Super (!) Splitter - Help assessing options Forum

[nocturnalsolace]

Hi. I finish my undergrad this June and, due to a series of extremely unfortunate, personal issues that occurred during my first two years, my GPA is horrendous (2.35). I'm a Psychology and History double major with a minor in Political Science. In my final two years, my GPA has been 4.0 (over 24 courses) and my LSAT is 179. I have decent softs (I've been published twice with a third under review and sit on a committee dedicated to building medical child care facilities in 3rd world nations) but don't have involvement in any internships or outstanding leadership positions in volunteer work. Realistically, does my terrible GPA hinder my chances at getting into any T14 school? Where (and when) should I be looking to apply? I have been considering the possibility of enhancing my work/internship experience in the interim and applying in the future but I'm not entirely sure what the best approach for someone in my situation would be.

In summation:
GPA: 2.35 (4.0 in final 2 years - does this offset anything or do schools only care about overall GPA?)
LSAT: 179
Two publications but otherwise nothing (too) noteworthy in terms of softs.

Any advice is appreciated, thanks!

[grades??]

distance yourself from your undergrad gpa. I think lsat scores are good for 4 years. So go work for a minimum of 2 years at least.

[nocturnalsolace]

distance yourself from your undergrad gpa. I think lsat scores are good for 4 years. So go work for a minimum of 2 years at least.

Thanks for the input. Would a graduate degree also help create this distance or is work experience typically more valuable?

[grades??]

distance yourself from your undergrad gpa. I think lsat scores are good for 4 years. So go work for a minimum of 2 years at least.

Thanks for the input. Would a graduate degree also help create this distance or is work experience typically more valuable?

I went the grad school route myself but also worked on the side during grad school. Do what you want, but spend a few years getting away from the GPA. You will be evaluated still on the GPA, but you can at least tell a story like see all these wonderful experiences I now bring with me type of deal.

[RedPurpleBlue]

distance yourself from your undergrad gpa. I think lsat scores are good for 4 years. So go work for a minimum of 2 years at least.

Thanks for the input. Would a graduate degree also help create this distance or is work experience typically more valuable?

I went the grad school route myself but also worked on the side during grad school. Do what you want, but spend a few years getting away from the GPA. You will be evaluated still on the GPA, but you can at least tell a story like see all these wonderful experiences I now bring with me type of deal.

I'd recommend that OP works instead. A graduate school GPA isn't going to do any more help than OP getting a 4.0 in the past two years of college, because it won't count in his LSDAS GPA. He's clearly demonstrated he has academic potential with 2yrs of 4.0, so a graduate degree wouldn't even be useful as a signifier for that. I'd go get some real WE and then apply ED to Northwestern. They are splitter friendly, and if you've got any real shot at getting admitted, let alone big money, then it's probably going to be at Northwestern.

[nocturnalsolace]

distance yourself from your undergrad gpa. I think lsat scores are good for 4 years. So go work for a minimum of 2 years at least.

Thanks for the input. Would a graduate degree also help create this distance or is work experience typically more valuable?

I went the grad school route myself but also worked on the side during grad school. Do what you want, but spend a few years getting away from the GPA. You will be evaluated still on the GPA, but you can at least tell a story like see all these wonderful experiences I now bring with me type of deal.

I'd recommend that OP works instead. A graduate school GPA isn't going to do any more help than OP getting a 4.0 in the past two years of college, because it won't count in his LSDAS GPA. He's clearly demonstrated he has academic potential with 2yrs of 4.0, so a graduate degree wouldn't even be useful as a signifier for that. I'd go get some real WE and then apply ED to Northwestern. They are splitter friendly, and if you've got any real shot at getting admitted, let alone big money, then it's probably going to be at Northwestern.

I appreciate the advice, thanks! Do you think CCN would be entirely out of the question, even with work experience?

[landshoes]

There's no need to work just in case you don't get in somewhere.

Apply everywhere and pray. If you don't get a good deal, take some time and apply again (or decide not to go).

[goldenbear2020]

Any chance you can delay graduation and keep pulling up that GPA with A's? Finishing over 2.5 may help a lot.

[lawpotato]

Any chance you can visit your school's registrar's office, explain the situation that made you get bad grades, and get a retroactive withdrawal. I went through a similar situation and was able to get a quarter's worth of classes removed from my transcript bringing up my gpa significantly. Might be something to look into.

