matters but I think you should definitely reach out to a few attorneys in your desired market to get some advice. You also shouldn't bank on transferring because you're being graded on a curve so the odds are stacked against you to crack to 20% but Touro is the right call here

Young Marino, you're possibly the worst poster on TLS. How many lives must you ruin before you're satisfied? Just because you're intent on not retaking and attending a TTTT doesn't mean you should encourage others to make an equally bone-headed decision.

There are plenty of attorneys who have graduated with six figure debts and end up doing well. I know a few of them myself. I just don't think "retaking" is as great as a strategy as you guys say when it's been shown that in most cases, people who retake increase their score by 2-3 points on average. You can't possibly tell me 2-3 points more is worth sitting out yet another year. In some circumstances it may mean increased scholly $$$ but most of the time, students are stuck in the situation they were in prior to retaking. How many lives have you ruined by making people put their dreams on hold for 3 years so they can join you and the rest of the elitist prestige whores on this site? I'm here for the regional law student that doesn't need a "prestigious" degree.

He is already a point above Touro's LSAT 75th. 2-3 additional points, combined with his GPA, would probably net him a full scholarship. You don't take out six figures of debt for 50% chance at becoming ANY kind of lawyer. Even if he does succeed in beating out half of his classmates for a job, he is going to be doing shitlaw and will be crippled by that debt for decades, if not the rest of his life.

Also, since OP is now a part of TLS, he will have access to plenty of resources and support. He should be able to increase his score by more than the average taker would.

If you're too lazy and/or stupid to retake given your bad options, that's fine. But don't come here and try to justify someone else making such a terrible, terrible, TERRIBLE choice.

We aren't elitist prestige whores. We're common sense and data-backed reality whores.

[timbs4339]

When that 2-3 points can get you a scholarship award larger than the starting salary for grads at that school (those who get jobs), plus whatever you make working (let's say 30K), it absolutely makes sense to retake. If 5-7 points can get you into a whole different class of school, with different post-grad employment options entirely, winning the lottery would probably be the only better thing to happen that year from a financial perspective.

Be honest, people don't want to retake not because they've studiously surveyed alumni from that school but because of the social stigma of telling their friends, relatives, or prospective dating pool they are working a dead-end job for a year and living at home. Law school solves that immediate problem. It's a stupid mentality, but then again so is loaning 22 year olds 250K to go to Touro.

[MistakenGenius]

Post removed.

[HRomanus]

There are plenty of attorneys who have graduated with six figure debts and end up doing well. I know a few of them myself. I just don't think "retaking" is as great as a strategy as you guys say when it's been shown that in most cases, people who retake increase their score by 2-3 points on average. You can't possibly tell me 2-3 points more is worth sitting out yet another year. In some circumstances it may mean increased scholly $$$ but most of the time, students are stuck in the situation they were in prior to retaking. How many lives have you ruined by making people put their dreams on hold for 3 years so they can join you and the rest of the elitist prestige whores on this site? I'm here for the regional law student that doesn't need a "prestigious" degree.

I am a heavy proponent of advising an OP on the best options of the ones he or she posts. A small minority of OPs here actually take the retake advice (I will be one of them this fall). That being said - in no situation should a student go to law school with a 151. Both the employment statistics and COA from any school that would accept that are mortal threats to your future. Law school is nothing more than an investment, and if the ROI is bad you simply don't make the investment.

Where did you get the 3 year number from? If a 151 is the highest OP can get after three takes he should not retake and should never go to law school.

Yes, you're right: someone's life can be ruined by retaking. If he is murdered in his year off.

[BigZuck]

There are plenty of attorneys who have graduated with six figure debts and end up doing well. I know a few of them myself. I just don't think "retaking" is as great as a strategy as you guys say when it's been shown that in most cases, people who retake increase their score by 2-3 points on average. You can't possibly tell me 2-3 points more is worth sitting out yet another year. In some circumstances it may mean increased scholly $$$ but most of the time, students are stuck in the situation they were in prior to retaking. How many lives have you ruined by making people put their dreams on hold for 3 years so they can join you and the rest of the elitist prestige whores on this site? I'm here for the regional law student that doesn't need a "prestigious" degree.

