Bio grad splitter applying to law school in 2019, need advice. 178 LSAT, 3.51 GPA Forum

[Shadow9314]

Hey everyone,

I graduated in 2016 with a degree in biochemistry from Temple U in Philadelphia. I was originally planning to go into the healthcare but changed my mind last year and decided to take the LSAT. I got a 178 on the Nov LSAT (1st try)which was awesome but I’m concerned about my low gpa (3.51 on LSDAS). I don’t really have anything to write a gpa addendum on. I was taking high level bio and chem classes which definitely stopped me from getting a 3.8+. I do have a somewhat positive trend yearly (freshman year was a 3.2x, senior was around a 3.8 with higher level classes). I want to do biglaw and hopefully stay in the philly area.

What do you guys think of my chances at the T-14? Specifically Penn, NYU, Cornell and Columbia (they’re the closest to PA). Also chances at Temple and Villanova since they also feed relatively well into the PA area. Penn is my top choice and I would be comfortable applying early decision there. Thanks guys!

[cavalier1138]

You're a strong applicant across the T13, with the exception of Yale and Stanford. Harvard is iffy, and Berkeley may not happen (for some reason they strongly favor GPA over LSAT).

As for your school list: what kind of work do you want to do in PA? You absolutely shouldn't be applying anywhere ED, but the job opportunities available from Temple/Villanova are radically different from the job opportunities out of any T13.

[QContinuum]

You're a strong applicant across the T13, with the exception of Yale and Stanford. Harvard is iffy, and Berkeley may not happen (for some reason they strongly favor GPA over LSAT).

As for your school list: what kind of work do you want to do in PA? You absolutely shouldn't be applying anywhere ED, but the job opportunities available from Temple/Villanova are radically different from the job opportunities out of any T13.

Echoing the above, with the addition that IIRC Cornell also favors GPA over LSAT. I don't think Cornell is particularly splitter-friendly.

The T13 place nationally, and so OP - especially as a splitter - should apply across the T13, regardless of each school's geographic proximity to the Northeast. OP would be able to get PA BigLaw just as well from Duke or UVA as from Penn.

[Shadow9314]

Thanks for your insight guys!

In terms of work in PA, I want to work BigLaw so in the northeast the firms I'd mostly be interested in are Morgan, Lewis and Dechert. Of course I'm not going to go into law school with the intention of only working in these firms, but that's where my interest lies. In terms of which particular facets of law, I'm not comfortable choosing one yet. I wouldn't mind working in NY or anywhere else in the northeast, I just prefer the Philly area.

Temple and Nova are really just my safety schools. I chose them based on the number of students they send to philly BigLaw places like Dechert, Reed and Morgan. I have a few friends who graduated from Temple law the past few years who have gotten jobs there. Obviously, I understand that I would need to end up probably in the top 10% or higher in my class at Temple or Nova for those jobs compared to some more laxity at a T13 school.

If I were to expand my list, also taking into account what you guys said about Yale (wasn't gonna apply anyway), Stanford (same), Cornell, Harvard, and Berkley, it would be in no specific order:

Harvard (super, super slim chances but hey its Harvard)
Chicago (super slim chances - haven't seen many admissions with a 3.5ish GPA)
NYU (50/50 chance)
Columbia (50/50 chance)
Penn (55/45 chance)
UVA (60/40 chance)
Duke (60/40 chance)
Michigan (60/40 chance)
GULC (65/35 chance)
Temple (85+ chance)
Nova (85+ chance)
Boston U (65/35 chance)
UT Austin (60/40 chance)

My plan right now is to work on my personal statement, also take the GRE cause I want to tutor LSAT and GRE starting later this year (also would think about one of those dual JD/MBA programs but I haven't really looked into them). I have two letters of recommendation and I'll probably do the credential thing later this month. I plan to apply the first day applications open for each school, which I'm guessing is August for most of them. I'll probably do a "why x" essay for all of them.

[sev]

By the way, you're almost definitely getting into NYU. They're very splitter-friendly and admit almost everyone with above a 170/3.5. Check out the LSN graph if you haven't already.

[cavalier1138]

Temple and Nova are really just my safety schools. I chose them based on the number of students they send to philly BigLaw places like Dechert, Reed and Morgan. I have a few friends who graduated from Temple law the past few years who have gotten jobs there. Obviously, I understand that I would need to end up probably in the top 10% or higher in my class at Temple or Nova for those jobs compared to some more laxity at a T13 school.

You can't have "safety schools." Law school isn't undergrad, and you can't count on being in the top half of your class, let alone the top 10%.

Your list is far too pessimistic about your chances. You are almost 100% assured of admission to most of the T13 schools on your list (you might be waitlisted at Michigan for YP). You will likely get decent scholarship offers across the board, and the cheapest top school will be your best choice. You should not be applying to Temple or Nova (or for that matter, BU) for your goals.

[Shadow9314]

By the way, you're almost definitely getting into NYU. They're very splitter-friendly and admit almost everyone with above a 170/3.5. Check out the LSN graph if you haven't already.

I just took a look at those graphs, very encouraging. I would be super excited to go to NYU! Thanks.

Temple and Nova are really just my safety schools. I chose them based on the number of students they send to philly BigLaw places like Dechert, Reed and Morgan. I have a few friends who graduated from Temple law the past few years who have gotten jobs there. Obviously, I understand that I would need to end up probably in the top 10% or higher in my class at Temple or Nova for those jobs compared to some more laxity at a T13 school.

You can't have "safety schools." Law school isn't undergrad, and you can't count on being in the top half of your class, let alone the top 10%.

Your list is far too pessimistic about your chances. You are almost 100% assured of admission to most of the T13 schools on your list (you might be waitlisted at Michigan for YP). You will likely get decent scholarship offers across the board, and the cheapest top school will be your best choice. You should not be applying to Temple or Nova (or for that matter, BU) for your goals.

This is also very encouraging. If this is the case, what would you think about a ED application to Yale/Stanford? I feel like my GPA would put me out at those schools either way. Anyway, thank you for your advice. I'll save the money from the temple, nova, and BU apps and maybe add a few T14-T20 schools.

[albanach]

By the way, you're almost definitely getting into NYU. They're very splitter-friendly and admit almost everyone with above a 170/3.5. Check out the LSN graph if you haven't already.

I just took a look at those graphs, very encouraging. I would be super excited to go to NYU! Thanks.

Bear in mind that, as others said, the likes of UVA and Duke will place you well in the North East - indeed anywhere in the T-13 will do so. Therefore, as well as focusing on schools, you should give careful thought as to cost of attendance. If you take a look at this:



You could see offers that vary from $0 to $140k. And knocking $140k off of tuition probably becomes at least $200k after interest. In any sense, that's a significant amount of money. That's why it's important to blanket all those schools. Of course it may be that NYU offers you a similar amount of money and makes the decision easy, but be prepared to entertain other offers from the T-13 if they don't.

[sev]

If this is the case, what would you think about a ED application to Yale/Stanford? I feel like my GPA would put me out at those schools either way. Anyway, thank you for your advice. I'll save the money from the temple, nova, and BU apps and maybe add a few T14-T20 schools.

You're right about the GPA (again, check LSN) and I don't think YHS even have ED.

Congrats on your stellar LSAT score, but I'd recommend reading a lot of law school forums (not just this one) to get a good picture of how law school admissions work/how best to maximize your chances of getting a job out of law school.