[AJordan]

distance yourself from your undergrad gpa. I think lsat scores are good for 4 years. So go work for a minimum of 2 years at least.

Thanks for the input. Would a graduate degree also help create this distance or is work experience typically more valuable?

I went the grad school route myself but also worked on the side during grad school. Do what you want, but spend a few years getting away from the GPA. You will be evaluated still on the GPA, but you can at least tell a story like see all these wonderful experiences I now bring with me type of deal.

I'd recommend that OP works instead. A graduate school GPA isn't going to do any more help than OP getting a 4.0 in the past two years of college, because it won't count in his LSDAS GPA. He's clearly demonstrated he has academic potential with 2yrs of 4.0, so a graduate degree wouldn't even be useful as a signifier for that. I'd go get some real WE and then apply ED to Northwestern. They are splitter friendly, and if you've got any real shot at getting admitted, let alone big money, then it's probably going to be at Northwestern.

I appreciate the advice, thanks! Do you think CCN would be entirely out of the question, even with work experience?

I hate to use absolutes but I'm in a similar spot and I think that, yes, they are entirely out of the question. In fact, the only schools that are really possible t14 are, this cycle, nwestern, uva, and MAYBE Michigan. As you get lower in the rankings you should have more success. WashU for instance would be, imo, your first chance at a likely acceptance.

[nocturnalsolace]

Any chance you can delay graduation and keep pulling up that GPA with A's? Finishing over 2.5 may help a lot.

I can definitely do this, yeah. I'm trying to decide whether it's actually beneficial enough to warrant doing over getting more work experience, though. With an additional 12 classes, assuming I obtain 4.0 in all of them, I could finish somewhere around a 2.8 according to my school's GPA calculator, but that's approximately $12,000 in tuition.

Any chance you can visit your school's registrar's office, explain the situation that made you get bad grades, and get a retroactive withdrawal. I went through a similar situation and was able to get a quarter's worth of classes removed from my transcript bringing up my gpa significantly. Might be something to look into.

I actually have an appointment with an advisor this week to discuss this. I'm cautiously optimistic but, if approved, my GPA would likely improve to ~2.9 according to my school's GPA calculator, in which case taking an additional 12 courses, and obtaining 4.0 in all of them, would push my GPA to 3.22.

I hate to use absolutes but I'm in a similar spot and I think that, yes, they are entirely out of the question. In fact, the only schools that are really possible t14 are, this cycle, nwestern, uva, and MAYBE Michigan. As you get lower in the rankings you should have more success. WashU for instance would be, imo, your first chance at a likely acceptance.

I'm only interested in the absolutes honestly. I much prefer a brutally honest response as it paints a much better picture of where I actually stand.

I think if I'm able to retroactively withdraw from more than a semester worth of courses, it's probably in my best interest to soak the additional $12,000 in tuition and try to push my GPA above a 3.0. I'm not entirely sure how competitive a 3.22 GPA (best case) with a 179 LSAT is, especially for CCN, but it's definitely better than the situation I'm in now and will probably be more beneficial than a years worth of work experience.

Thanks for the replies, I appreciate the suggestions/information!

[AJordan]

Any chance you can delay graduation and keep pulling up that GPA with A's? Finishing over 2.5 may help a lot.

I can definitely do this, yeah. I'm trying to decide whether it's actually beneficial enough to warrant doing over getting more work experience, though. With an additional 12 classes, assuming I obtain 4.0 in all of them, I could finish somewhere around a 2.8 according to my school's GPA calculator, but that's approximately $12,000 in tuition.

Any chance you can visit your school's registrar's office, explain the situation that made you get bad grades, and get a retroactive withdrawal. I went through a similar situation and was able to get a quarter's worth of classes removed from my transcript bringing up my gpa significantly. Might be something to look into.

I actually have an appointment with an advisor this week to discuss this. I'm cautiously optimistic but, if approved, my GPA would likely improve to ~2.9 according to my school's GPA calculator, in which case taking an additional 12 courses, and obtaining 4.0 in all of them, would push my GPA to 3.22.

I hate to use absolutes but I'm in a similar spot and I think that, yes, they are entirely out of the question. In fact, the only schools that are really possible t14 are, this cycle, nwestern, uva, and MAYBE Michigan. As you get lower in the rankings you should have more success. WashU for instance would be, imo, your first chance at a likely acceptance.