I am a heavy proponent of advising an OP on the best options of the ones he or she posts. A small minority of OPs here actually take the retake advice (I will be one of them this fall). That being said - in no situation should a student go to law school with a 151. Both the employment statistics and COA from any school that would accept that are mortal threats to your future. Law school is nothing more than an investment, and if the ROI is bad you simply don't make the investment.

Where did you get the 3 year number from? If a 151 is the highest OP can get after three takes he should not retake and should never go to law school.

Yes, you're right: someone's life can be ruined by retaking. If he is murdered in his year off.

Small minority? Maybe the type of person who will argue with randos on the Internet for pages and pages isn't very inclined to retake. But I think you're discounting the legions of lurkers out there. Lurking is basically what got me to retake. There's no way to prove it but I suspect far more people are successfully swayed by the retake advice you see on this site than you think.

Eta: I also know or know of literally no person whose life wasn't actually improved by retaking, let alone someone whose life was made worse.

Dan gonna Dan I guess

[Marshmallow]

There are plenty of attorneys who have graduated with six figure debts and end up doing well. I know a few of them myself. I just don't think "retaking" is as great as a strategy as you guys say when it's been shown that in most cases, people who retake increase their score by 2-3 points on average. You can't possibly tell me 2-3 points more is worth sitting out yet another year. In some circumstances it may mean increased scholly $$$ but most of the time, students are stuck in the situation they were in prior to retaking. How many lives have you ruined by making people put their dreams on hold for 3 years so they can join you and the rest of the elitist prestige whores on this site? I'm here for the regional law student that doesn't need a "prestigious" degree.

I am a heavy proponent of advising an OP on the best options of the ones he or she posts. A small minority of OPs here actually take the retake advice (I will be one of them this fall). That being said - in no situation should a student go to law school with a 151. Both the employment statistics and COA from any school that would accept that are mortal threats to your future. Law school is nothing more than an investment, and if the ROI is bad you simply don't make the investment.

Where did you get the 3 year number from? If a 151 is the highest OP can get after three takes he should not retake and should never go to law school.

Yes, you're right: someone's life can be ruined by retaking. If he is murdered in his year off.

Small minority? Maybe the type of person who will argue with randos on the Internet for pages and pages isn't very inclined to retake. But I think you're discounting the legions of lurkers out there. Lurking is basically what got me to retake. There's no way to prove it but I suspect far more people are successfully swayed by the retake advice you see on this site than you think.

Eta: I also know or know of literally no person whose life wasn't actually improved by retaking, let alone someone whose life was made worse.

Dan gonna Dan I guess

+1

I lurked, decided to retake, and went from 165 to 170.

[Young Marino]

Well, someone has to give these prospective regional law students some insight when retaking isn't an option. I call you prestige whores out and you respond by dedicating an entire page to bash me? That's cool I can live with that but not everyone needs that TLS "prestige" and you all should know that. OP is in a much better position than a lot of current law students I know and shouldn't have to deal with "retake, retake, retake" when he or she is asking about the comparison between two schools. You guys are ridiculous.

[bjsesq]

Well, someone has to give these prospective regional law students some insight when retaking isn't an option. I call you prestige whores out and you respond by dedicating an entire page to bash me? That's cool I can live with that but not everyone needs that TLS "prestige" and you all should know that. OP is in a much better position than a lot of current law students I know and shouldn't have to deal with "retake, retake, retake" when he or she is asking about the comparison between two schools. You guys are ridiculous.

You addressed none of the posts substantively. Not fucking one. You are a goddamn retard.

[InTheHouse]

Well, someone has to give these prospective regional law students some insight when retaking isn't an option. I call you prestige whores out and you respond by dedicating an entire page to bash me? That's cool I can live with that but not everyone needs that TLS "prestige" and you all should know that. OP is in a much better position than a lot of current law students I know and shouldn't have to deal with "retake, retake, retake" when he or she is asking about the comparison between two schools. You guys are ridiculous.

