UK doctor Forum

[UKpeep]

Now, I probably won't do it but I am curious about what my chances would be to get into a T14 school? I am from the UK, I have a standard undergrad degree and a medical degree, I also have my postgrad surgical qualifications and am a surgical trainee (resident). I don't know where I am in terms of GPA as that isn't how it is done over here, my first degree was a 2.1 but medical degrees are also undergrad here but aren't classified, it's pass/fail overall. I don't know if surgical exams count for anything but overall only about 30% of people taking them pass, and they are pass/fail, not graded. My CV is well above average for a surgical trainee in my specialty which is the most competitive in the UK. Practice LSAT scores are 175+

[cavalier1138]

International GPAs are converted to a generic scale (superior, above average, etc.). If you were to actually score a 175+ on the LSAT, you'd be competitive anywhere, at least based on my understanding of what a 2:1 converts to in the LSAC report.

But I'm deeply confused about why a surgeon would want to move to a different country to get a totally different professional degree.

[UKpeep]

International GPAs are converted to a generic scale (superior, above average, etc.). If you were to actually score a 175+ on the LSAT, you'd be competitive anywhere, at least based on my understanding of what a 2:1 converts to in the LSAC report.

But I'm deeply confused about why a surgeon would want to move to a different country to get a totally different professional degree.

Many reasons for the degree. I will be doing it, it's just where, home or abroad. Quite a few doctors have law degrees, not loads, but it's certainly not unheard of.

What would be the chances of scholarship money?

[cavalier1138]

International GPAs are converted to a generic scale (superior, above average, etc.). If you were to actually score a 175+ on the LSAT, you'd be competitive anywhere, at least based on my understanding of what a 2:1 converts to in the LSAC report.

But I'm deeply confused about why a surgeon would want to move to a different country to get a totally different professional degree.

Many reasons for the degree. I will be doing it, it's just where, home or abroad. Quite a few doctors have law degrees, not loads, but it's certainly not unheard of.

What would be the chances of scholarship money?

It entirely depends on your actual LSAT and actual LSAC GPA designation. Come back when you have those.

And because I'm still confused, I'll just add that a JD is pretty useless if you don't want to practice law. So if you're just getting it as a supplemental degree, I think staying in the UK would probably be in your best interests.

[UVA2B]

You definitely have a shot at a top school if you can kill the LSAT, but cav has a point you should take pretty seriously. There is a drastic difference between the professional trainings in med school and law school, and to the extent the skillsets overlap in any career, there just aren't many (I'm hesitant to say none, but nothing comes immediately to mind where both degrees are being used) careers that would be using both degrees. Some can/will abandon one career for the other, but if that's not the case for you, you need to explain why you think you want both degrees. I'm hoping you just really don't like surgery (which is probably understandable if residency training in the UK is as painful in surgery as it is in the US) and want to move into a new career. Otherwise, don't go to law school.

[UKpeep]

I am mostly interested by HYS and probably wouldn't consider anyone else. So, I would just like a vague idea of chances? People on here talk about unicorn softs but what is considered a soft? Is being a surgeon a soft? Basically does being a surgeon give me an advantage that the pure numbers don't?

As to why, it's not really relevant, I am aware of what I can and can't use each degree for. I'm not going into anything blind.

[cavalier1138]

I am mostly interested by HYS and probably wouldn't consider anyone else. So, I would just like a vague idea of chances? People on here talk about unicorn softs but what is considered a soft? Is being a surgeon a soft? Basically does being a surgeon give me an advantage that the pure numbers don't?

As to why, it's not really relevant, I am aware of what I can and can't use each degree for. I'm not going into anything blind.

If you're exclusively looking at HYS, then scholarship calculations are need-based. And yes, being a doctor would be considered a soft. There are plenty of red flags raised by the "mostly interested in HYS" schtick, but if you have some covertly specific plan for your JD that requires HYS, go for it. If your real LSAT ends up where your practice tests have, then you'll probably be in fine shape.

[UKpeep]

I don't see why wanting HYS raises red flags?

[cavalier1138]

I don't see why wanting HYS raises red flags?

Because without any specific stated goals that require HYS, the debt level from those schools is usually prohibitive and unnecessary. It's also a sign of someone focusing on prestige-chasing. In general, when a 0L starts off with "I'm really interested in HYS," it's rare to see a situation where HYS would actually be the best course of action for that person.

[sparkytrainer]

I want to point out its extremely rare for HYS to take a 2:1 undergrad. In this case, it might be possible, but I have no idea why OP would want to.

Regardless, I think that OP might have a chance at H, but will certainly be out at YS. They just dont take 2:1s. Harvard occasionally does (like 1 or 2 a year, with 175+ LSAT scores).

Anyway, best of luck OP.

[UKpeep]

In terms of the 2.1 thing, I have 2 undergrad degrees so I don't know how that factors. I have actually emailed Harvard and Yale who both said I would be competitive but I wanted more opinions and competitive doesn't necessarily mean acceptance.

I'm not going to go to a lower ranked school in the US over high ranked UK schools so HYS is what I am interested in.

Anyway, the main thing that decides has been pointed out and it's money. If it's all need based at HYS I won't get it and I'm not willing to pay full price.

[sparkytrainer]

In terms of the 2.1 thing, I have 2 undergrad degrees so I don't know how that factors. I have actually emailed Harvard and Yale who both said I would be competitive but I wanted more opinions and competitive doesn't necessarily mean acceptance.

I'm not going to go to a lower ranked school in the US over high ranked UK schools so HYS is what I am interested in.

Anyway, the main thing that decides has been pointed out and it's money. If it's all need based at HYS I won't get it and I'm not willing to pay full price.

The one that count will be your first undergrad degree and its a 2:1. Further, why law? I know you know, but going back to law now in the UK you will be going back to undergraduate. Again. That will be 3 undergrad degrees. Seems very strange.

But yeah even if you got into Harvard, you aren't getting any $$$ so best of luck in the UK.

[UKpeep]

Not all first law degrees in the UK are undergrad.

[eck456]

I am mostly interested by HYS and probably wouldn't consider anyone else. So, I would just like a vague idea of chances? People on here talk about unicorn softs but what is considered a soft? Is being a surgeon a soft? Basically does being a surgeon give me an advantage that the pure numbers don't?

As to why, it's not really relevant, I am aware of what I can and can't use each degree for. I'm not going into anything blind.

Harvard at least has a weird number of British surgeons in various schools across campus - not sure about law but at least HKS and Public Health have ... I want to say 5? Across them that I personally have met or know of. So I don't know about YS but I don't know that it counts as a unicorn at H unless British doctors apply to all the other professional programs except law (which I'm willing to concede as a possibility). Doesnt mean you couldn't make a case for why you are uniquely qualified but it's not (imo) complete unicorn status - maybe just a really cool horse or something

[UKpeep]

Public health is a medical specialty so it makes sense for them to have a lot of doctors!

[pancakes3]

You're going to need a more compelling reason than "I'd be good at health law" to fully capitalize on your soft, especially since your health care experience is UK, Not American.