My T14 class of 2020's unemployment rate is 5x higher than it was for the class of 2019 Forum

[Anonymous User]

There was 3 unemployed and looking people for the class of 2019. The class of 2020 has 15 unemployed and looking as well as 6 people with law school funded jobs. I am one of those 15 people.

It is like the class of 2020 is the forgotten class, nobody is making a big deal out of how our careers are being ruined like they did over the classes graduating during the great recession.

[uncle_rico]

this is pretty weak bait...

[Anonymous User]

No, your class year absolutely was not the most affected by this. Your class year came into OCI with some of the best hiring prospects in over a decade, experienced networking in person, and had less than half a semester of Zoom law.

I understand the bar/onboarding must have been pretty shit for 2020, but this specific complaint of job prospects does *not* go to the class of 2020 (or 2021 b/c their OCI ended well before the pandemic).

I *highly* doubt you'd have performed better doing online OCI after a full year of Zoom law, and no opportunities to network IRL.

Signed,
Class of 2022/2023.

[2013]

I think most schools performed around the same from 2019 to 2020. I also think 2019 was historically good for some schools, so they slipped back to 2018 numbers in 2020.

Edit: don’t blame your failure to find a job on the economy.

[Anonymous User]

Law school funded jobs aren't even a ding. If you're talking about Northwestern, the school grants 5-10 PI fellowships a year. At least in my year, they all want to people who obviously wanted PI and were not for folks who just missed the employment boat. As for 15, it's not ideal, but it's like 5% of the class, which isn't really bad at all.

[Xfer45]

There was 3 unemployed and looking people for the class of 2019. The class of 2020 has 15 unemployed and looking as well as 6 people with law school funded jobs. I am one of those 15 people.

OP - did you have an offer that was later rescinded due to the pandemic? Did you strike out at OCI?

[Gus Fring]

I think most schools performed around the same from 2019 to 2020. I also think 2019 was historically good for some schools, so they slipped back to 2018 numbers in 2020.

Edit: don’t blame your failure to find a job on the economy.

what a prick you are.

[Sackboy]

I think most schools performed around the same from 2019 to 2020. I also think 2019 was historically good for some schools, so they slipped back to 2018 numbers in 2020.

Edit: don’t blame your failure to find a job on the economy.

what a prick you are.

Yeah, blaming your failure finding a job on the economy is definitely a very legitimate excuse for 2020 grads. Sure, they know if they were getting biglaw or not in 2018/2019, but there were a lot of non-biglaw opportunities OCI strikeouts normally land at that were culled in 2020 due to the economy. I do think it is a bit silly, though, that OP is complaining about 15 folks being unemployed. Based on the data OP provided, the school is very clearly Northwestern. With 15 unemployed, that's a 5.8% unemployment rate. A 94.2% employment rate is pretty damn good and definitely something any professional program would put on a brochure. It's hardly a "forgotten class". "Nobody is making a big deal" out of it because it's really normal. OP isn't quite lying with statistics but is definitely using the 5x stat, which sounds horrendous but in reality still reflects a great employment number, to fan the flames of their unemployment outcome story.

[uncle_rico]

You're getting worked up over a post that was probably one of the most obvious instances of bait to rile people up. No one in their right mind would ever call 15 people without jobs the "forgotten class" other than a troll.

[Sackboy]

You're getting worked up over a post that was probably one of the most obvious instances of bait to rile people up. No one in their right mind would ever call 15 people without jobs the "forgotten class" other than a troll.

I'm not riled up, as I don't really have a horse in this race. I just think OP is being silly and wanted to run through some numbers to verify that I wasn't crazy for thinking so. Also, I can 100% see this being legitimate, as I've heard comments like this in person...

[publius365]

You're getting worked up over a post that was probably one of the most obvious instances of bait to rile people up. No one in their right mind would ever call 15 people without jobs the "forgotten class" other than a troll.

This.

@OP gr8 b8 m8, I r8 8/8.

[Anonymous User]

No, your class year absolutely was not the most affected by this. Your class year came into OCI with some of the best hiring prospects in over a decade, experienced networking in person, and had less than half a semester of Zoom law.

I understand the bar/onboarding must have been pretty shit for 2020, but this specific complaint of job prospects does *not* go to the class of 2020 (or 2021 b/c their OCI ended well before the pandemic).

I *highly* doubt you'd have performed better doing online OCI after a full year of Zoom law, and no opportunities to network IRL.

Signed,
Class of 2022/2023.