An expert of the NYC and Boston markets are we?

[TheSpanishMain]

Well, someone has to give these prospective regional law students some insight when retaking isn't an option. I call you prestige whores out and you respond by dedicating an entire page to bash me? That's cool I can live with that but not everyone needs that TLS "prestige" and you all should know that. OP is in a much better position than a lot of current law students I know and shouldn't have to deal with "retake, retake, retake" when he or she is asking about the comparison between two schools. You guys are ridiculous.

Retaking is virtually never not an option and "don't go to law school" is always an option. You're being dense and I'm embarrassed on your behalf. Your "call everyone a prestige whore" tactic when you get called out on your idiocy is pretty worthy, too.

[HRomanus]

Well, someone has to give these prospective regional law students some insight when retaking isn't an option. I call you prestige whores out and you respond by dedicating an entire page to bash me? That's cool I can live with that but not everyone needs that TLS "prestige" and you all should know that. OP is in a much better position than a lot of current law students I know and shouldn't have to deal with "retake, retake, retake" when he or she is asking about the comparison between two schools. You guys are ridiculous.

I live in a state where going to the TTT state flagship is an arguably rational thing. I understand the perspective of regional law versus "T14 or bust." But seriously - a 151 is not getting you into a law school with decent regional or state job placement.

[Nucky]

Well, someone has to give these prospective regional law students some insight when retaking isn't an option. I call you prestige whores out and you respond by dedicating an entire page to bash me? That's cool I can live with that but not everyone needs that TLS "prestige" and you all should know that. OP is in a much better position than a lot of current law students I know and shouldn't have to deal with "retake, retake, retake" when he or she is asking about the comparison between two schools. You guys are ridiculous.

Retaking is virtually never not an option and "don't go to law school" is always an option. You're being dense and I'm embarrassed on your behalf. Your "call everyone a prestige whore" tactic when you get called out on your idiocy is pretty worthy, too.

I feel like TheSpanishMain's avatar is directed toward Young Marino.

[timbs4339]

Ah yes, it falls to a 0L with "regional insight" the authority to give other 0L's life changing career advice instead of practicing lawyers who actually practice in that market. Please, tell someone like worldtraveler about international law opportunities from Nova or reasonable_man about job prospects from an NYC area TTT.

With that kind of reasoning, don't even bother retaking. You'll be top 5% wherever you go no problemo.

[CiaoTat]

Be honest, people don't want to retake not because they've studiously surveyed alumni from that school but because of the social stigma of telling their friends, relatives, or prospective dating pool they are working a dead-end job for a year and living at home. Law school solves that immediate problem. It's a stupid mentality, but then again so is loaning 22 year olds 250K to go to Touro.

First of all, I have to clarify there is NO SIX FIGURE debt! Only 45K in total to go to Touro (15K / YR to pay) because of the scholarship offer. Yes, that is still a good amount of money to take out, but nothing to go to the extent of stupid mentaility over six figure in debt.
For those who have sincerely given me their feedback and not just nonsense argument I really do appreciate it. I do agree that retake is important--but I do not agree that the person who scores higher on the LSAT will be the better lawyer. I know of so many students that were lazy in college, decided randomly to take LSAT and managed to get a great score! However, how will they succeed? I have networked a lot, have great interpersonal skills, professional experience and have performed better than my peers based on hardwork. Sometimes those who think to have it all forget to still try. I believe in my capabilities and know I will be a great lawyer. You need to be well driven, and well rounded for law school. I must agree that if I retake a higher LSAT score would be stupendous!
On another note, I am aware that I asked feedback for a lower tier school on TLS Forum. Sorry if only Tier 1 schools are the topic here, I really was looking for sincere helpful tips and for those who gave them (whether contradictory) I am still grateful.
I have spoken with several well known Judges and attorneys in NYC from internship and volunteer work (no financial connection from them to be bias with law schools) and they do not share that going to a lower tier law school is suicide. You have to take into account to not go in debt, network, and know your capabilities can help you rank in school at the top. Is it more difficult than how we saw college? certainly!!! Impossible? no!

