180 with a twist Forum

[n_equals_1]

The good news:

- 180 LSAT first take
- Professional athlete in an Olympic sport (legitimate shot at going to Tokyo)
- Computer Science degree from an Ivy

The bad news...
- 3.01 LGPA

I have what I'm guessing is an average GPA addendum: took medical leave as a freshman after failing all my classes due to a parent's death, but my GPA for the other 3 years wasn't exactly immaculate given that I was a 3-sport athlete and had catching up to do in terms of credit.

5 years out of undergrad. I have recent part-time graduate coursework at one of the computer science Big 4 with a 4.0, but I'm guessing this won't really move the needle.

Just how badly does the GPA torpedo my app? Is my athletic background an appreciable bonus? Any chance at H? I'm assuming YS are very out? As you might imagine there isn't a ton of relevant data on LSN for me.

[QContinuum]

The good news:

- 180 LSAT first take
- Professional athlete in an Olympic sport (legitimate shot at going to Tokyo)
- Computer Science degree from an Ivy

The bad news...
- 3.01 LGPA

I have what I'm guessing is an average GPA addendum: took medical leave as a freshman after failing all my classes due to a parent's death, but my GPA for the other 3 years wasn't exactly immaculate given that I was a 3-sport athlete and had catching up to do in terms of credit.

5 years out of undergrad. I have recent part-time graduate coursework at one of the computer science Big 4 with a 4.0, but I'm guessing this won't really move the needle.

Just how badly does the GPA torpedo my app? Is my athletic background an appreciable bonus? Any chance at H? I'm assuming YS are very out? As you might imagine there isn't a ton of relevant data on LSN for me.

Welcome to TLS! And CONGRATS on that 180 - that's a huge accomplishment.

IMO you should apply across the T13. Your softs are striking enough (assuming you aren't overstating your Olympic prospects) that you never know. Yes, most likely you'll be locked out of the T6 as well as notoriously GPA-selective Berkeley and Cornell. But, on the right day, you might actually get into Y/S on the strength of your softs. It's a slim chance, but OTOH just about no one can be assured of a Y/S admission. Shoot your shot, I say. Polish that PS and Yale 250 until they gleam, and make sure you have supportive recommenders writing your letters.

[Wubbles]

The good news:

- 180 LSAT first take
- Professional athlete in an Olympic sport (legitimate shot at going to Tokyo)
- Computer Science degree from an Ivy

The bad news...
- 3.01 LGPA

I have what I'm guessing is an average GPA addendum: took medical leave as a freshman after failing all my classes due to a parent's death, but my GPA for the other 3 years wasn't exactly immaculate given that I was a 3-sport athlete and had catching up to do in terms of credit.

5 years out of undergrad. I have recent part-time graduate coursework at one of the computer science Big 4 with a 4.0, but I'm guessing this won't really move the needle.

Just how badly does the GPA torpedo my app? Is my athletic background an appreciable bonus? Any chance at H? I'm assuming YS are very out? As you might imagine there isn't a ton of relevant data on LSN for me.

Welcome to TLS! And CONGRATS on that 180 - that's a huge accomplishment.

IMO you should apply across the T13. Your softs are striking enough (assuming you aren't overstating your Olympic prospects) that you never know. Yes, most likely you'll be locked out of the T6 as well as notoriously GPA-selective Berkeley and Cornell. But, on the right day, you might actually get into Y/S on the strength of your softs. It's a slim chance, but OTOH just about no one can be assured of a Y/S admission. Shoot your shot, I say. Polish that PS and Yale 250 until they gleam, and make sure you have supportive recommenders writing your letters.

Just chiming in to say Berkeley has accepted 2 people I know with sub 3.2 GPAs and 178+ LSAT scores, so they are definitely worth the app.

[dyemond]

assuming this post isn't flame - apply everywhere from Y through T30, ask for waivers everywhere you can. Olympic athlete is actually a real soft; normally i'm not a big fan of GPA addendums but a parent's death and managing elite-level athletics with a real degree (ie not rocks for jocks) plus the 180 should actually move the needle here.

i was also a splitter (178/3.35) and ended up at CLS after blanketing the t14 thru t30 (this was a few years ago but still), and my softs weren't anything special. you're likely to be put on a fair number of waitlists, so be prepared for that.

[CardozoLaw09]

Yeah, this is a no-brainer - blanket the T14 and you may be pleasantly surprised with the results. Good luck and congrats on the 180 - huge, huge accomplishment.

[n_equals_1]

Welcome to TLS! And CONGRATS on that 180 - that's a huge accomplishment.

IMO you should apply across the T13. Your softs are striking enough (assuming you aren't overstating your Olympic prospects) that you never know. Yes, most likely you'll be locked out of the T6 as well as notoriously GPA-selective Berkeley and Cornell. But, on the right day, you might actually get into Y/S on the strength of your softs. It's a slim chance, but OTOH just about no one can be assured of a Y/S admission. Shoot your shot, I say. Polish that PS and Yale 250 until they gleam, and make sure you have supportive recommenders writing your letters.