I feel for your classes; I cannot imagine having to either derail the dream because of the market and the like 700 black swan events in the last 16 months alone. I think our class has a unique perspective that makes us natural allies. We all received and are set to receive awful treatment from the legal profession for a few years and every class that graduates in what might seem like a saturated high end legal market will be progressively more harmed by this disaster and the increasing price of tuition. FWIW I paid 35K for zoom lectures my second-semester third year. I can sympathize with your plight and feel outraged that they are still charging you these prices! It all feels like the biggest scam. Every stupid and unexpected hidden fee to be registered for the bar and admitted in my state has been another slap in the face. I am disgusted with you.

Our classes 2020 onwards have to stick together if we stand a shot of changing the way the legal profession treats its incoming classes, how financially predatory the whole scam is, and how poorly new lawyers are treated all around. The profession is changing after the pandemic, I can feel it at work with my colleagues, but it seems not fast enough to catch up with the reality that people are demanding quality of life as well as work. The high salaries are not a "gift" to us that partners pay us out of the goodness of their profits and hearts. They are commensurate with the level of risk and financing we take on to be fit for those jobs and clearly the risk profile is beginning to cut against young lawyers--especially with bar admissions processes that are run by utter buffoons and hold capitve paying students in their clutches.

Don't hate us for having an easier time than you did; we have all been challenged in different ways and some are otherwise invisible to the outside world. Let's stick together because that's the only way we all survive.

[cavalier1138]

Let's stick together because that's the only way we all survive.

Talk like that will get the bosses to call in some Pinkerton men...

[2013]

I think most schools performed around the same from 2019 to 2020. I also think 2019 was historically good for some schools, so they slipped back to 2018 numbers in 2020.

Edit: don’t blame your failure to find a job on the economy.

what a prick you are.

Yeah, blaming your failure finding a job on the economy is definitely a very legitimate excuse for 2020 grads. Sure, they know if they were getting biglaw or not in 2018/2019, but there were a lot of non-biglaw opportunities OCI strikeouts normally land at that were culled in 2020 due to the economy. I do think it is a bit silly, though, that OP is complaining about 15 folks being unemployed. Based on the data OP provided, the school is very clearly Northwestern. With 15 unemployed, that's a 5.8% unemployment rate. A 94.2% employment rate is pretty damn good and definitely something any professional program would put on a brochure. It's hardly a "forgotten class". "Nobody is making a big deal" out of it because it's really normal. OP isn't quite lying with statistics but is definitely using the 5x stat, which sounds horrendous but in reality still reflects a great employment number, to fan the flames of their unemployment outcome story.

Class of 2020 had OCI in 2019. That was a hot market. If OP had an offer rescinded because of covid, that sucks and then yes, it’s clearly because of the covid economy. But if OP struck out at OCI at a T13, the economy isn’t the (only) reason why they didn’t get a job. I stand by what I said.

I think people forget that class of 2020 generally had great prospects that were mostly unaffected by covid. Class of 2021 I feel for.

[Anonymous User]

I think most schools performed around the same from 2019 to 2020. I also think 2019 was historically good for some schools, so they slipped back to 2018 numbers in 2020.

Edit: don’t blame your failure to find a job on the economy.

what a prick you are.

Yeah, blaming your failure finding a job on the economy is definitely a very legitimate excuse for 2020 grads. Sure, they know if they were getting biglaw or not in 2018/2019, but there were a lot of non-biglaw opportunities OCI strikeouts normally land at that were culled in 2020 due to the economy. I do think it is a bit silly, though, that OP is complaining about 15 folks being unemployed. Based on the data OP provided, the school is very clearly Northwestern. With 15 unemployed, that's a 5.8% unemployment rate. A 94.2% employment rate is pretty damn good and definitely something any professional program would put on a brochure. It's hardly a "forgotten class". "Nobody is making a big deal" out of it because it's really normal. OP isn't quite lying with statistics but is definitely using the 5x stat, which sounds horrendous but in reality still reflects a great employment number, to fan the flames of their unemployment outcome story.

Class of 2020 had OCI in 2019. That was a hot market. If OP had an offer rescinded because of covid, that sucks and then yes, it’s clearly because of the covid economy. But if OP struck out at OCI at a T13, the economy isn’t the (only) reason why they didn’t get a job. I stand by what I said.

I think people forget that class of 2020 generally had great prospects that were mostly unaffected by covid. Class of 2021 I feel for.

Genuine question, not trying to fight anyone. Wasn't 2L OCI for the Class of 2021 also largely unaffected by covid, except for those whose offers were rescinded? Were there actually a lot of rescinded offers/canceled programs with no guarantees?

I would say that the Class of 2022 was the most heavily affected by covid, but apparently a lot of biglaw firms actually increased their class size for their 2L summers for Class of 2022 so I don't even know anymore.