I'm only interested in the absolutes honestly. I much prefer a brutally honest response as it paints a much better picture of where I actually stand.

I think if I'm able to retroactively withdraw from more than a semester worth of courses, it's probably in my best interest to soak the additional $12,000 in tuition and try to push my GPA above a 3.0. I'm not entirely sure how competitive a 3.22 GPA (best case) with a 179 LSAT is, especially for CCN, but it's definitely better than the situation I'm in now and will probably be more beneficial than a years worth of work experience.

Thanks for the replies, I appreciate the suggestions/information!

Columbia, this cycle seems like they have a 3.3 GPA floor for 173+ splitters if you best fit their LSN graph. Though a 180/3.29 is in so maybe that guy is your muse.

[trebekismyhero]

If you can get your GPA above a 3, you'll be in good shape at most of the lower t14. CCN would still be a reach.

[Thomas Hagan, ESQ.]

If you can get your GPA above a 3, you'll be in good shape at most of the lower t14. CCN would still be a reach.

What? I thought OP already graduated UG haha

[trebekismyhero]

If you can get your GPA above a 3, you'll be in good shape at most of the lower t14. CCN would still be a reach.

What? I thought OP already graduated UG haha

It sounded like they hadn't yet because they were thinking about taking more classes and still talking to registrar

[34iplaw]

Id still apply to CLS and NYU since I don't think there is zero chance. It's still unlikely and you shouldn't count or plan on it but stranger things have happened I suppose.

I'd try to crack 3.0 if you can and get WE. When using LSN, use a broad range since there won't be enough data on your scores to make terribly meaningful conclusions.

[Desert Fox]

I wouldn't stay in school wasting money just trying to your GPA up. It'll take forever to get it anywhere good. I'm not really sure a school will look more kindly on a 2.9 Super super senior than a guy with a 2.3 with 60 contiguous credits of 4.0.

The bigger problem is you'll get dogshit scholarships and law school isn't worth 300k at a t14 or 150k at a TTTier 1.

Find a different career.

[Npret]

I wouldn't stay in school wasting money just trying to your GPA up. It'll take forever to get it anywhere good. I'm not really sure a school will look more kindly on a 2.9 Super super senior than a guy with a 2.3 with 60 contiguous credits of 4.0.

The bigger problem is you'll get dogshit scholarships and law school isn't worth 300k at a t14 or 150k at a TTTier 1.

Find a different career.

I agree continuing undergrad is a waste of time and money and so is graduate school for law.
Unless you have family money, I agree law school is going to be too expensive anywhere.
You could apply and see what happens but don't go deeply into debt for law school.

[emkay625]

Any chance you can delay graduation and keep pulling up that GPA with A's? Finishing over 2.5 may help a lot.

I can definitely do this, yeah. I'm trying to decide whether it's actually beneficial enough to warrant doing over getting more work experience, though. With an additional 12 classes, assuming I obtain 4.0 in all of them, I could finish somewhere around a 2.8 according to my school's GPA calculator, but that's approximately $12,000 in tuition.

Any chance you can visit your school's registrar's office, explain the situation that made you get bad grades, and get a retroactive withdrawal. I went through a similar situation and was able to get a quarter's worth of classes removed from my transcript bringing up my gpa significantly. Might be something to look into.

I actually have an appointment with an advisor this week to discuss this. I'm cautiously optimistic but, if approved, my GPA would likely improve to ~2.9 according to my school's GPA calculator, in which case taking an additional 12 courses, and obtaining 4.0 in all of them, would push my GPA to 3.22.

I hate to use absolutes but I'm in a similar spot and I think that, yes, they are entirely out of the question. In fact, the only schools that are really possible t14 are, this cycle, nwestern, uva, and MAYBE Michigan. As you get lower in the rankings you should have more success. WashU for instance would be, imo, your first chance at a likely acceptance.

I'm only interested in the absolutes honestly. I much prefer a brutally honest response as it paints a much better picture of where I actually stand.

I think if I'm able to retroactively withdraw from more than a semester worth of courses, it's probably in my best interest to soak the additional $12,000 in tuition and try to push my GPA above a 3.0. I'm not entirely sure how competitive a 3.22 GPA (best case) with a 179 LSAT is, especially for CCN, but it's definitely better than the situation I'm in now and will probably be more beneficial than a years worth of work experience.

