Top Law Schools

Terrible GPA, great LSAT. However, I graduated undergrad over a decade ago so I'm hoping I can explain in an addendum that I've matured a lot, and worked full time through school which affected my grades, and the more recent number (LSAT) demonstrates where I am now.

What are my chances of a t14, and of scholarship offers?

..

boardcookies wrote:Your chances are great for both T14 and some money. Apply early, write a good PS, think about writing an addendum. I had similar numbers, a few years of work experience, lower LSAT, and I'm at a T10. I did not get a scholarship, but I got multiple full rides from T25's. You will undoubtedly do better than I did on that front. Good luck, and PM with any questions.

I disagree. http://mylsn.info/vf836c/

A lot of t14s have pretty strict GPA floors - they don't wanna take the hit of a 3.1 to their medians. Your 179 is amazing, and may shift some schools for you, but I wouldn't expect significant money.

However, the rest is still good advice. I'd still apply to every t14 school.

HennessyVSOP wrote:

boardcookies wrote:Your chances are great for both T14 and some money. Apply early, write a good PS, think about writing an addendum. I had similar numbers, a few years of work experience, lower LSAT, and I'm at a T10. I did not get a scholarship, but I got multiple full rides from T25's. You will undoubtedly do better than I did on that front. Good luck, and PM with any questions.

I disagree. http://mylsn.info/vf836c/

A lot of t14s have pretty strict GPA floors - they don't wanna take the hit of a 3.1 to their medians. Your 179 is amazing, and may shift some schools for you, but I wouldn't expect significant money.

However, the rest is still good advice. I'd still apply to every t14 school.

A 3.1 will hit them just as hard as a 3.4 if their median is a 3.5. The first part of this sentence is true but the rationale is incorrect.

Alttab wrote: A 3.1 will hit them just as hard as a 3.4 if their median is a 3.5. The first part of this sentence is true but the rationale is incorrect.

What part of the rationale is incorrect? lol

HennessyVSOP wrote:

Alttab wrote: A 3.1 will hit them just as hard as a 3.4 if their median is a 3.5. The first part of this sentence is true but the rationale is incorrect.

What part of the rationale is incorrect? lol

The definition of a median.

I think I just phrased it poorly.

Anyways OP, a 3.1 is gonna be tough in the t14, but I'd still apply to every one of them.

Hi everyone. I'm currently a junior at a top 20 school with a 3.0 GPA. Haven't taken the LSAT yet, but aiming for a 170+. I already have my recommenders picked out, and have had some pretty great internships. I worked at a corporate law firm summer after my freshman year, and the Public Defender's Office in San Francisco after my sophomore year (I have a pretty good rec from my boss there). I'm looking at internships where I can improve my writing skills for the following summer. I have a tentative paralegal job offer upon graduation for a year after which I plan on attending law school. I'm a little worried about my GPA - I studied outside the US (I'm still a citizen, moved when I was young) which was why I had a hard time adjusting to the education system. I'm considering the Northwestern ED package, and NYU, Penn and Columbia are other top contenders - chance me?

HennessyVSOP wrote:I think I just phrased it poorly.

Anyways OP, a 3.1 is gonna be tough in the t14, but I'd still apply to every one of them.

Maybe not every one, but I'd still shoot apps to most of them. That 179 will look good to some of them.

SHS wrote:Hi everyone. I'm currently a junior at a top 20 school with a 3.0 GPA. Haven't taken the LSAT yet, but aiming for a 170+. I already have my recommenders picked out, and have had some pretty great internships. I worked at a corporate law firm summer after my freshman year, and the Public Defender's Office in San Francisco after my sophomore year (I have a pretty good rec from my boss there). I'm looking at internships where I can improve my writing skills for the following summer. I have a tentative paralegal job offer upon graduation for a year after which I plan on attending law school. I'm a little worried about my GPA - I studied outside the US (I'm still a citizen, moved when I was young) which was why I had a hard time adjusting to the education system. I'm considering the Northwestern ED package, and NYU, Penn and Columbia are other top contenders - chance me?

