ARMY FLEP Applicant 163 3.92 Forum

[Hintergedanke]

Currently applying this upcoming admissions cycle with a 163 3.92. I will be submitting apps starting in September while concurrently applying to the Army FLEP Program. Shooting for lower t14 but understand this is unlikely. If not accepted into FLEP I will retake and separate from the Army and use the GI Bill for Law School. Based upon 2016 FLEP statistics I am competitive.

Any advice on best ED plan to snag a t14?

Softs include:
Army Officer
College Athlete
1st Generation College Student
M.A 3.9 GPA
3 Years WE between Army / Previous Career in Coaching a College Sport

End goal is to go to the best school that the Army would pay for.

[UVA2B]

If you get FLEP, this seems like a great play at UVA ED. If you don't get FLEP, definitely retake, but since you'll have GI Bill, UVA would still be a solid call since it's free, so ED might still get you there.

Otherwise you can ED GULC if UVA didn't work out and almost assuredly get that. If FLEP/100% GI Bill+YRP, it's a decent back-up plan. Those are your best ED options in the T14 IMO. Michigan might also play ball as the other major state school.

ETA: Homerism aside, UVA is one of the more receptive EDs in the T14. Obviously an ED at any of the lower T14 with a GPA above median is possible.

[UVA2B]

The data pool for ED applicants in your range of LSAT/GPA is tiny so as to make it basically useless, but here is some data points on how people in your LSAT/GPA range have done in recent cycles.

[KissMyAxe]

I'd say retake in October period. UVA ED is not a bad option, especially free, but why limit yourself? You have a baller GPA that is good enough for anywhere in the country. Right now, schools have said they want to improve vet attendance. With a 170 (maybe even slightly lower), I'd be surprised with those softs if you didn't get at least one of HYS. We have an excellent compendium of LSAT prep materials here, definitely worth using to get an LSAT to match that great GPA. UVA is good, but free HYS is better.

[UVA2B]

I'd say retake in October period. UVA ED is not a bad option, especially free, but why limit yourself? You have a baller GPA that is good enough for anywhere in the country. Right now, schools have said they want to improve vet attendance. With a 170 (maybe even slightly lower), I'd be surprised with those softs if you didn't get at least one of HYS. We have an excellent compendium of LSAT prep materials here, definitely worth using to get an LSAT to match that great GPA. UVA is good, but free HYS is better.

I don't disagree in the least, but with the caveat that prestige and quality of outcomes matters much less in this case where the career is already (potentially) set in stone. HYS is better than UVA and if that option is on the table, there would be no reason to take UVA over HYS (although UVA will in certain cases entertain making a scholarship offer into a living stipend, something HYS with GI BIll+YRP won't be able to match). So if it's HYS for free vs. UVA for free, enjoy HYS. But if HYS for free vs. UVA with a $15k living stipend on top of free, UVA since you already know your outcome will be the same. This is all assuming a retake that puts them in a range where OP would be in a position to get that living stipend, but that could change the calculus as well.

[Hintergedanke]

Wow, Thanks for all the great advice. My line of reasoning is more in with UVA2B due to the fact that FLEP ensures a solid job. I will be at 12 years time in service before I could even think about separating if I choose FLEP. I am looking to maximize quality of education/networking/prestige post military by working to grab a t14 with borderline stats.

If denied I will commit everything to a retake without a doubt. The upside for pushing for a retake with FLEP is little. Even when it comes to being accepted into the program. I have seen people with 170+ not get it. FLEP pays for law school and you receive your full salary while attending so roughly 70k at this point in my career in regards to the stipend comments.

How many EDs can I squeeze in? I was thinking something along the line of: UVA-->GULC-->PENN/MICH.

Does the ED for GULC actually increase acceptance chances? Ive seen conflicting data on this. GULC seems to carry a decent amount of weight in the Military/FED Gov world.

UVA is number 1 though for me due to several reasons but it looks like my chances are about 50%

[Bridgeport]

Anecdotal but I know an Army captain who is currently at Harvard with a 164 + similar GPA to yours. You can definitely do better than UVA.

[UVA2B]

Anecdotal but I know an Army captain who is currently at Harvard with a 164 + similar GPA to yours. You can definitely do better than UVA.

Already fought this battle, but this is a pointless distinction. An Army JAG from UVA with 12 years service is functionally similar to an Army JAG from Harvard with 12 years of service.

When this applicant applies to the DOJ (or other similar entity), they aren't going back to, "oh, you went to Harvard(UVA)? That changes everything!" Going to Harvard for free is better than going to UVA for free if your outcome isn't guaranteed. But if it is, and that guarantee will last 6-10 years, it matters decidedly less.

[Hintergedanke]

Thanks again for the advice.

The Army Captain at Harvard with a 164 likely had certain experiences/accomplishments that really set him/her apart. Not all Army careers are the same. I have been successful but not on the level that would push me to a top 6. This statement does give me hope for the lower T14 though.

"An Army JAG from UVA with 12 years service is functionally similar to an Army JAG from Harvard with 12 years of service". Has been expressed to me from multiple sources so I am inclined to agree. If my outcome becomes non guaranteed I will give it my all to push my score to HYS.

Is it possible to have 4 EDs in one admissions cycle? I am trying to attempt to create a timeline and contingency plans. I truly appreciate the responses.

[Dcc617]

Were I you, and I once basically was, I'd say fuck FLEP, retake, and go on the GI bill. JAG sort of sucks. If you go on the GI bill you can actually be free to pursue the career you want. And it's free. And you won't have to retire from the army. And if you go corporate you'll make way more.

I decided not to flep, retook, improved my lsat by double digits, and now go to Harvard for free. And I don't have to drill and can tell asshole military people to fuck all the way off. It's cool.

[Hintergedanke]

Dcc617 I would like to hear more about why JAG sucks. I understand the first 4-5 years can be pretty low level work but hope that would it be made up in assisting soldiers/advising commanders/kicking the shit bags out. The freedom to pursue your own career is attractive. Have you met any JAGs that love it? I have gotten mixed responses and you are not the only one to say it is not worth it. I just do not want to not give it a shot to be accepted and be funneled into the Big Law grinder and then hate life/have regrets. Taking the green weenie has come easier with time but that may wear thin after a couple of more years.

[TheSpanishMain]

Dcc617 I would like to hear more about why JAG sucks. I understand the first 4-5 years can be pretty low level work but hope that would it be made up in assisting soldiers/advising commanders/kicking the shit bags out. The freedom to pursue your own career is attractive. Have you met any JAGs that love it? I have gotten mixed responses and you are not the only one to say it is not worth it. I just do not want to not give it a shot to be accepted and be funneled into the Big Law grinder and then hate life/have regrets. Taking the green weenie has come easier with time but that may wear thin after a couple of more years.

It probably just depends on how you view being in the Army generally. Does being in the Army suck? (Answer: sometimes) Obviously there are people who do four years, hate every minute of it and can't wait to ETS. There are other people who thrive and love it and twenty years flies by.

Most of the JAGs I met have been reasonably happy...or if they weren't, it was because they didn't like the Army in general, not because there was anything particularly wrong with being a JAG. And it's not like most people in NYC BigLaw don't come to hate it too. At least JAG comes with a pension and a sweet haircut.