Thanks for the replies, I appreciate the suggestions/information!

A few things. I would delay graduation for an entire year. Take 15 hours each semester—as many as you can at a community college. So like take 6 hours at your university, then take 9 at a cc. Cheaper, easier, counts just as much towards your LSDAS GPA.

Second, it is absolutely worth delaying a year to do this. Going from a 2.3 to a 3.22 is huge. This is not even up for debate.

Delay graduation a year. Appeal and try to get some of those previous classes off of your transcript. Get 30 more hours of As.

[NotAGolfer]

Any chance you can delay graduation and keep pulling up that GPA with A's? Finishing over 2.5 may help a lot.

I can definitely do this, yeah. I'm trying to decide whether it's actually beneficial enough to warrant doing over getting more work experience, though. With an additional 12 classes, assuming I obtain 4.0 in all of them, I could finish somewhere around a 2.8 according to my school's GPA calculator, but that's approximately $12,000 in tuition.

Any chance you can visit your school's registrar's office, explain the situation that made you get bad grades, and get a retroactive withdrawal. I went through a similar situation and was able to get a quarter's worth of classes removed from my transcript bringing up my gpa significantly. Might be something to look into.

I actually have an appointment with an advisor this week to discuss this. I'm cautiously optimistic but, if approved, my GPA would likely improve to ~2.9 according to my school's GPA calculator, in which case taking an additional 12 courses, and obtaining 4.0 in all of them, would push my GPA to 3.22.

I hate to use absolutes but I'm in a similar spot and I think that, yes, they are entirely out of the question. In fact, the only schools that are really possible t14 are, this cycle, nwestern, uva, and MAYBE Michigan. As you get lower in the rankings you should have more success. WashU for instance would be, imo, your first chance at a likely acceptance.

I'm only interested in the absolutes honestly. I much prefer a brutally honest response as it paints a much better picture of where I actually stand.

I think if I'm able to retroactively withdraw from more than a semester worth of courses, it's probably in my best interest to soak the additional $12,000 in tuition and try to push my GPA above a 3.0. I'm not entirely sure how competitive a 3.22 GPA (best case) with a 179 LSAT is, especially for CCN, but it's definitely better than the situation I'm in now and will probably be more beneficial than a years worth of work experience.

Thanks for the replies, I appreciate the suggestions/information!

Columbia, this cycle seems like they have a 3.3 GPA floor for 173+ splitters if you best fit their LSN graph. Though a 180/3.29 is in so maybe that guy is your muse.

This is me. If you have specific questions, lmk.

[twiix]

Any chance you can delay graduation and keep pulling up that GPA with A's? Finishing over 2.5 may help a lot.

I can definitely do this, yeah. I'm trying to decide whether it's actually beneficial enough to warrant doing over getting more work experience, though. With an additional 12 classes, assuming I obtain 4.0 in all of them, I could finish somewhere around a 2.8 according to my school's GPA calculator, but that's approximately $12,000 in tuition.

Any chance you can visit your school's registrar's office, explain the situation that made you get bad grades, and get a retroactive withdrawal. I went through a similar situation and was able to get a quarter's worth of classes removed from my transcript bringing up my gpa significantly. Might be something to look into.

I actually have an appointment with an advisor this week to discuss this. I'm cautiously optimistic but, if approved, my GPA would likely improve to ~2.9 according to my school's GPA calculator, in which case taking an additional 12 courses, and obtaining 4.0 in all of them, would push my GPA to 3.22.

I hate to use absolutes but I'm in a similar spot and I think that, yes, they are entirely out of the question. In fact, the only schools that are really possible t14 are, this cycle, nwestern, uva, and MAYBE Michigan. As you get lower in the rankings you should have more success. WashU for instance would be, imo, your first chance at a likely acceptance.

I'm only interested in the absolutes honestly. I much prefer a brutally honest response as it paints a much better picture of where I actually stand.

I think if I'm able to retroactively withdraw from more than a semester worth of courses, it's probably in my best interest to soak the additional $12,000 in tuition and try to push my GPA above a 3.0. I'm not entirely sure how competitive a 3.22 GPA (best case) with a 179 LSAT is, especially for CCN, but it's definitely better than the situation I'm in now and will probably be more beneficial than a years worth of work experience.

