IB + PE > UPenn JD/MBA Forum

[huglife]

Hey all,

I'm currently an associate at a distressed private equity fund that is fairly well known and manages ~$5 - 10bn AUM. At the end of my 2 (potentially 3 years) I will likely get booted out to business school. My background prior to PE was in a restructuring group at a well regarded IB (Evercore, PJT, Moelis, Houlihan).

I did NOT go to a target school and have an abysmal GPA < 2.7 (I was a 2 sport athlete).

Looking at the law school numbers profile it looks like Penn Law has taken a couple people with < 3.0 GPAs in recent years. Do you think it's worth a shot at even applying to the JD/MBA at UPenn? I would go ED in R1 and don't really care if I have to pay sticker.

[RedPurpleBlue]

First, you should articulate why you even want a JD. It sounds like an MBA would best suit you, given your work experience and desire for an MBA.

Second, you would need an incredibly high LSAT to get into Penn with a 2.7, so this conversation is pretty much pointless until you have an LSAT score.

Third, paying sticker is almost always an awful idea for a law degree. $300,000 doesn't seem like that much when you look at big law salaries, but it's going to be soul crushing to pay back.

[huglife]

First, you should articulate why you even want a JD. It sounds like an MBA would best suit you, given your work experience and desire for an MBA.

Second, you would need an incredibly high LSAT to get into Penn with a 2.7, so this conversation is pretty much pointless until you have an LSAT score.

Third, paying sticker is almost always an awful idea for a law degree. $300,000 doesn't seem like that much when you look at big law salaries, but it's going to be soul crushing to pay back.

I have 0 interest in going into big law. I would potentially do a summer in a bankruptcy group but would never go full-time. The JD compliments my work experience and fits well with distressed oriented hedge funds that are active in in-court restructurings. Granted the core 1L classes do nothing for me but it does fit my interests and goals.

[PB&J.D.]

First, you should articulate why you even want a JD. It sounds like an MBA would best suit you, given your work experience and desire for an MBA.

Second, you would need an incredibly high LSAT to get into Penn with a 2.7, so this conversation is pretty much pointless until you have an LSAT score.

Third, paying sticker is almost always an awful idea for a law degree. $300,000 doesn't seem like that much when you look at big law salaries, but it's going to be soul crushing to pay back.

I have 0 interest in going into big law. I would potentially do a summer in a bankruptcy group but would never go full-time. The JD compliments my work experience and fits well with distressed oriented hedge funds that are active in in-court restructurings. Granted the core 1L classes do nothing for me but it does fit my interests and goals.

I have a friend that just graduated from a similarly-ranked school without the MBA and has been trying to do this (distressed HF and all, no PE but more IB experience), but has gotten very little traction because of the JD. If you're not open to getting full-time experience in a restructuring group, I think you're better off going with the MBA alone. *this is the extent of my anecdotal knowledge*

[cavalier1138]

I have 0 interest in going into big law. I would potentially do a summer in a bankruptcy group but would never go full-time. The JD compliments my work experience and fits well with distressed oriented hedge funds that are active in in-court restructurings. Granted the core 1L classes do nothing for me but it does fit my interests and goals.

Granted, I know nothing about IB. But I'm confused about how you're claiming that the JD is helpful. Are you saying that a JD actually makes you more marketable in this field, or are you just hypothesizing that since legal problems crop up, a JD must be a good thing to have in your pocket? If it's the latter, then don't go to law school.

[huglife]

I have 0 interest in going into big law. I would potentially do a summer in a bankruptcy group but would never go full-time. The JD compliments my work experience and fits well with distressed oriented hedge funds that are active in in-court restructurings. Granted the core 1L classes do nothing for me but it does fit my interests and goals.

Granted, I know nothing about IB. But I'm confused about how you're claiming that the JD is helpful. Are you saying that a JD actually makes you more marketable in this field, or are you just hypothesizing that since legal problems crop up, a JD must be a good thing to have in your pocket? If it's the latter, then don't go to law school.

Haha it's the former. I have worked with enough lawyers and know enough people that went to Penn Law (and other T14) to know that just getting a JD does instill some wizardly level of legal knowledge.

It's a marketing/peacocking. It's like penn law kids doing the "Wharton certificate". Ya you took a class but you don't get the diploma and network. I would audit law classes anyways so why not just commit and do the full thing

[huglife]

First, you should articulate why you even want a JD. It sounds like an MBA would best suit you, given your work experience and desire for an MBA.

