2.54 GPA, 179 LSAT, International - Chances? Forum

[trytrytry2017]

About to graduate in May this year from a top25. Two friends and I started an undergraduate film production club in junior year, had 10+ board members and 35 crews (to shoot on set), completed 4 micro films and were uploaded on youtube. Didn't like my major in business but it was too late for me to switch to philosophy at the point, later I declared philosophy as my minor. Gpa is soooooo low mainly because of depression, family issue, couldn't get up and go to classes, the whole family stuff just got better recently.
Wondering if I have even a shot in T14???
Thanks!

[Thomas Hagan, ESQ.]

About to graduate in May this year from a top25. Female, Asian, international. Two friends and I started an undergraduate film production club in junior year, had 10+ board members and 35 crews (to shoot on set), completed 4 micro films and were uploaded on youtube. Didn't like my major in business but it was too late for me to switch to philosophy at the point, later I declared philosophy as my minor. I wrote a philosophical novel but it's in chinese so there is no use in application i think. Gpa is soooooo low mainly because of depression, family issue, couldn't get up and go to classes, the whole family stuff just got better recently.
Wondering if I have even a shot in T14??? I think this low gpa can't get me anywhere in decent graduate school besides law school, it's really my last chance in continuing education.......
Thanks!

Do you even want to go to law school? Or is it just because you want to continue your education and you feel law school is your only chance..?

[trytrytry2017]

Thanks for reply. I want to attend law school since legal courses contain philosophical topics while being vocational at some level (gotta find a job after all haha) and learning the hard skill when young is a good strategic move in a long run, and my family stuff was about lawsuits...

[cavalier1138]

Thanks for reply. I want to attend law school since legal courses contain philosophical topics while being vocational at some level (gotta find a job after all haha) and learning the hard skill when young is a good strategic move in a long run, and my family stuff was about lawsuits...

That's all pretty generic. Do you actually want to be a lawyer?

[trytrytry2017]

Yeah, I'm wondering what are my chances?

[Thomas Hagan, ESQ.]

I really hate to be that guy but something feels weird about this.

You claim a bunch of factors may have influenced your GPA but how come they didn't affect your ability to do all these other wondering accomplishments (writing a novel, filming, etc.). It just seems like school might not be your thing and if that's the case, law school might be rough.

As for chances, I can't really say. Your LSAT SHOULD open a lot of doors but your GPA might close them.

My bet would be that you would be accepted and receive money from some T20s.

[mudiverse]

Jesus christ the amount of cynicism can be overwhelming on TLS. OP isn't asking if law school is the right career path and it's kind of silly to constantly be prodding someone about their secret motivations and raising your eyebrows at her desire for lawyering. If you feel you have some obligation to drive 0Ls away from a career option or play pretend career counselor you might be spending too much time here.

That LSAT is insane and I wouldn't be surprised if you got into some of the lower T-14. I think if you dream of HYS you might have trouble some since 2.54 is really not up to par for that level barring any phenomenal softs. mylsn.info is a resource you should look into as well but I definitely think you should cover the entire T14 list and see what shakes out, it may surprise you.

[Thomas Hagan, ESQ.]

Jesus christ the amount of cynicism can be overwhelming on TLS. OP isn't asking if law school is the right career path and it's kind of silly to constantly be prodding someone about their secret motivations and raising your eyebrows at her desire for lawyering. If you feel you have some obligation to drive 0Ls away from a career option or play pretend career counselor you might be spending too much time here.

That LSAT is insane and I wouldn't be surprised if you got into some of the lower T-14. I think if you dream of HYS you might have trouble some since 2.54 is really not up to par for that level barring any phenomenal softs. mylsn.info is a resource you should look into as well but I definitely think you should cover the entire T14 list and see what shakes out, it may surprise you.

I'm almost never cynical on here and I agree that a 179 is an amazing score but that 2.54 might make the T-14s a little tougher than you think. ICYMI, Cornell just rejected a perfect score this year with a much higher GPA.

[Zoroaster]

@trytrytry2017,

I've got no advice, but wish to encourage you to apply to all the schools you wish to apply to because you're in an incredible position despite the uncertainty clouding around it.