[jotarokujo]

Class of 2020 had OCI in 2019. That was a hot market. If OP had an offer rescinded because of covid, that sucks and then yes, it’s clearly because of the covid economy. But if OP struck out at OCI at a T13, the economy isn’t the (only) reason why they didn’t get a job. I stand by what I said.

I think people forget that class of 2020 generally had great prospects that were mostly unaffected by covid. Class of 2021 I feel for.

wait why feel for class of 2021? they are in the same situation as 2020. they had normal OCI in 2019, and maybe a small number of folks got offers rescinded because of COVID.

class of 2020 had oci in 2018

[2013]

Class of 2020 had OCI in 2019. That was a hot market. If OP had an offer rescinded because of covid, that sucks and then yes, it’s clearly because of the covid economy. But if OP struck out at OCI at a T13, the economy isn’t the (only) reason why they didn’t get a job. I stand by what I said.

I think people forget that class of 2020 generally had great prospects that were mostly unaffected by covid. Class of 2021 I feel for.

wait why feel for class of 2021? they are in the same situation as 2020. they had normal OCI in 2019, and maybe a small number of folks got offers rescinded because of COVID.

class of 2020 had oci in 2018

My bad. I confused the dates. But yes, 2022 got screwed. 2020 and 2021 were not.

[Anonymous User]

Genuine question, not trying to fight anyone. Wasn't 2L OCI for the Class of 2021 also largely unaffected by covid, except for those whose offers were rescinded? Were there actually a lot of rescinded offers/canceled programs with no guarantees?

I would say that the Class of 2022 was the most heavily affected by covid, but apparently a lot of biglaw firms actually increased their class size for their 2L summers for Class of 2022 so I don't even know anymore.

Class of 2021's OCI itself was completely unaffected.
The summer program was a mixed bag, ranging from Nixon Peabody cancelling the program with only a $5k stipend and no guaranteed offers to K&E giving full (10-week) pay for 2 weeks of listening to presentations about why they're awesome. Most were somewhere in between. I don't think there were many, if any, rescinded offers, and only a handful of cancelled programs, at least for market-paying firms (obligatory shame on S&C). But the pro-rated pays SUCKED, as well as the uncertainty/lack of communication.

Class of 2022's OCI got pushed back to January 2021 instead of August 2020. The number of hires may or may not changed for the worse; my sense is that firms hired more for corporate and less for litigation. Some firms hired aggressively pre-OCI, though, which reduced the actual number of open spots during OCI for those firms. I think the bigger differences affecting OCI were less tangible, though. For instance, school was still online, but 2L fall grades now counted. And we all know that 2L fall can be incredibly busy even without networking.
I think the summer program will be better than it was for last year, since there won't be any cancelled programs and firms had more time to prepare (vs. having to re-plan the entire summer program in 2-3 months). And I highly doubt there will be prorated pay.

tl;dr Class of 2021 probably had better OCI experience, Class of 2022 will probably have better summer experience.

[jotarokujo]

Genuine question, not trying to fight anyone. Wasn't 2L OCI for the Class of 2021 also largely unaffected by covid, except for those whose offers were rescinded? Were there actually a lot of rescinded offers/canceled programs with no guarantees?

I would say that the Class of 2022 was the most heavily affected by covid, but apparently a lot of biglaw firms actually increased their class size for their 2L summers for Class of 2022 so I don't even know anymore.

Class of 2021's OCI itself was completely unaffected.
The summer program was a mixed bag, ranging from Nixon Peabody cancelling the program with only a $5k stipend and no guaranteed offers to K&E giving full (10-week) pay for 2 weeks of listening to presentations about why they're awesome. Most were somewhere in between. I don't think there were many, if any, rescinded offers, and only a handful of cancelled programs, at least for market-paying firms (obligatory shame on S&C). But the pro-rated pays SUCKED, as well as the uncertainty/lack of communication.

Class of 2022's OCI got pushed back to January 2021 instead of August 2020. The number of hires may or may not changed for the worse; my sense is that firms hired more for corporate and less for litigation. Some firms hired aggressively pre-OCI, though, which reduced the actual number of open spots during OCI for those firms. I think the bigger differences affecting OCI were less tangible, though. For instance, school was still online, but 2L fall grades now counted. And we all know that 2L fall can be incredibly busy even without networking.
I think the summer program will be better than it was for last year, since there won't be any cancelled programs and firms had more time to prepare (vs. having to re-plan the entire summer program in 2-3 months). And I highly doubt there will be prorated pay.

tl;dr Class of 2021 probably had better OCI experience, Class of 2022 will probably have better summer experience.

class of 2021 should be able to make up for lost time when they start this fall though - seems like most firms will be at least half in person

[Anonymous User]

While 2021 had an easier OCI, it also had, by far, the most time on Zoom of any class, especially since my school (and I imagine many others) prioritized 1Ls for in-person stuff this year and many of us also essentially lost our SAs through prorated programs, poorly planned programs, etc. Our general law school experience was the one most affected by COVID and abysmal compared to 2020's.