Second, you would need an incredibly high LSAT to get into Penn with a 2.7, so this conversation is pretty much pointless until you have an LSAT score.

Third, paying sticker is almost always an awful idea for a law degree. $300,000 doesn't seem like that much when you look at big law salaries, but it's going to be soul crushing to pay back.

I have 0 interest in going into big law. I would potentially do a summer in a bankruptcy group but would never go full-time. The JD compliments my work experience and fits well with distressed oriented hedge funds that are active in in-court restructurings. Granted the core 1L classes do nothing for me but it does fit my interests and goals.

I have a friend that just graduated from a similarly-ranked school without the MBA and has been trying to do this (distressed HF and all, no PE but more IB experience), but has gotten very little traction because of the JD. If you're not open to getting full-time experience in a restructuring group, I think you're better off going with the MBA alone. *this is the extent of my anecdotal knowledge*

VERY different situation. It's hard to go buy side out of an MBA without the prior experience, let alone a JD.

That said I know people who have done T14 > Big Law > IB RX > Hedge Fund. But only guys who are restructuring.

[PB&J.D.]

First, you should articulate why you even want a JD. It sounds like an MBA would best suit you, given your work experience and desire for an MBA.

Second, you would need an incredibly high LSAT to get into Penn with a 2.7, so this conversation is pretty much pointless until you have an LSAT score.

Third, paying sticker is almost always an awful idea for a law degree. $300,000 doesn't seem like that much when you look at big law salaries, but it's going to be soul crushing to pay back.

I have 0 interest in going into big law. I would potentially do a summer in a bankruptcy group but would never go full-time. The JD compliments my work experience and fits well with distressed oriented hedge funds that are active in in-court restructurings. Granted the core 1L classes do nothing for me but it does fit my interests and goals.

I have a friend that just graduated from a similarly-ranked school without the MBA and has been trying to do this (distressed HF and all, no PE but more IB experience), but has gotten very little traction because of the JD. If you're not open to getting full-time experience in a restructuring group, I think you're better off going with the MBA alone. *this is the extent of my anecdotal knowledge*

VERY different situation. It's hard to go buy side out of an MBA without the prior experience, let alone a JD.

That said I know people who have done T14 > Big Law > IB RX > Hedge Fund. But only guys who are restructuring.

Gotcha. I think he's on the second path now, but that makes sense. Good luck with Penn!

[corporatemandaorbust]

How did you break into a top IB and then PE firm with a low GPA and a non-target school?

[YellowWolf]

How did you break into a top IB and then PE firm with a low GPA and a non-target school?

frat boi? haha

[gargleblaster]

How did you break into a top IB and then PE firm with a low GPA and a non-target school?

frat boi? haha

he said ath-uh-lete

[huglife]

How did you break into a top IB and then PE firm with a low GPA and a non-target school?

frat boi? haha

he said ath-uh-lete

THE FRATTIEST ATHLETE. I got lucky initially with a friend at a bank and then leveraged recommendations from seniors that I worked with and liked me. I've gotten VERY lucky and frankly I'm good at my job which helps.

[kartelite]

Hey all,

My background prior to PE was in a restructuring group at a well regarded IB (Evercore, PJT, Moelis, Houlihan).

PJT was just formed two years ago so I doubt you worked there before your current job if you've been there close to two years..

With your background, an MBA from Penn or any comparable school will set you up fine for the positions you're looking for. I did a JD/MBA, and got interviews for several restructuring/distressed positions (also had finance background), but so did a bunch of my MBA classmates. Having some legal background is undoubtedly helpful, but with your GPA honestly I think it would be tough to go somewhere like Penn, so just enjoy your two years of b school.

[huglife]

Hey all,

My background prior to PE was in a restructuring group at a well regarded IB (Evercore, PJT, Moelis, Houlihan).

PJT was just formed two years ago so I doubt you worked there before your current job if you've been there close to two years..

With your background, an MBA from Penn or any comparable school will set you up fine for the positions you're looking for. I did a JD/MBA, and got interviews for several restructuring/distressed positions (also had finance background), but so did a bunch of my MBA classmates. Having some legal background is undoubtedly helpful, but with your GPA honestly I think it would be tough to go somewhere like Penn, so just enjoy your two years of b school.

I mean.. I could say BX Restructuring but its the same thing, same people. I could have also left my group off (Lazard).

Interesting though on the other note, fits most of what I've seen and been told. The JD isn't the "magic answer" to getting back into the distressed world after grad school but from talking to headhunters, etc. there are some firms that "prefer" or "give credit to" that background. Whether or not that credit puts you above a regular MBA, who knows. Probably not based on your experience.