All that I could suggest is diversify your choices among the range of schools that you wish to attend and allow any schools that offer money to be a part of your consideration.

I wish I could provide you with any more certain advice but keep your dreams alive and pursue the goals that you wish to achieve for yourself. Thanks for sharing your situation!

[trytrytry2017]

I really hate to be that guy but something feels weird about this.

You claim a bunch of factors may have influenced your GPA but how come they didn't affect your ability to do all these other wondering accomplishments (writing a novel, filming, etc.). It just seems like school might not be your thing and if that's the case, law school might be rough.

As for chances, I can't really say. Your LSAT SHOULD open a lot of doors but your GPA might close them.

My bet would be that you would be accepted and receive money from some T20s.

Didn't like school cuz of my major, but i ended up loving philosophy stuff and college experience got much better overall. If i could get into a decent t20 or even t14 I could finally learn something I like and maybe get a worthy career. It feels good that I have chance at t20 lol

[trytrytry2017]

Jesus christ the amount of cynicism can be overwhelming on TLS. OP isn't asking if law school is the right career path and it's kind of silly to constantly be prodding someone about their secret motivations and raising your eyebrows at her desire for lawyering. If you feel you have some obligation to drive 0Ls away from a career option or play pretend career counselor you might be spending too much time here.

That LSAT is insane and I wouldn't be surprised if you got into some of the lower T-14. I think if you dream of HYS you might have trouble some since 2.54 is really not up to par for that level barring any phenomenal softs. mylsn.info is a resource you should look into as well but I definitely think you should cover the entire T14 list and see what shakes out, it may surprise you.

Thanks for defending me I felt awkward being asked twice about my motivation... i know that HYS is completely out and me getting into a t14 is already too satisfied in my situation. My plan is to transfer after y1 haha. I will definitely apply to the entire T14 and thanks for the advising.

[Thomas Hagan, ESQ.]

I really hate to be that guy but something feels weird about this.

You claim a bunch of factors may have influenced your GPA but how come they didn't affect your ability to do all these other wondering accomplishments (writing a novel, filming, etc.). It just seems like school might not be your thing and if that's the case, law school might be rough.

As for chances, I can't really say. Your LSAT SHOULD open a lot of doors but your GPA might close them.

My bet would be that you would be accepted and receive money from some T20s.

Didn't like school cuz of my major, but i ended up loving philosophy stuff and college experience got much better overall. If i could get in a decent t20 or even t14 I could finally learn something I like and maybe get a worthy career. It feels good that I have chance at t20 lol

Makes sense! 179 is an amazing score so you should be good at T20 but definitely try for the T14s as well. I wouldn't be surprised if Wash U, which is always loving high LSATs, gives you money.

Good luck!

[trytrytry2017]

@trytrytry2017,

I've got no advice, but wish to encourage you to apply to all the schools you wish to apply to because you're in an incredible position despite the uncertainty clouding around it.

All that I could suggest is diversify your choices among the range of schools that you wish to attend and allow any schools that offer money to be a part of your consideration.

I wish I could provide you with any more certain advice but keep your dreams alive and pursue the goals that you wish to achieve for yourself. Thanks for sharing your situation!

Thanks for the support! I will apply to a bunch of school and hopefully one or two law school will accept me lol, your right diversifying is essential.

[trytrytry2017]

I really hate to be that guy but something feels weird about this.

You claim a bunch of factors may have influenced your GPA but how come they didn't affect your ability to do all these other wondering accomplishments (writing a novel, filming, etc.). It just seems like school might not be your thing and if that's the case, law school might be rough.

As for chances, I can't really say. Your LSAT SHOULD open a lot of doors but your GPA might close them.

My bet would be that you would be accepted and receive money from some T20s.

Didn't like school cuz of my major, but i ended up loving philosophy stuff and college experience got much better overall. If i could get in a decent t20 or even t14 I could finally learn something I like and maybe get a worthy career. It feels good that I have chance at t20 lol

Makes sense! 179 is an amazing score so you should be good at T20 but definitely try for the T14s as well. I wouldn't be surprised if Wash U, which is always loving high LSATs, gives you money.

Good luck!