Thanks for the replies, I appreciate the suggestions/information!

A few things. I would delay graduation for an entire year. Take 15 hours each semester—as many as you can at a community college. So like take 6 hours at your university, then take 9 at a cc. Cheaper, easier, counts just as much towards your LSDAS GPA.

Second, it is absolutely worth delaying a year to do this. Going from a 2.3 to a 3.22 is huge. This is not even up for debate.

Delay graduation a year. Appeal and try to get some of those previous classes off of your transcript. Get 30 more hours of As.

While the advice of raising your GPA isn't bad, don't go to school for another year just to get up to CCN's GPA floor. That advice is bad. There are plenty of other options available for super splitters. Even if you did get to their floor you'd end up paying damn near sticker.

[emkay625]

Any chance you can delay graduation and keep pulling up that GPA with A's? Finishing over 2.5 may help a lot.

I can definitely do this, yeah. I'm trying to decide whether it's actually beneficial enough to warrant doing over getting more work experience, though. With an additional 12 classes, assuming I obtain 4.0 in all of them, I could finish somewhere around a 2.8 according to my school's GPA calculator, but that's approximately $12,000 in tuition.

Any chance you can visit your school's registrar's office, explain the situation that made you get bad grades, and get a retroactive withdrawal. I went through a similar situation and was able to get a quarter's worth of classes removed from my transcript bringing up my gpa significantly. Might be something to look into.

I actually have an appointment with an advisor this week to discuss this. I'm cautiously optimistic but, if approved, my GPA would likely improve to ~2.9 according to my school's GPA calculator, in which case taking an additional 12 courses, and obtaining 4.0 in all of them, would push my GPA to 3.22.

I hate to use absolutes but I'm in a similar spot and I think that, yes, they are entirely out of the question. In fact, the only schools that are really possible t14 are, this cycle, nwestern, uva, and MAYBE Michigan. As you get lower in the rankings you should have more success. WashU for instance would be, imo, your first chance at a likely acceptance.

I'm only interested in the absolutes honestly. I much prefer a brutally honest response as it paints a much better picture of where I actually stand.

I think if I'm able to retroactively withdraw from more than a semester worth of courses, it's probably in my best interest to soak the additional $12,000 in tuition and try to push my GPA above a 3.0. I'm not entirely sure how competitive a 3.22 GPA (best case) with a 179 LSAT is, especially for CCN, but it's definitely better than the situation I'm in now and will probably be more beneficial than a years worth of work experience.

Thanks for the replies, I appreciate the suggestions/information!

A few things. I would delay graduation for an entire year. Take 15 hours each semester—as many as you can at a community college. So like take 6 hours at your university, then take 9 at a cc. Cheaper, easier, counts just as much towards your LSDAS GPA.

Second, it is absolutely worth delaying a year to do this. Going from a 2.3 to a 3.22 is huge. This is not even up for debate.

Delay graduation a year. Appeal and try to get some of those previous classes off of your transcript. Get 30 more hours of As.

While the advice of raising your GPA isn't bad, don't go to school for another year just to get up to CCN's GPA floor. That advice is bad. There are plenty of other options available for super splitters. Even if you did get to their floor you'd end up paying damn near sticker.

OP's math says staying another year could raise her/his GPA by between .3 and .4. That's huge. She/he should absolutely stay. It's not like it's some marginal improvement. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think a person with a 2.9 and a person with a 3.3 will have vastly different options.

[cavalier1138]

OP's math says staying another year could raise her/his GPA by between .3 and .4. That's huge. She/he should absolutely stay. It's not like it's some marginal improvement. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think a person with a 2.9 and a person with a 3.3 will have vastly different options.

That math was (assuming I'm reading this correctly) based on the assumption that the OP would get the school to retroactively withdraw them from the problem classes. If that's not possible, then I doubt an extra year is going to make that big a dent in the GPA.

[rowdy]

It also looks like Michigan has a GPA floor of 3.0 - maybe not but based on LSN, crossing the 3.0 line seems to make a difference in outcomes. I'd almost say the difference between 2.9 and 3.01 is bigger than the difference between 3.01 and 3.22 at several T14 - I could be wrong, that's just what LSN looks like at a glance.

[rowdy]

Side note - I don't think OP has a chance at Northwestern ED at current GPA. LSN has no instances of anyone under 25th percentile getting the ED scholarship.