Impossible to say without an LSAT score. Those softs are average (not a diss; they are good internships and experiences, but pretty typical by T14 standards).
Northwestern ED is highly unlikely, as are NYU, Penn, and Columbia acceptances given your GPA. Your best option at this point is to work as hard as you can to pull your GPA up before you graduate. I wouldn't even both studying for the LSAT until you have time in the summer or after gradian when it won't interfere with your courses. Pulling your GPA up to closer to a 3.2 in the next year and a half will give you a marginal shot at some T14s (although your odds are still well below 50%). A 3.2 with a 172+ LSAT will land you acceptances and chances for scholarships at some T20/non-T14 tier 1s like WUSTL, Vandy, and UT Austin. That probably isn't what you wanted to hear, but for now, the best advice is to just raise your GPA as much as possible before graduation and then focus on getting a stellar LSAT score to maximize your chances.

Anon-e-miss wrote:

SHS wrote:Hi everyone. I'm currently a junior at a top 20 school with a 3.0 GPA. Haven't taken the LSAT yet, but aiming for a 170+. I already have my recommenders picked out, and have had some pretty great internships. I worked at a corporate law firm summer after my freshman year, and the Public Defender's Office in San Francisco after my sophomore year (I have a pretty good rec from my boss there). I'm looking at internships where I can improve my writing skills for the following summer. I have a tentative paralegal job offer upon graduation for a year after which I plan on attending law school. I'm a little worried about my GPA - I studied outside the US (I'm still a citizen, moved when I was young) which was why I had a hard time adjusting to the education system. I'm considering the Northwestern ED package, and NYU, Penn and Columbia are other top contenders - chance me?

Impossible to say without an LSAT score. Those softs are average (not a diss; they are good internships and experiences, but pretty typical by T14 standards).
Northwestern ED is highly unlikely, as are NYU, Penn, and Columbia acceptances given your GPA. Your best option at this point is to work as hard as you can to pull your GPA up before you graduate. I wouldn't even both studying for the LSAT until you have time in the summer or after gradian when it won't interfere with your courses. Pulling your GPA up to closer to a 3.2 in the next year and a half will give you a marginal shot at some T14s (although your odds are still well below 50%). A 3.2 with a 172+ LSAT will land you acceptances and chances for scholarships at some T20/non-T14 tier 1s like WUSTL, Vandy, and UT Austin. That probably isn't what you wanted to hear, but for now, the best advice is to just raise your GPA as much as possible before graduation and then focus on getting a stellar LSAT score to maximize your chances.

The advice about bringing the GPA up is good, as is applying to places like WUSTL if the LSAT comes through, but the chancing here is way off. With a 3.2 (or 3.0 for that matter)/170+, you're definitely in the running for acceptances in the T14, and could even see some small scholarships. Of course nothing is guaranteed and they will want to make sure the rest of their application is spotless, but T14 regularly buy 170+ LSATs with sub-25th % GPAs. Some schools will have a hard GPA floor (and you're probably right on whether Penn, NYU, Columbia, or NU ED will work out here), but they won't get shut out of the T14 if they put together an otherwise strong application (assuming their LSAT actually reaches 170+).

Splitters have an uphill battle, but it's not insurmountable in the T14.

UVA2B wrote: Splitters have an uphill battle, but it's not insurmountable in the T14.

And thank goodness for that!

UVA2B wrote:

Anon-e-miss wrote:

SHS wrote:Hi everyone. I'm currently a junior at a top 20 school with a 3.0 GPA. Haven't taken the LSAT yet, but aiming for a 170+. I already have my recommenders picked out, and have had some pretty great internships. I worked at a corporate law firm summer after my freshman year, and the Public Defender's Office in San Francisco after my sophomore year (I have a pretty good rec from my boss there). I'm looking at internships where I can improve my writing skills for the following summer. I have a tentative paralegal job offer upon graduation for a year after which I plan on attending law school. I'm a little worried about my GPA - I studied outside the US (I'm still a citizen, moved when I was young) which was why I had a hard time adjusting to the education system. I'm considering the Northwestern ED package, and NYU, Penn and Columbia are other top contenders - chance me?