Thanks! I thought that I would have to stay in school for another semester to raise up my gpa to 2.7 because no decent law school could possibly consider me.. t20 is good at my situation

[cavalier1138]

Thanks! I thought that I would have to stay in school for another semester to raise up my gpa to 2.7 because no decent law school could possibly consider me.. t20 is good at my situation

There is effectively no difference between a 2.54 and a 2.7 for law school admissions purposes at that tier. Any school that admits you will be doing so on the basis of your LSAT score alone.

Incidentally, the reason that the non-0Ls here have been asking you about your interest in being a lawyer is because you have only articulated a vague interest in philosophy and making money. Telling you that law school is a great idea would be like telling someone with a passing interest in biology that they should go to med school. If you do get in to a decent school, you will likely be paying sticker. Even if you do get a scholarship, you'll still end up in six figures of debt for a career that you don't appear to really be that interested in. Does that sound like a solid plan so far?

On top of all that, as an international student, you really need to go to a T14 school to have a solid chance of getting a firm to sponsor you for a visa after school, and your chances at the T14 are a coin-flip at best. The reason that people have been "cynical" is because you're making an immature and irrational decision that could seriously affect the rest of your life. Law school is not for those who "gotta find a job after all haha". It's for people who want to be lawyers.

[trytrytry2017]

Thanks! I thought that I would have to stay in school for another semester to raise up my gpa to 2.7 because no decent law school could possibly consider me.. t20 is good at my situation

There is effectively no difference between a 2.54 and a 2.7 for law school admissions purposes at that tier. Any school that admits you will be doing so on the basis of your LSAT score alone.

Incidentally, the reason that the non-0Ls here have been asking you about your interest in being a lawyer is because you have only articulated a vague interest in philosophy and making money. Telling you that law school is a great idea would be like telling someone with a passing interest in biology that they should go to med school. If you do get in to a decent school, you will likely be paying sticker. Even if you do get a scholarship, you'll still end up in six figures of debt for a career that you don't appear to really be that interested in. Does that sound like a solid plan so far?

On top of all that, as an international student, you really need to go to a T14 school to have a solid chance of getting a firm to sponsor you for a visa after school, and your chances at the T14 are a coin-flip at best. The reason that people have been "cynical" is because you're making an immature and irrational decision that could seriously affect the rest of your life. Law school is not for those who "gotta find a job after all haha". It's for people who want to be lawyers.

Your concern is reasonable from someone analyzing what I have been put in the description of myself. But my interest in philosophy is not just temporary if you need to know, I started to read philosophy book and literatures since 12. The reason why i didn't major in it at first was lack of courage, in the second half of junior year I talked to the dean of philosophy department in which I learned that the only job after philosophy was teaching, and I wasn't looking for it. And if i switched major i would have to stay at school for one more yr. By the time I didn't know anything about law school, let alone the preparation for it... I started to concern law degree when junior year almost done... And getting Scholarship is not necessary for me... What exactly do you mean by "seriously affect the rest of your life'?

[ToGetIntoTheBoysHole]

What exactly do you mean by "seriously affect the rest of your life'?

He is talking about the money/time that people put into law school and how without an actual job or at least an idea of a job in mind going into law school is not such a great idea. Saying you like philosophy is cool, but what does that mean as far as a potential career goes? What do you see yourself doing with your J.D. once you graduate. If you want to pursue academics, shoot for the best school you could get in to (although IMO anything under HYS has diminishing returns) or pursue a Masters/Ph.D. (probably the better option, but probably not possible with your GPA). You have a few things going for you, a very high LSAT and I am assuming parents who would cover your tuition, so if you've put some thought into whether you want to really be a lawyer (not just, I like philosophy and law school is kind of similar) then you'll probably have some pretty good options. Again, this all depends on where you want to live/what you want to do.

[trytrytry2017]

What exactly do you mean by "seriously affect the rest of your life'?

He is talking about the money/time that people put into law school and how without an actual job or at least an idea of a job in mind going into law school is not such a great idea. Saying you like philosophy is cool, but what does that mean as far as a potential career goes? What do you see yourself doing with your J.D. once you graduate. If you want to pursue academics, shoot for the best school you could get in to (although IMO anything under HYS has diminishing returns) or pursue a Masters/Ph.D. (probably the better option, but probably not possible with your GPA). You have a few things going for you, a very high LSAT and I am assuming parents who would cover your tuition, so if you've put some thought into whether you want to really be a lawyer (not just, I like philosophy and law school is kind of similar) then you'll probably have some pretty good options. Again, this all depends on where you want to live/what you want to do.