I'll be curious to see if more people end up turning down offers, especially people who clerk and have a longer runway, because nobody really formed relationships at firms over the summer. I have nothing against my 2L firm and it treated us very well compared to many others but I also have no particular affection for it.

[Anonymous User]

No one has mentioned start dates getting pushed back for the class of '20. In terms of a financial hit that is way bigger than a pro-rated summer. Also, the nightmare bar experience. Hard to know who had it the worst. Virtual OCI when firms had already filled up half the slots sounds doesn't sound very pleasant either.

[jotarokujo]

While 2021 had an easier OCI, it also had, by far, the most time on Zoom of any class, especially since my school (and I imagine many others) prioritized 1Ls for in-person stuff this year and many of us also essentially lost our SAs through prorated programs, poorly planned programs, etc. Our general law school experience was the one most affected by COVID and abysmal compared to 2020's.

I'll be curious to see if more people end up turning down offers, especially people who clerk and have a longer runway, because nobody really formed relationships at firms over the summer. I have nothing against my 2L firm and it treated us very well compared to many others but I also have no particular affection for it.

being on zoom for class may be good or bad depending on the person, just like wfh at big firms

[Anonymous User]

While 2021 had an easier OCI, it also had, by far, the most time on Zoom of any class, especially since my school (and I imagine many others) prioritized 1Ls for in-person stuff this year and many of us also essentially lost our SAs through prorated programs, poorly planned programs, etc. Our general law school experience was the one most affected by COVID and abysmal compared to 2020's.

I'll be curious to see if more people end up turning down offers, especially people who clerk and have a longer runway, because nobody really formed relationships at firms over the summer. I have nothing against my 2L firm and it treated us very well compared to many others but I also have no particular affection for it.

being on zoom for class may be good or bad depending on the person, just like wfh at big firms

It's not just being on Zoom for class, it's not being able to use the building for anything, which means no free food or events, far fewer in-person social interactions, irregular library access, online office hours, etc. And unlike for associates, commuting is not a major issue for most law students. I don't think I know anyone who prefers it except for the small group of students who are living in another city entirely and my school's few in-person classes are heavily, heavily oversubscribed.

[mwells_56]

While 2021 had an easier OCI, it also had, by far, the most time on Zoom of any class, especially since my school (and I imagine many others) prioritized 1Ls for in-person stuff this year and many of us also essentially lost our SAs through prorated programs, poorly planned programs, etc. Our general law school experience was the one most affected by COVID and abysmal compared to 2020's.

I'll be curious to see if more people end up turning down offers, especially people who clerk and have a longer runway, because nobody really formed relationships at firms over the summer. I have nothing against my 2L firm and it treated us very well compared to many others but I also have no particular affection for it.

being on zoom for class may be good or bad depending on the person, just like wfh at big firms

It's not just being on Zoom for class, it's not being able to use the building for anything, which means no free food or events, far fewer in-person social interactions, irregular library access, online office hours, etc. And unlike for associates, commuting is not a major issue for most law students. I don't think I know anyone who prefers it except for the small group of students who are living in another city entirely and my school's few in-person classes are heavily, heavily oversubscribed.

I'll chime in as the one who has enjoyed Zoom law but admittedly I'm unusual on that front.

[Anonymous User]

While 2021 had an easier OCI, it also had, by far, the most time on Zoom of any class, especially since my school (and I imagine many others) prioritized 1Ls for in-person stuff this year and many of us also essentially lost our SAs through prorated programs, poorly planned programs, etc. Our general law school experience was the one most affected by COVID and abysmal compared to 2020's.

I'll be curious to see if more people end up turning down offers, especially people who clerk and have a longer runway, because nobody really formed relationships at firms over the summer. I have nothing against my 2L firm and it treated us very well compared to many others but I also have no particular affection for it.

This is a really weird take. C/o 2022 had just as much "Zoom time," although I'll be the first to say that I have enjoyed Zoom law thus far (no need to waste time commuting, cold calls were and are now more of a joke, I can watch recordings on my own time without having to request access, etc. etc.). The only issue might be those who don't have a quiet study set-up at home, but pro-rata pay from the previous summer definitely helps any financial issues related to the pandemic as opposed to c/o 2022 (unpaid 1L summers), even if the latter will make more in the absolute. Not to mention that a decent number of firms gave SAs full pay and guaranteed offers.