Impossible to say without an LSAT score. Those softs are average (not a diss; they are good internships and experiences, but pretty typical by T14 standards).
Northwestern ED is highly unlikely, as are NYU, Penn, and Columbia acceptances given your GPA. Your best option at this point is to work as hard as you can to pull your GPA up before you graduate. I wouldn't even both studying for the LSAT until you have time in the summer or after gradian when it won't interfere with your courses. Pulling your GPA up to closer to a 3.2 in the next year and a half will give you a marginal shot at some T14s (although your odds are still well below 50%). A 3.2 with a 172+ LSAT will land you acceptances and chances for scholarships at some T20/non-T14 tier 1s like WUSTL, Vandy, and UT Austin. That probably isn't what you wanted to hear, but for now, the best advice is to just raise your GPA as much as possible before graduation and then focus on getting a stellar LSAT score to maximize your chances.

The advice about bringing the GPA up is good, as is applying to places like WUSTL if the LSAT comes through, but the chancing here is way off. With a 3.2 (or 3.0 for that matter)/170+, you're definitely in the running for acceptances in the T14, and could even see some small scholarships. Of course nothing is guaranteed and they will want to make sure the rest of their application is spotless, but T14 regularly buy 170+ LSATs with sub-25th % GPAs. Some schools will have a hard GPA floor (and you're probably right on whether Penn, NYU, Columbia, or NU ED will work out here), but they won't get shut out of the T14 if they put together an otherwise strong application (assuming their LSAT actually reaches 170+).

Splitters have an uphill battle, but it's not insurmountable in the T14.

I'm a 0L so I'll defer to you on this to a degree, but I looked on MyLSN, and it looks like an applicant with a 3.0-3.09 and 170-180 indeed does have some chance of being shut out of the T14

Additionally, a couple of the applicants who were accepted at Michigan/Northwestern had 177s, which is obviously much more eye-catching than a 171.

As shown below, getting that GPA up to a 3.1-3.25 (which seems possible if the OP is a first-semester junior) will make their chances of being shut out of the T14 far less likely.


I know that there is some conventional wisdom that certain T14s (Northwestern, UVA, sorta Michigan) can be splitter-friendly, but based on these infographics, a 3.0 seems to be make acceptances pretty unlikely without a 175+ LSAT or exceptional softs (which OP does not have).


ETA: Worth noting that this is a relatively small sample size of applicants with this numbers profile

I shouldn't have said it was "way off." It's more that we don't have enough data to accurately guess (as you alluded to), combined with the rest of what I said about it being an uphill battle, but not insurmountable.

Really, yours was the more pessimist approach to the likelihood of admission in the T14, and mine was more optimistic because I have the benefit (and a bit of a detriment) of having anecdotal evidence to their chances. There's really no need to try to parse it any further (unless you still disagree on anything I've said).

UVA2B wrote:I shouldn't have said it was "way off." It's more that we don't have enough data to accurately guess (as you alluded to), combined with the rest of what I said about it being an uphill battle, but not insurmountable.

Really, yours was the more pessimist approach to the likelihood of admission in the T14, and mine was more optimistic because I have the benefit (and a bit of a detriment) of having anecdotal evidence to their chances. There's really no need to try to parse it any further (unless you still disagree on anything I've said).

Agreed

Thanks everyone, I have seen the table you posted before - I just wanted to get a better idea of how my softs would factor in. I worked on a couple of research projects at the PD's office, which were then taken on by the Research Unit, which will continue what I was doing - I might consider writing about that in my personal rec. I have also taken a practice LSAT cold, and got a 164, so I'm hoping there's room for improvement once I started studying for it. What would stand out as something exceptional to law schools? I'm also working on a novel which is a work in progress, and should be done roughly by graduation.

SHS wrote:Thanks everyone, I have seen the table you posted before - I just wanted to get a better idea of how my softs would factor in. I worked on a couple of research projects at the PD's office, which were then taken on by the Research Unit, which will continue what I was doing - I might consider writing about that in my personal rec. I have also taken a practice LSAT cold, and got a 164, so I'm hoping there's room for improvement once I started studying for it. What would stand out as something exceptional to law schools? I'm also working on a novel which is a work in progress, and should be done roughly by graduation.

What would stand out as exceptional to schools is a high LSAT score.