So far I'm enjoying real estate law course , if it counts as potential-lawyer-should-act-package... It's true I don't know what exactly my subconscious think or how to predict future, at least I know study law school could really be a life changing opportunity for me in a positive way. I love traveling and engage in smart talking, being a lawyer can meet my expectation in this way. Again, thanks for bringing up these concerns, they are real and genuine.

[cavalier1138]

What exactly do you mean by "seriously affect the rest of your life'?

He is talking about the money/time that people put into law school and how without an actual job or at least an idea of a job in mind going into law school is not such a great idea. Saying you like philosophy is cool, but what does that mean as far as a potential career goes? What do you see yourself doing with your J.D. once you graduate. If you want to pursue academics, shoot for the best school you could get in to (although IMO anything under HYS has diminishing returns) or pursue a Masters/Ph.D. (probably the better option, but probably not possible with your GPA). You have a few things going for you, a very high LSAT and I am assuming parents who would cover your tuition, so if you've put some thought into whether you want to really be a lawyer (not just, I like philosophy and law school is kind of similar) then you'll probably have some pretty good options. Again, this all depends on where you want to live/what you want to do.

So far I'm enjoying real estate law course , if it counts as potential-lawyer-should-act-package... It's true I don't know what exactly my subconscious think or how to predict future, at least I know study law school could really be a life changing opportunity for me in a positive way. I love traveling and engage in smart talking, being a lawyer can meet my expectation in this way. Again, thanks for bringing up these concerns, they are real and genuine.

Actually, only a small percentage of lawyers get to travel for their work, and if you're at a big firm (which you would need to be in order to get that visa sponsorship), you also won't be talking with clients for the first few years. I really think you need to do some more research into what a lawyer's job actually entails, because if you're excited about travel and "smart talk", you're going to be sorely disappointed.

But what I do get from your posts is that you really love philosophy. That's awesome, and you should see whether there is anything you can do towards a PhD in the field, because that's the degree you clearly want. Your GPA may hold you back, but speak with your professors and see what they recommend doing.

[Incrementalist]

I just wanted to say congrats on your lsat score and I wish you much success in whatever happens. I hope your stars align and fall where you want them to.

[thegrayman]

I think you might be pleasantly surprised at the schools you get into with that score. Some schools are suckers for a godlike LSAT, regardless of gpa. Best of luck.

[DolnaRay]

Don't apply to T14 for start. You can chant a hail mary and apply to Northwestern.

Apply to T 30-50, also consider some good Tier 2 schools in the region you want to practise.

But please do not at any cost apply at schools outside top 100. Attending a tier 3 school wont do you the least bit of good. Don't do yourself this disfavour.

I pray my friend that you get into a T1.

Edit : http://lawschoolnumbers.com/pammie0415 this person's an international that got accepted into a decent few schools.
But keep in mind this was quite a few years back. International applicant pool probably wasn't so competitive back then. As of today - there are many internationals with 175 LSATs and GPA's rated as Superior or AA...

[A. Nony Mouse]

Don't apply to T14 for start. You can chant a hail mary and apply to Northwestern.

Apply to T 30-50, also consider some good Tier 2 schools in the region you want to practise.

But please do not at any cost apply at schools outside top 100. Attending a tier 3 school wont do you the least bit of good. Don't do yourself this disfavour.

I pray my friend that you get into a T1.

Please look at the dates on threads you're replying to.

[DolnaRay]

Don't apply to T14 for start. You can chant a hail mary and apply to Northwestern.

Apply to T 30-50, also consider some good Tier 2 schools in the region you want to practise.

But please do not at any cost apply at schools outside top 100. Attending a tier 3 school wont do you the least bit of good. Don't do yourself this disfavour.

I pray my friend that you get into a T1.

Please look at the dates on threads you're replying to.

Oops! My bad.

It's just I am also an international with a bad GPA, so I just saw his/her post - this is something very personal to me. Couldnt help from replying.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Got it. No worries.