Also agree on my gpa and background. Though I'd rather stay in the industry than go back for just an MBA outside HBS or GSB

[Hi-So - ArshavinFan]

Hey all,

My background prior to PE was in a restructuring group at a well regarded IB (Evercore, PJT, Moelis, Houlihan).

PJT was just formed two years ago so I doubt you worked there before your current job if you've been there close to two years..

With your background, an MBA from Penn or any comparable school will set you up fine for the positions you're looking for. I did a JD/MBA, and got interviews for several restructuring/distressed positions (also had finance background), but so did a bunch of my MBA classmates. Having some legal background is undoubtedly helpful, but with your GPA honestly I think it would be tough to go somewhere like Penn, so just enjoy your two years of b school.

I mean.. I could say BX Restructuring but its the same thing, same people. I could have also left my group off (Lazard).

Interesting though on the other note, fits most of what I've seen and been told. The JD isn't the "magic answer" to getting back into the distressed world after grad school but from talking to headhunters, etc. there are some firms that "prefer" or "give credit to" that background. Whether or not that credit puts you above a regular MBA, who knows. Probably not based on your experience.

Also agree on my gpa and background. Though I'd rather stay in the industry than go back for just an MBA outside HBS or GSB

MBA MBA MBA - your GPA is too low, and your work experience is not impressive enough tbh. I would say if you got a 175+, go for NYU they like banking/consulting exp ( it helped me at least and a white non urm friend ( but he also went to West point).

I'm actually pretty surprised you're even considering law, given that the exits from Lazard are out of this world world and from PE - are even more fucking incredible. Also given the fact that you worked at what is possibly the BEST restructuring group in the world at Lazard - im super confused. If anything theres gotta be like at least 2-3 hedge funds that will take you since you s"should have the special technical skills necessary that most other bankers in other groups wouldnt have. Are are you sick of distressed investments in general?

[huglife]

Hey all,

My background prior to PE was in a restructuring group at a well regarded IB (Evercore, PJT, Moelis, Houlihan).

PJT was just formed two years ago so I doubt you worked there before your current job if you've been there close to two years..

With your background, an MBA from Penn or any comparable school will set you up fine for the positions you're looking for. I did a JD/MBA, and got interviews for several restructuring/distressed positions (also had finance background), but so did a bunch of my MBA classmates. Having some legal background is undoubtedly helpful, but with your GPA honestly I think it would be tough to go somewhere like Penn, so just enjoy your two years of b school.

I mean.. I could say BX Restructuring but its the same thing, same people. I could have also left my group off (Lazard).

Interesting though on the other note, fits most of what I've seen and been told. The JD isn't the "magic answer" to getting back into the distressed world after grad school but from talking to headhunters, etc. there are some firms that "prefer" or "give credit to" that background. Whether or not that credit puts you above a regular MBA, who knows. Probably not based on your experience.

Also agree on my gpa and background. Though I'd rather stay in the industry than go back for just an MBA outside HBS or GSB

MBA MBA MBA - your GPA is too low, and your work experience is not impressive enough tbh. I would say if you got a 175+, go for NYU they like banking/consulting exp ( it helped me at least and a white non urm friend ( but he also went to West point).

I'm actually pretty surprised you're even considering law, given that the exits from Lazard are out of this world world and from PE - are even more fucking incredible. Also given the fact that you worked at what is possibly the BEST restructuring group in the world at Lazard - im super confused. If anything theres gotta be like at least 2-3 hedge funds that will take you since you s"should have the special technical skills necessary that most other bankers in other groups wouldnt have. Are are you sick of distressed investments in general?

I am not considering law, I like the value proposition of the JD/MBA even if its only aesthetics for what I do in distressed PE. I would never ever ever be a lawyer. I'd have to take a 30% haircut to my current year comp to be a 1st year big law associate. I also never said I was at Lazard, just that I may not have listed my bank specifically.

I mean I have M&A experience, I have restructuring experience and I will have 2-3 yrs of Distressed PE + Distressed Credit HF (we do both) by the time I'd "matriculate".

There is also an intangible aspect, which I am more than willing to admit. I am more lenient on my math of if this is economically worth it because I do want to do the program. Call it FoMo or whatever you want.

But alas I'm irrational. I wouldn't go to Stern or NYU Law let alone the combo of both. I will likely get the offer to stay on at my current fund or can look to go elsewhere without the MBA or JD/MBA which I would most definitely do before I even sent in an application to NYU.