[papercut]

Be honest, people don't want to retake not because they've studiously surveyed alumni from that school but because of the social stigma of telling their friends, relatives, or prospective dating pool they are working a dead-end job for a year and living at home. Law school solves that immediate problem. It's a stupid mentality, but then again so is loaning 22 year olds 250K to go to Touro.

First of all, I have to clarify there is NO SIX FIGURE debt! Only 45K in total to go to Touro (15K / YR to pay) because of the scholarship offer. Yes, that is still a good amount of money to take out, but nothing to go to the extent of stupid mentaility over six figure in debt.
For those who have sincerely given me their feedback and not just nonsense argument I really do appreciate it. I do agree that retake is important--but I do not agree that the person who scores higher on the LSAT will be the better lawyer. I know of so many students that were lazy in college, decided randomly to take LSAT and managed to get a great score! However, how will they succeed? I have networked a lot, have great interpersonal skills, professional experience and have performed better than my peers based on hardwork. Sometimes those who think to have it all forget to still try. I believe in my capabilities and know I will be a great lawyer. You need to be well driven, and well rounded for law school. I must agree that if I retake a higher LSAT score would be stupendous!
On another note, I am aware that I asked feedback for a lower tier school on TLS Forum. Sorry if only Tier 1 schools are the topic here, I really was looking for sincere helpful tips and for those who gave them (whether contradictory) I am still grateful.
I have spoken with several well known Judges and attorneys in NYC from internship and volunteer work (no financial connection from them to be bias with law schools) and they do not share that going to a lower tier law school is suicide. You have to take into account to not go in debt, network, and know your capabilities can help you rank in school at the top. Is it more difficult than how we saw college? certainly!!! Impossible? no!

What's a great score in your mind?

[timbs4339]

Be honest, people don't want to retake not because they've studiously surveyed alumni from that school but because of the social stigma of telling their friends, relatives, or prospective dating pool they are working a dead-end job for a year and living at home. Law school solves that immediate problem. It's a stupid mentality, but then again so is loaning 22 year olds 250K to go to Touro.

First of all, I have to clarify there is NO SIX FIGURE debt! Only 45K in total to go to Touro (15K / YR to pay) because of the scholarship offer. Yes, that is still a good amount of money to take out, but nothing to go to the extent of stupid mentaility over six figure in debt.
For those who have sincerely given me their feedback and not just nonsense argument I really do appreciate it. I do agree that retake is important--but I do not agree that the person who scores higher on the LSAT will be the better lawyer. I know of so many students that were lazy in college, decided randomly to take LSAT and managed to get a great score! However, how will they succeed? I have networked a lot, have great interpersonal skills, professional experience and have performed better than my peers based on hardwork. Sometimes those who think to have it all forget to still try. I believe in my capabilities and know I will be a great lawyer. You need to be well driven, and well rounded for law school. I must agree that if I retake a higher LSAT score would be stupendous!
On another note, I am aware that I asked feedback for a lower tier school on TLS Forum. Sorry if only Tier 1 schools are the topic here, I really was looking for sincere helpful tips and for those who gave them (whether contradictory) I am still grateful.
I have spoken with several well known Judges and attorneys in NYC from internship and volunteer work (no financial connection from them to be bias with law schools) and they do not share that going to a lower tier law school is suicide. You have to take into account to not go in debt, network, and know your capabilities can help you rank in school at the top. Is it more difficult than how we saw college? certainly!!! Impossible? no!

We're kind of talking past you right now and arguing with YM.

Let me clue you in, as someone who practices in the NYC region- experienced lawyers from the area don't know jack about the job market or about student debt, and they are not going to give you blunt advice because (a) it's considered rude and (b) they have to be in court the next day and have a million things on their mind and don't really give a shit about you anyway.

You also have absolutely no idea about your peers and their "hardwork." For some reason you're assuming that you have a better work ethic than a bunch of other people who, on paper, are very similar to you in academic profile. Not everyone wears effort on their sleeve. Some of the hardest working and successful law students I knew gave the outward appearance of being complete slackers.