Thank you! I had figured Y/S were a hard 0% but was more optimistic about the rest of the T6. Good to know the likelihood curve might be more flat.

assuming this post isn't flame - apply everywhere from Y through T30, ask for waivers everywhere you can. Olympic athlete is actually a real soft; normally i'm not a big fan of GPA addendums but a parent's death and managing elite-level athletics with a real degree (ie not rocks for jocks) plus the 180 should actually move the needle here.

i was also a splitter (178/3.35) and ended up at CLS after blanketing the t14 thru t30 (this was a few years ago but still), and my softs weren't anything special. you're likely to be put on a fair number of waitlists, so be prepared for that.

Good to know. Do you mean literally every school in the T30? Based on the feedback here, I was thinking something like this:
- T14 minus Cornell
- UCLA/USC, Vanderbilt, WUSTL, BU/BC (New England roots), ASU (free app + sent me a CAS waiver)

Yeah, this is a no-brainer - blanket the T14 and you may be pleasantly surprised with the results. Good luck and congrats on the 180 - huge, huge accomplishment.

Thank you!

[QContinuum]

Thank you! I had figured Y/S were a hard 0% but was more optimistic about the rest of the T6. Good to know the likelihood curve might be more flat.

Yale and Stanford are the two law schools that actually place significant value on "softs" (personal statement, past accomplishments, and, in Yale's case, the Yale 250). They will, albeit extremely rarely, dip below (sometimes significantly below) their typical uGPA/LSAT ranges to accept truly extraordinary applicants. The chance of Y/S accepting an extraordinary candidate with weaker numbers is, IMO, actually somewhat higher than the chances of the rest of the T6 doing the same. I personally know a few folks with extraordinary softs who were accepted by Yale but rejected by Harvard and CCN.

Law school admissions is almost exclusively a numbers game at any law school except Y/S. That said, in your case you have that shiny 180, and your GPA, while low for the T13, is still above a 3.0, so even leaving softs off the table, you're a solid candidate to get in somewhere in the T13. Your cycle will be much more unpredictable than a "non-splitter" (someone whose LSAT and GPA are about equally strong/weak), but that's all the more reason to apply to as many schools as possible.

Good to know. Do you mean literally every school in the T30? Based on the feedback here, I was thinking something like this:
- T14 minus Cornell
- UCLA/USC, Vanderbilt, WUSTL, BU/BC (New England roots), ASU (free app + sent me a CAS waiver)

No, I'd recommend applying to the T14 minus Cornell, plus the strong T20s: UCLA/USC, UT, Vandy, and WUSTL. Outcomes out of schools beyond the T20 are very different. This is no slight against ASU, BU or BC, but you should not consider attending any of those schools if your goals require attending a T13/T20. Don't underestimate the degree to which attending a school outside the T20 will limit your options.

[notinbiglaw]

Your softs are absolutely striking and will make you competitive no matter where in the T20 you end up when it comes to job search.

Those are softs that will get you interviews anywhere as long as you don’t end up near bottom of the class.

Blanket T14 and really just make your decision based on where you want to go/work unless it’s T6.

You just won’t have trouble scoring interviews and finding employment during the school year no matter where you go (except maybe Cornell due to geography)

[content-creator]

The good news:

Just how badly does the GPA torpedo my app?

To paraphrase what someone told me when I asked the same question--you will probably need to be open to options, but the good news is you will have options. Again, if your application is clean and you interview well, you WILL have great options, but no one here can predict what they will be. If you apply to everywhere in the T13 now (ASAP) you're in good shape.

Don't listen to anyone who tells you that any school is not worth an application.

PM me if you need more specific advice / insight.

[LSATWiz.com]

What would you do if you actually make the Olympics? Surely, training could impact your 1L studying, and you'd be crazy to not give your all to winning a medal (you'd also be doing out country disservice).

If I was in your position, I'd first see if I qualify for the Olympics. If you do, that's an incredibly valuable soft that could get you into every school given your LSAT. Nobody is going to care nearly as much that you're actually good enough to make the Olympics so you are limiting the quality of that soft applying now. In addition, making the Olympics would be something that employers like because it's cool and there's not much to distinguish students.

Law school doesn't really go on a set time frame. You only have so many chances at the Olympics. Also, the Olympics are much cooler.

[tinman]

When will you know if you make the olympics? I’m actually a huge fan of multiple bites at the apple. I say apply now, and see what you get, from law schools and olympics. If you get into Harvard and Stanford this round, which is a real possibility, then great. Go. If you fail to make the olympics, still go to the best T-whatever you get into this round. If you do make the olympics, and assuming Y&S reject you, apply again next fall on the heels of your olympic odyssey. Will make for a hell of a Yale 250 or personal statement.