The only places I'd go to school are HBS, GSB and the Wharton JD/MBA. If I was backed into a corner I'd consider just Wharton or maybe Columbia. Outside that circle I just stay in the industry

[corporatemandaorbust]

Hey all,

My background prior to PE was in a restructuring group at a well regarded IB (Evercore, PJT, Moelis, Houlihan).

PJT was just formed two years ago so I doubt you worked there before your current job if you've been there close to two years..

With your background, an MBA from Penn or any comparable school will set you up fine for the positions you're looking for. I did a JD/MBA, and got interviews for several restructuring/distressed positions (also had finance background), but so did a bunch of my MBA classmates. Having some legal background is undoubtedly helpful, but with your GPA honestly I think it would be tough to go somewhere like Penn, so just enjoy your two years of b school.

I mean.. I could say BX Restructuring but its the same thing, same people. I could have also left my group off (Lazard).

Interesting though on the other note, fits most of what I've seen and been told. The JD isn't the "magic answer" to getting back into the distressed world after grad school but from talking to headhunters, etc. there are some firms that "prefer" or "give credit to" that background. Whether or not that credit puts you above a regular MBA, who knows. Probably not based on your experience.

Also agree on my gpa and background. Though I'd rather stay in the industry than go back for just an MBA outside HBS or GSB

MBA MBA MBA - your GPA is too low, and your work experience is not impressive enough tbh. I would say if you got a 175+, go for NYU they like banking/consulting exp ( it helped me at least and a white non urm friend ( but he also went to West point).

I'm actually pretty surprised you're even considering law, given that the exits from Lazard are out of this world world and from PE - are even more fucking incredible. Also given the fact that you worked at what is possibly the BEST restructuring group in the world at Lazard - im super confused. If anything theres gotta be like at least 2-3 hedge funds that will take you since you s"should have the special technical skills necessary that most other bankers in other groups wouldnt have. Are are you sick of distressed investments in general?

I am not considering law, I like the value proposition of the JD/MBA even if its only aesthetics for what I do in distressed PE. I would never ever ever be a lawyer. I'd have to take a 30% haircut to my current year comp to be a 1st year big law associate. I also never said I was at Lazard, just that I may not have listed my bank specifically.

I mean I have M&A experience, I have restructuring experience and I will have 2-3 yrs of Distressed PE + Distressed Credit HF (we do both) by the time I'd "matriculate".

There is also an intangible aspect, which I am more than willing to admit. I am more lenient on my math of if this is economically worth it because I do want to do the program. Call it FoMo or whatever you want.

But alas I'm irrational. I wouldn't go to Stern or NYU Law let alone the combo of both. I will likely get the offer to stay on at my current fund or can look to go elsewhere without the MBA or JD/MBA which I would most definitely do before I even sent in an application to NYU.

The only places I'd go to school are HBS, GSB and the Wharton JD/MBA. If I was backed into a corner I'd consider just Wharton or maybe Columbia. Outside that circle I just stay in the industry

I think you are underrating NYU - especially NYU law (which is ranked higher than UPenn Law btw)

[cavalier1138]

OP: are you familiar with the expression "Beggars can't be choosers"? NYU is even a stretch with your GPA, and you definitely can't afford to be snobby for whatever ridiculous reasons you've formulated.

[huglife]

Hey all,

My background prior to PE was in a restructuring group at a well regarded IB (Evercore, PJT, Moelis, Houlihan).

PJT was just formed two years ago so I doubt you worked there before your current job if you've been there close to two years..

With your background, an MBA from Penn or any comparable school will set you up fine for the positions you're looking for. I did a JD/MBA, and got interviews for several restructuring/distressed positions (also had finance background), but so did a bunch of my MBA classmates. Having some legal background is undoubtedly helpful, but with your GPA honestly I think it would be tough to go somewhere like Penn, so just enjoy your two years of b school.

I mean.. I could say BX Restructuring but its the same thing, same people. I could have also left my group off (Lazard).

Interesting though on the other note, fits most of what I've seen and been told. The JD isn't the "magic answer" to getting back into the distressed world after grad school but from talking to headhunters, etc. there are some firms that "prefer" or "give credit to" that background. Whether or not that credit puts you above a regular MBA, who knows. Probably not based on your experience.

Also agree on my gpa and background. Though I'd rather stay in the industry than go back for just an MBA outside HBS or GSB

MBA MBA MBA - your GPA is too low, and your work experience is not impressive enough tbh. I would say if you got a 175+, go for NYU they like banking/consulting exp ( it helped me at least and a white non urm friend ( but he also went to West point).

I'm actually pretty surprised you're even considering law, given that the exits from Lazard are out of this world world and from PE - are even more fucking incredible. Also given the fact that you worked at what is possibly the BEST restructuring group in the world at Lazard - im super confused. If anything theres gotta be like at least 2-3 hedge funds that will take you since you s"should have the special technical skills necessary that most other bankers in other groups wouldnt have. Are are you sick of distressed investments in general?

I am not considering law, I like the value proposition of the JD/MBA even if its only aesthetics for what I do in distressed PE. I would never ever ever be a lawyer. I'd have to take a 30% haircut to my current year comp to be a 1st year big law associate. I also never said I was at Lazard, just that I may not have listed my bank specifically.

I mean I have M&A experience, I have restructuring experience and I will have 2-3 yrs of Distressed PE + Distressed Credit HF (we do both) by the time I'd "matriculate".

There is also an intangible aspect, which I am more than willing to admit. I am more lenient on my math of if this is economically worth it because I do want to do the program. Call it FoMo or whatever you want.

But alas I'm irrational. I wouldn't go to Stern or NYU Law let alone the combo of both. I will likely get the offer to stay on at my current fund or can look to go elsewhere without the MBA or JD/MBA which I would most definitely do before I even sent in an application to NYU.

The only places I'd go to school are HBS, GSB and the Wharton JD/MBA. If I was backed into a corner I'd consider just Wharton or maybe Columbia. Outside that circle I just stay in the industry

I think you are underrating NYU - especially NYU law (which is ranked higher than UPenn Law btw)

You are totally missing the point. I have 0 intention of being a lawyer so the fact that NYU Law is ranked better than Penn Law doesn't matter to me at all. The NYU MBA is worthless to me.

I'm likely going to get a promote offer at my current fund or can go to another fund after my contract is up.

I'm not a "beggar" because I don't NEED the JD. I can see value to me under certain circumstances but that is about it.

One other note. Assuming you want to do m&a as your username suggests... those are by far the WORST lawyers. If you are actually doing a NYU JD/MBA go to banking. I've worked with most of the "prestigious" M&A lawyers and am not impressed. Also anytime an investment bank is your "client" your life sucks

[corporatemandaorbust]

What do you mean those are "the worse lawyers"?

Also, while I agree H/S/W are better MBA programs than NYU, I find it ridiculous for you to say the NYU MBA would be worthless for you.

[huglife]

What do you mean those are "the worse lawyers"?

Also, while I agree H/S/W are better MBA programs than NYU, I find it ridiculous for you to say the NYU MBA would be worthless for you.

Autocorrect on my blackberry.

Because I am not going to IB and they place 0 people back into buyside.

[BlendedUnicorn]

It's tough to see how the JD makes any sense for you and wouldn't just be a giant waste of time and money but if you really want to get into Penn or HLS you're going to need a monster LSAT. Honestly, I wouldn't even bother with that step given how little a JD will help you.

[corporatemandaorbust]

What do you mean those are "the worse lawyers"?

Also, while I agree H/S/W are better MBA programs than NYU, I find it ridiculous for you to say the NYU MBA would be worthless for you.

Autocorrect on my blackberry.

Because I am not going to IB and they place 0 people back into buyside.

Even Harvard/Yale JD place 0 people into the buyside, yet you seem to want to pursue that degree. You make no sense.

[huglife]

What do you mean those are "the worse lawyers"?

Also, while I agree H/S/W are better MBA programs than NYU, I find it ridiculous for you to say the NYU MBA would be worthless for you.

Autocorrect on my blackberry.

Because I am not going to IB and they place 0 people back into buyside.

Even Harvard/Yale JD place 0 people into the buyside, yet you seem to want to pursue that degree. You make no sense.

I'm not doing a JD on a standalone basis but FYI the Harvard JD/MBA has amazing buyside placement.

You want to be a lawyer but are doing an MBA. You make no sense?

[huglife]

It's tough to see how the JD makes any sense for you and wouldn't just be a giant waste of time and money but if you really want to get into Penn or HLS you're going to need a monster LSAT. Honestly, I wouldn't even bother with that step given how little a JD will help you.

Haha I in no way have a shot at HLS. I know that so it's a non-starter.

It is a mild-waste of time given I don't want to be a lawyer but the coursework past 1L does interest me and it helps from a resume/profile basis down the line. So while yes it's a waste as I'll never be a lawyer. Not waste for other reasons. At least to me.